What is a Traditionalist Catholic

[Frosty]

Well, I will tell you that my eight year old who celebrated first Holy Communion a few months ago was not instructed on how to confess or examine his conscience at all. He only knows the Hail Mary because I taught him, not because any in the Church tried to. He only knows what a sin is because I told him, not because he was ever instructed about it. He was also not instructed on how to actually confess, and the first time he went he had no idea what a confessional was or where to go or what to say. Did those children in the pre-Vatican II Church know so little?

It seems to me that if something changed in the sacrament to achieve what you are now experiencing it had no effect on my child. My boy would be at least as ignorant and lost as any preconciliar child would have been if not for the interference of his parents.

Oh, and by the way, at least there were apparently confession lines back then. Right now at our local churches there are just bunches of people sitting around, with no apparent way of knowing who is next. I sat for an hour one time in a small chapel next to the reconciliation rooms in a Church here locally, and I was the third or fourth person there. People just jumped up and ran into the room when the door opened, and nobody had any idea when it was their “turn” to go. About forty minutes in a rather nasty argument broke out between a couple of little old ladies about cutting. I guess there was more to confess after that. But, all in all, I wonder if any positive change has really been effected in confession over the last few decades.

It is indeed a shame that your son was not properly prepared for the Sacrament of Reconciliation. Someone most assuredly abrogated his or her responsibility. However, if you are insinuating that this is the norm everywhere, I disagree strongly. In the Catholic School System where I taught for thirty five years of my life, the teachers responsible for those children and the local pastors went out of their way to ensure that the kids were prepared. How much of that preparation really sinks into the individual child’s conciousness and continues to mature with the child is another issue.
I’ve never belonged to a parish with a reconciliation room. There have always been the same old confessional boxes that were around when I was young. Once in awhile, a line might form [especially during lent], but usually people wait in the pews. I have never noticed a problem with anyone jumping up or arguing about who geys to go next. In my city, we have four-way stop signs all over the place so perhaps we are simply used to waitng our turn?

 

[Brennan_Doherty]

It is indeed a shame that your son was not properly prepared for the Sacrament of Reconciliation. Someone most assuredly abrogated his or her responsibility. However, if you are insinuating that this is the norm everywhere, I disagree strongly. In the Catholic School System where I taught for thirty five years of my life, the teachers responsible for those children and the local pastors went out of their way to ensure that the kids were prepared. How much of that preparation really sinks into the individual child’s conciousness and continues to mature with the child is another issue.
I’ve never belonged to a parish with a reconciliation room. There have always been the same old confessional boxes that were around when I was young. Once in awhile, a line might form [especially during lent], but usually people wait in the pews. I have never noticed a problem with anyone jumping up or arguing about who geys to go next. In my city, we have four-way stop signs all over the place so perhaps we are simply used to waitng our turn?

Actually Frosty, it sounds as if your situation might be the one to be unique. It would seem that if people were properly catechized there would be a lot more people going to confession (and Mass as well, of course). And while I certainly don’t know the minds or thoughts of the people that do go to confession, I don’t know that there is any reason to suppose that they know more about confession than those prior to Vatican II. In fact, with catechesis the way it has been the last forty years, there’s good reason to suppose that they probably know less.

 

[cothrige]

It is indeed a shame that your son was not properly prepared for the Sacrament of Reconciliation. Someone most assuredly abrogated his or her responsibility. However, if you are insinuating that this is the norm everywhere, I disagree strongly.

Oh, not at all. I certainly am hoping it is anything but the norm. But, it obviously is happening, and so I am not convinced that a real improvement has been achieved regarding preparation for confession among children from pre-conciliar times. That is all I am getting at.

In the Catholic School System where I taught for thirty five years of my life, the teachers responsible for those children and the local pastors went out of their way to ensure that the kids were prepared. How much of that preparation really sinks into the individual child’s conciousness and continues to mature with the child is another issue.

Well, of course Catholic schools are a different situation. I have been led to believe that the Catholic school here locally provides a reasonable religious education to the kids in that school. However, the kids who go to the other religious education classes, including in that same Church, don’t get that same level of education. And since I cannot afford the $15000 per year to send my sons to that school, I have to go with the crumbs that fall from the table.

I’ve never belonged to a parish with a reconciliation room. There have always been the same old confessional boxes that were around when I was young. Once in awhile, a line might form [especially during lent], but usually people wait in the pews. I have never noticed a problem with anyone jumping up or arguing about who geys to go next. In my city, we have four-way stop signs all over the place so perhaps we are simply used to waitng our turn?

I have seen those boxes in movies, but never in person. I wouldn’t know what to do if I saw one. But, I wish we had something like that here. As it is every church with a reconciliation room has it or them in a large area with no obvious signs of qeueing. Our previous parish up the road had neither a confessional nor a reconcilation room. Well, they had a reconciliation room, but used it for storage of things like old missalettes and candles (this was before we stopped using candles of course) and also for hiding the Sacrament in on Sunday mornings so that we could eat dough-nuts and drink coffee in the Church after Mass. Confession there, if you wanted it, was only possible in the priest’s office. Fortunately nobody confessed so there was no line.

 

[Frosty]

Oh, not at all. I certainly am hoping it is anything but the norm. But, it obviously is happening, and so I am not convinced that a real improvement has been achieved regarding preparation for confession among children from pre-conciliar times. That is all I am getting at.

Well, of course Catholic schools are a different situation. I have been led to believe that the Catholic school here locally provides a reasonable religious education to the kids in that school. However, the kids who go to the other religious education classes, including in that same Church, don’t get that same level of education. And since I cannot afford the $15000 per year to send my sons to that school, I have to go with the crumbs that fall from the table.

I’m curious. What other religious education classes would your sons attend? Bible classes or summer bible school? I do know that classes like that are available here as well but since the Catholic School System in my province is open to every Catholic child who wants to attend, the same as the Public School System, I have not paid much attention to anything else.
Personally, I believe my own children were better perpared for First Communion and Confession than I was. I say this because they were allowed to ask questions and have the meaning and symbolism of what they were about to participate in explained to them in a much more meaningful way than I experienced, Whether or not it has translated into a deeper love and adherence to the Catholic Church is not for me to say. The mustard seeds were planted, just as they always used to be, some will thrive and many will not. Nothing has changed in that way at all.

 

[Freshman88]

I’m curious. What other religious education classes would your sons attend? Bible classes or summer bible school? I do know that classes like that are available here as well but since the Catholic School System in my province is open to every Catholic child who wants to attend, the same as the Public School System, I have not paid much attention to anything else.
Personally, I believe my own children were better perpared for First Communion and Confession than I was. I say this because they were allowed to ask questions and have the meaning and symbolism of what they were about to participate in explained to them in a much more meaningful way than I experienced, Whether or not it has translated into a deeper love and adherence to the Catholic Church is not for me to say. The mustard seeds were planted, just as they always used to be, some will thrive and many will not. Nothing has changed in that way at all.

Ugh, don’t put too much faith in our Catholic school system. I graduated from high school two years ago, and had the full 14 years of Catholic education. I graduated an agnostic, despite my parents taking me to mass every sunday of my life. My parent’s didn’t discuss religion at home however, and largely trusted the school system to do that. To given an example of my experience, I recall an award winning teacher (GG award or something really prestigious like that) telling us that Mohammad was recognized as a prophet.

That said, it certainly beats the public system as far as education, much better behaved kids, less drugs and violence, and teacher’s who actually care (even better football! Crusader pride!) - we get tons of non-Catholic public school transfers. I wouldn’t however, entrust everything to the Catholic school system. It was my experience that most religion teachers were horribly ignorant of the faith. Many other friends I’ve made in university have had similar experiences in Ontario (kids from all sorts of place including Burlington, Oakville, Hamilton, St.Catharine’s, London, and Mississauga), and we’re all quite bitter about our experience. (ohhh not to mention that the high school liturgies are something else!)

 

[peary]

The idea of what constitutes a Traditionalist Catholic has come up in debate numerous times in this forum- so I ask, what is a Traditionalist Catholic?

It used to mean one that upholds everything the Church teaches and follows all rubrics. Nowadays, it seems to have taken on a vastly different connotation, being used specifically as one who follows the pre-Vatican II liturgy.

 

[Frosty]

Ugh, don’t put too much faith in our Catholic school system. I graduated from high school two years ago, and had the full 14 years of Catholic education. I graduated an agnostic, despite my parents taking me to mass every sunday of my life. My parent’s didn’t discuss religion at home however, and largely trusted the school system to do that. To given an example of my experience, I recall an award winning teacher (GG award or something really prestigious like that) telling us that Mohammad was recognized as a prophet.

That said, it certainly beats the public system as far as education, much better behaved kids, less drugs and violence, and teacher’s who actually care (even better football! Crusader pride!) - we get tons of non-Catholic public school transfers. I wouldn’t however, entrust everything to the Catholic school system. It was my experience that most religion teachers were horribly ignorant of the faith. Many other friends I’ve made in university have had similar experiences in Ontario (kids from all sorts of place including Burlington, Oakville, Hamilton, St.Catharine’s, London, and Mississauga), and we’re all quite bitter about our experience. (ohhh not to mention that the high school liturgies are something else!)

I’m sorry that you graduated from Catholic schools without any faith in God or the Church. You say that although your parents did not discuss religion at home, they did take you to regular Sunday Mass. It is none of my business but I wonder what made you turn away? I am well aware of the shortfalls in the Catholic School System and that there are many teachers in it who really don’t know much, or even care. about the Catholic Church. I taught in one of them myself. However, I have also taught in and sent my children to ones where the religious education was excellent. They do exist, believe it or not! In my previous posts, I was careful to say that I was speaking only from my own personal experiences. I do recognize that there are problems but there are also good sides. I get really tired of so many people only focusing on the negatives and making sweeping generalizations, often based on nothing more than rumour, hearsay, and what they have read on other forums and blogs.
Sorry, Freshman 88, I’m not singling you out here, I was pleased that you did feel you got a better all around education at your Catholic schools than that offered by the Public System.
And yes, it is amazing how those Catholic schools always seem to have so many great football teams, isn’t it? Basketball and hockey too!

 

[Freshman88]

It is none of my business but I wonder what made you turn away?

I have always been in some form or another, a conservative. For me, I continued to respect my parents wishes to attend mass because I believed in a conservative morality and family tradition (I’m of Polish extraction). So I willingly attended, but I saw nothing spiritual in the mass, because I was never told that anything was happening. (all those masses and classes, and if you asked me in gr.12 I would have told you the Eucharist was symbolic).

Why did I turn away? I didn’t really turn away from the faith, but rather from what I was taught was the Catholic faith. The faith as it was presented to me throughout my childhood was nothing more then a group who did a lot of social justice, clapping and singing, and tried to accept everyone while shrugging off some neasty"medieval baggage". I learned more about the buddhist religion from the gr.11 world religions class then all the other years focused on liberal Catholicism (social justice and blind acceptance).

I am well aware of the shortfalls in the Catholic School System and that there are many teachers in it who really don’t know much, or even care. about the Catholic Church. I taught in one of them myself. However, I have also taught in and sent my children to ones where the religious education was excellent. They do exist, believe it or not! In my previous posts, I was careful to say that I was speaking only from my own personal experiences. I do recognize that there are problems but there are also good sides. I get really tired of so many people only focusing on the negatives and making sweeping generalizations, often based on nothing more than rumour, hearsay, and what they have read on other forums and blogs.
Sorry, Freshman 88, I’m not singling you out here, I was pleased that you did feel you got a better all around education at your Catholic schools than that offered by the Public System.
And yes, it is amazing how those Catholic schools always seem to have so many great football teams, isn’t it? Basketball and hockey too!

To be fair to myself too, I didn’t really solidify my opinion until I began to talk to other freshly graduated Ontarian Catholics at university and on the internet. Our experience is fairly common, but I’m glad you found an orthodox school for your children.

 

[Frosty]

I have always been in some form or another, a conservative. For me, I continued to respect my parents wishes to attend mass because I believed in a conservative morality and family tradition (I’m of Polish extraction). So I willingly attended, but I saw nothing spiritual in the mass, because I was never told that anything was happening. (all those masses and classes, and if you asked me in gr.12 I would have told you the Eucharist was symbolic).

Why did I turn away? I didn’t really turn away from the faith, but rather from what I was taught was the Catholic faith. The faith as it was presented to me throughout my childhood was nothing more then a group who did a lot of social justice, clapping and singing, and tried to accept everyone while shrugging off some neasty"medieval baggage". I learned more about the buddhist religion from the gr.11 world religions class then all the other years focused on liberal Catholicism (social justice and blind acceptance).

To be fair to myself too, I didn’t really solidify my opinion until I began to talk to other freshly graduated Ontarian Catholics at university and on the internet. Our experience is fairly common, but I’m glad you found an orthodox school for your children.

Thanks for an honest answer. Also to be fair, even though my kids were fortunate enough to get an orthodox religious education in school, I think they were helped greatly by their family situation. They were surrounded by a large extended family to whom religion was extremely important and is discussed a great deal. They had relatives, who are priests and nuns, to talk things over with and who would answer their questions. It was the same for me when I was growing up and I thank God every day for having given us this blessing. Many of my kids friends who got the same education never go near a church now that they are adults. Why? I wouldn’t venture to guess. They do still consider themselves Catholic and actually most of them are very involved in social justice issues. Strangely enough, they vote Conservative!

 

[Auntie_M]

Oh, not at all. I certainly am hoping it is anything but the norm. But, it obviously is happening, and so I am not convinced that a real improvement has been achieved regarding preparation for confession among children from pre-conciliar times. That is all I am getting at.

Well, of course Catholic schools are a different situation. I have been led to believe that the Catholic school here locally provides a reasonable religious education to the kids in that school. However, the kids who go to the other religious education classes, including in that same Church, don’t get that same level of education. And since I cannot afford the $15000 per year to send my sons to that school, I have to go with the crumbs that fall from the table.

I have seen those boxes in movies, but never in person. I wouldn’t know what to do if I saw one. But, I wish we had something like that here. As it is every church with a reconciliation room has it or them in a large area with no obvious signs of qeueing. Our previous parish up the road had neither a confessional nor a reconcilation room. Well, they had a reconciliation room, but used it for storage of things like old missalettes and candles (this was before we stopped using candles of course) and also for hiding the Sacrament in on Sunday mornings so that we could eat dough-nuts and drink coffee in the Church after Mass. Confession there, if you wanted it, was only possible in the priest’s office. Fortunately nobody confessed so there was no line.

I do feel your anxiety about your son. I home schooled for the last two years of high school for my daughter. She and I both were recent converts at that time, so we both encouraged each other to learn everything we could about the faith on our own. We went to the church’s library and got books and videos till, I think, they got tired of seeing us come.
As I understand it, The Church encourages parents to teach their children the faith and not to depend on anyone else to do it. And this way, sometimes the parents learn things they didn’t know either.
I do feel for any child that has to go through today’s public school system. I have worked with the public schools alot and now with a Catholic one, and believe me there IS a difference. I do feel that IF there is any way of sending your child to a Catholic School, it is really the best investment you’ll ever make. (better than buying a beemer)

 

[Auntie_M]

[SIGN]

Ugh, don’t put too much faith in our Catholic school system. I graduated from high school two years ago, and had the full 14 years of Catholic education. I graduated an agnostic, despite my parents taking me to mass every sunday of my life. **My parent’s didn’t discuss religion at home however, and largely trusted the school system to do that. **[/SIGN]

My point exactly. To just “learn” about the faith is NOT living the faith.
Never trust your children’s minds to someone else. Training begins at home. The old saying of “monkey see, monkey do” is so true of alot of things. It is a scientic fact, (studies have been made), that IF a child sees his paents reading alot of books, then that child will also have a love of reading. If the child sees his parents watching tv and becoming a couch potato, then the child puts very little emphasis on anything but the tv.
But, “in the old days”, there wasn’t alot of emphasis placed on learning the “whys” of Catholism (or learning Latin for that matter)
People just sat in mass, some saying the Rosary, some “trying” to follow along with the priest, some not even paying attention,
and some just being there because that was what was expected of them to do.
The Catholic faith IS EXCITING. And IF you show that excitement, others will get excited too. Enthusiasm breeds enthusiam.

 

[Auntie_M]

Thanks for an honest answer. Also to be fair, even though my kids were fortunate enough to get an orthodox religious education in school, **I think they were helped greatly by their family situation. They were surrounded by a large extended family to whom religion was extremely important and is discussed a great deal. They had relatives, who are priests and nuns, to talk things over with and who would answer their questions. It was the same for me when I was growing up and I thank God every day for having given us this blessing. Many of **my kids friends who got the same education never go near a church now that they are adults. Why? I wouldn’t venture to guess. They do still consider themselves Catholic and actually most of them are very involved in social justice issues. Strangely enough, they vote Conservative!

(Refer to my post to Freshman 88)
Family support is THE answer.

 

[peary]

Yes, I agree entirely. Once reforming the TLM was decided against, though I don’t understand why it was, suppression of the ancient Mass should never have been done. But, it was, and that is a historical reality. And the possibility of the same rather violent action being carried out against the OF is now worrying the very people who have supported the continued suppression of the TLM. They post here that the traditionalists are secretly trying to ban the OF, and that disturbs them. Why? They didn’t complain when it was done to the EF. They didn’t call for restoration.

What I see on these fora is a wonderful example of Christian charity. Most people who post here can have up to a hundred Masses offered in the form they prefer in their city or town every weekend. This one is too early? Fine, go to another. This one too late? Not to worry, there are others. Too charismatic? Too traditional? Too loud? Too quiet? Too much incense? Not enough? Not a problem. There is choice after choice, and in almost every case none include the EF. Those who prefer that Mass have to drive, in some cases, a hundred miles or more for one opportunity per month to celebrate in their preferred manner. If it is too anything, then too bad. That is what they get.

So what do these less Catholic people, if we go by what is said by many here on this forum, do when they are met with this situation? They ask for a Mass to be said locally. They ask their priests, or bishop, to help them. They also come here and talk about how they can achieve this. And what do the lovely people who have a hundred or more Masses per weekend available to them, so that they can find just the perfect time and style for their aesthetic sensibilities, say in response? How dare you try to take our Mass! Why do you hate the Mass? They are all equal (of course if that were true then they would not object to half or all being the EF, but that is another story isn’t it).

So, in the end, we find that hoping for one Mass to be offered out of a hundred is simply unacceptable. It is nothing less than an attempt to suppress and ban the OF. What else could it be? That is, after all, just what these same people have been reaping the benefits of all these years.

If anything, it reveals just how important sacred worship is to people.

 

[ethelzguy]

(Refer to my post to Freshman 88)
Family support is THE answer.

:yup: :tiphat:

 

[cothrige]

As I understand it, The Church encourages parents to teach their children the faith and not to depend on anyone else to do it. And this way, sometimes the parents learn things they didn’t know either.

Absolutely, I have put a large amount of effort in teaching my sons. They are my responsibility, and as the father I feel it is my ministry to evangelize them. But, I was responding to a post which was applauding the postconciliar Church for doing a better job in regards to confession and preparation for reception than did the preconciliar Church. I cannot speak to the preconciliar period, but clearly in the case of my son the Church of today did absolutey nothing at all to educate him. I am not saying his case is representative, but it may be for all I know. And perhaps things were awful in the preconciliar times, but they may also be awful now. They were for us.

 

[Brennan_Doherty]

My point exactly. To just “learn” about the faith is NOT living the faith.
Never trust your children’s minds to someone else. Training begins at home. The old saying of “monkey see, monkey do” is so true of alot of things. It is a scientic fact, (studies have been made), that IF a child sees his paents reading alot of books, then that child will also have a love of reading. If the child sees his parents watching tv and becoming a couch potato, then the child puts very little emphasis on anything but the tv.
But, “in the old days”, there wasn’t alot of emphasis placed on learning the “whys” of Catholism (or learning Latin for that matter)
People just sat in mass, some saying the Rosary, some “trying” to follow along with the priest, some not even paying attention,
and some just being there because that was what was expected of them to do.
The Catholic faith IS EXCITING. And IF you show that excitement, others will get excited too. Enthusiasm breeds enthusiam.

And how on earth do you know the disposition of so many Catholics during pre-conciliar times? Are you omniscient? I have a missal from pre-conciliar times and it certainly does an excellent job of teaching the “whys” of the Mass. Did things like the pre-conciliar Baltimore Catechism or the book “This is The Faith” really not teach the why’s of the Faith? That’s certainly not my impression of them, or any pre-conciliar catechism I’ve seen.

And wouldn’t it have been de rigeur to teach Latin in most Catholic schools in pre-conciliar times (not to mention even many public schools)?

Well, one thing I can say, at least we’ve one (or two) upped the pre-concilar Church in that nowadays not only do many Catholics not even know the whys of the Faith, many don’t even the whats.

God bless.

 

[Auntie_M]

Brennan, you do love to argue, don’t you.

I was referring to people (old people who lived during that time) and also people from the posts here on CAF.
How old are you?
Did you live during that time?
The way the older people talk about the “mass of all times”, it seems that they really prefer the “Mass of today” since they have learned more by this, than they ever did before.

Years ago there were also alot of people who couldn’t even read, so “reading” the missal while the Latin was being said was really out of the question.

When I grew up, there was soooo much emphasis on “Get your education, you can’t get a good job if you don’t have your HIGH SCHOOL education!” College was not even an option.

In the south, on farms, some kids didn’t even have the privilege of going to school on a regular basis and some not at all.

There were alot of parents, back then, couldn’t read either and depended on the Church to teach them so they could in turn teach their children.) Therefore, with Latin, folks just didn’t get any instruction of the Catholic faith at all. They just went to mass and did what everybody else did, stood when they did, sat when they did, tried to understand what the priest was saying or doing, or just sit and say their Rosary.

If today’s youth had to live “BACK THEN”, there would be screaming, yelling, and gnashing of the teeth! They simply could not do it. (as the song goes, “A Country Boy Can Survive”)

Maybe, that is what we need to do. Let’s not only go back to the “Mass of all times”, Let’s go back to the “time of all times”. Say, 1800’s maybe?

We would not have to worry about gas prices!


"Way BACK THEN was NOT a bed a roses.

Life as we know it today is completely different.

 

[Deacon_Ed_B]

I certainly believe a Catholic can hold the opinion you do, nothing wrong with that. My primary point is that someone who holds the contrary opinion (as I do) is not denying the proper operation of the Holy Spirit in the guidance of the Church, as there is no guarantee from God that a Council will necessarily produce good fruit.

We agree here with one small exception (I think) While there is as you say no guarantee that a council will produce good fruit, I would maintain that being under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, no bad fruit would come from the council, but rather from the individuals who interpret what the council did.

So I believe that certainly there are people who were ready and waiting to take advantage of Vatican II and thus they bear some of the blame, but also conversely that if ambiguous documents weren’t released at that time they would not have had as much to take advantage of. Hence I certainly do not believe at this time we are stronger or better off because of Vatican II. Now maybe, a couple of centuries down the line, we will have learned some hard lessons from Vatican II.

I believe this paragraph says you agree with what I have stated above.

Again, to say that Vatican II has not produced good fruits or that the Church was not made stronger because of it is not to say that the Holy Spirit has abandoned the Church or wasn’t guiding it. The Holy Spirit kept the Church from promulgating any error in the areas of faith and morals, which is a rather amazing thing in and of itself. God bless.

As to this paragraph, the only thing I can say is that we will have to agree to disagree. You state that the Council has not produced good fruits. I disagree with this because I would not be a permanent deacon without the council. I say this not because I think that I am an example of what a permanent deacon should be, but because I know of many whom, I strive to be like and just pray that I can be as effective in doing God’s work as they.

Prayers & blessisngs
Deacon Ed B

 

[cothrige]

Years ago there were also alot of people who couldn’t even read, so “reading” the missal while the Latin was being said was really out of the question.

Sorry for intruding, but I am curious about this. If what you say is true, why would that be a mark against the Mass? Are you saying that the Mass made people illiterate? Or are you saying that because they were illiterate they couldn’t learn during Mass? But today most people are not illiterate, so why would that matter now?

But, when you get down to it, why would it ever matter how much people were educated during the Mass? The Mass is not a place for study is it? It is for worship and sacrifice, not education. In some Protestant circles, where worship has been abandoned, Sunday has become a day to study and learn. That is all they really can do, but we are not in that boat. We have the Mass, and so education and study should be done in classrooms where it belongs. Shouldn’t it?

 

[CradleCath]

Brennan, you do love to argue, don’t you.

I was referring to people (old people who lived during that time) and also people from the posts here on CAF.
How old are you?
Did you live during that time?
The way the older people talk about the “mass of all times”, it seems that they really prefer the “Mass of today” since they have learned more by this, than they ever did before.

Years ago there were also alot of people who couldn’t even read, so “reading” the missal while the Latin was being said was really out of the question.

When I grew up, there was soooo much emphasis on “Get your education, you can’t get a good job if you don’t have your HIGH SCHOOL education!” College was not even an option.

In the south, on farms, some kids didn’t even have the privilege of going to school on a regular basis and some not at all.

There were alot of parents, back then, couldn’t read either and depended on the Church to teach them so they could in turn teach their children.) Therefore, with Latin, folks just didn’t get any instruction of the Catholic faith at all. They just went to mass and did what everybody else did, stood when they did, sat when they did, tried to understand what the priest was saying or doing, or just sit and say their Rosary.

If today’s youth had to live “BACK THEN”, there would be screaming, yelling, and gnashing of the teeth! They simply could not do it. (as the song goes, “A Country Boy Can Survive”)

Maybe, that is what we need to do. Let’s not only go back to the “Mass of all times”, Let’s go back to the “time of all times”. Say, 1800’s maybe?

We would not have to worry about gas prices!

"Way BACK THEN was NOT a bed a roses.

Life as we know it today is completely different.

You have to be kidding. I’m 66 & I received a wonderful Catholic education from the Benedictines for elementary school & the Nuns of the Sacred Heart for high school. My Father was not wealthy, but one way or another…through the jobs we children held during the summer, scholarships & some help from them, we all got through college.

Dad was born in 1914 & HE (& his brothers & sisters) got a great education 1-12 from the Benedictines. Two of his brothers became priests. One of my Grandparents immigrated with his parents from Denmark, one from England & the other two grandparents came from Germany before the war. They could all speak & read English by the time their children reached school age, because theyB] were determined to learn that language,One set of Grandparents farmed, on the other side…my grandfather worked for the Rock Island railroad, building boxcars & my grandmother was a homemaker.None of them had much money, but they believed that they had been blessed to come to this country & set about learning everything they could about it.

As far as “not knowing the Mass”, I have my Grandmother’s old English/Latin missal & it was dog-eared & underlined & well used when I got it. I want to use it at today’s Tridentine Mass, but fear it might suffer further harm. I may do that anyway as she would love that. As for my generation, the babies born of the soldiers of WWII, we started learning the Mass in the first grade. We took Latin in high school, though we already knew quite a bit just from the Missals we used during Mass.

I don’t doubt that there were SOME people like those you wrote about, but please don’t make it sound common. It wasn’t.