What is an Evangelical?

[Hilde89]

Avangelicals can indeed be Lutherans. Just sayin’ , even though there’s not much emphasis on the “born again by the spirit” thing, or spirit baptizm as we call it here.

 

[PhiJ]

I think the capital “E” in Evangelical is a particular group. While evangelical can mean many things in speech, the E implies they adhere to the definition of evangelical as described by PhiJ in addition a positive association with particular groups of people also using the term Evangelical.

The way you say group makes it sound like you mean ‘movement’ or ‘denomination’, but if you mean group in the looser sense of the word - people who share a common theology - or at least agree on the more fundamental parts of theology, then fair enough.

I think the main reason why I’d have a positive association with people also using the term Evangelical is that by describing themself with that word I feel like I know a little about what they believe and practice, and I agree with them. So any positive association comes from being evangelical, rather than being required for it.

 

[GKC]

The LCMS website defines evangelical as “loyal to the gospel of Jesus Christ”. I have also seen it defined as Grace centered. I think you will find that Lutherans generally don’t use the term as a noun, as that confuses with the modern American evangelical movement that has been described, but more as an adjective - evangelical Lutheran, and sometimes Evangelical Catholic.
Speaking only for me, I like the term evangelical Catholic in that it reminds me that while we are a reformation Church, our roots are in the one holy catholic and apostolic church, and we should always be working toward reconciliation and unity.

Jon

My parish describes itself as Catholic and Evangelical, in the Anglican tradition. Covers all bases.

GKC

 

[GKC]

As with most things like this, I think it depends. Lutheranism places great importance on the Sacraments of Baptism and the Eucharist…and treats them as Sacraments. Those are important characteristics that distinguish the Lutheran tradition from American Evangelicals. In contrast, Anglicans come in many different shapes and sizes. In the past, this diversity was also reflected in the Episcopal Church. Unfortunately, with the Episcopal Church’s strong movement towards what could charitably be described as “progressive Christianity”, the Episcopal Church has become less and less diverse. Many of the Anglo-Catholics left in the 1970s when the Episcopal Church began ordaining women priests (and later women bishops). Many conservative evangelical members of the Episcopal Church began leaving after the 2003 ordination of Gene Robinson, an open and proudly active homosexual man, as the Episcopal Bishop of New Hampshire. The advocacy of many Episcopalians of developing rites for blessing same-sex “marriage” also did not help. As a consequence, the Episcopal Church has lost thousands of evangelical Episcopalians (individuals, parishes and even if I recall correctly four dioceses). So, yes, there was once a strong Evangelical presence within the Episcopal Church (I was once one of that number), but that presence has been strongly diminished. (Not completely gone, there are still Episcopalians who would qualify as Evangelicals under the terminology I describe in posts above, just not as many as there once was).

Yep.

and…

virtueonline.org/portal/modules/news/article.php?storyid=10821

GKC

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

My parish describes itself as Catholic and Evangelical, in the Anglican tradition. Covers all bases.

GKC

While I know that the term “Evangelical” has many definitions and there are many types of Evangelicals, I have found that most Evangelicals believe not in a priesthood but in a ministry, seeing “presbyter” as meaning simply “elder” and not “priest.” Evangelicals tend to focus purely on Scripture alone and reconstructing what they perceive as the NT Church. I always wondered, as an Anglican, how Anglicans can be Catholic AND Evangelical. The two seem opposed to each other. I understand how one could take a bit from each but overall these camps seem too opposed theologically even to do that?

 

[GKC]

While I know that the term “Evangelical” has many definitions and there are many types of Evangelicals, I have found that most Evangelicals believe not in a priesthood but in a ministry, seeing “presbyter” as meaning simply “elder” and not “priest.” Evangelicals tend to focus purely on Scripture alone and reconstructing what they perceive as the NT Church. I always wondered, as an Anglican, how Anglicans can be Catholic AND Evangelical. The two seem opposed to each other. I understand how one could take a bit from each but overall these camps seem too opposed theologically even to do that?

Leave us not neglect the original meaning of the word; the good news, the Gospel news, of man’s redemption in Christ. An evangelical Anglican can mean one who spreads the gospel, as a central part of what it means to be both Anglican and Christian, and not necessarily the more specific and restricted sense of the word which involves the more reformed flavor of Anglicanism.

My rector means, in using that slogan, that he preaches a mean salvation oriented, scripturally based sermon, and celebrates the re-presentation of the One Sacrifice as the central element of worship.

GKC

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Leave us not neglect the original meaning of the word; the good news, the Gospel news, of man’s redemption in Christ. An evangelical Anglican can mean one who spreads the gospel, as a central part of what it means to be both Anglican and Christian, and not necessarily the more specific and restricted sense of the word which involves the more reformed flavor of Anglicanism.

My rector means, in using that slogan, that he preaches a mean salvation oriented, scripturally based sermon, and celebrates the re-presentation of the One Sacrifice as the central element of worship.

GKC

As my friend would say, “ain’t nuthin wrong with that bruthah!” I knew what you meant, GKC, I’m just saying that there are MANY groups within Anglicanism (the Stott and Packard factions) that are STRICT evangelicals in the tight meaning of the word, rejecting a priesthood and sacrificial/sacramental emphasis at all. They have more in common with baptists than the historic faith. That’s what I meant, that the term is so wide.

 

[GKC]

As my friend would say, “ain’t nuthin wrong with that bruthah!” I knew what you meant, GKC, I’m just saying that there are MANY groups within Anglicanism (the Stott and Packard factions) that are STRICT evangelicals in the tight meaning of the word, rejecting a priesthood and sacrificial/sacramental emphasis at all. They have more in common with baptists than the historic faith. That’s what I meant, that the term is so wide.

GIt yer programs here. Can’t tell the Anglicans from the Anglicans widout yer program.

GKC

 

[JonNC]

GIt yer programs here. Can’t tell the Anglicans from the Anglicans widout yer program.

GKC

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

GIt yer programs here. Can’t tell the Anglicans from the Anglicans widout yer program.

GKC

There are programs? I have been going about my study of Anglicanism all wrong then.

BTW Oddie’s book finally came in the mail. I have always seen Wilde’s The Picture of Dorian Gray at the book store but never had any reason to pick it up. After reading about its influence on Chesterton (even though it is not the influence Wilde would have wanted I believe) I have no option but to pick it up now.

Not trying to high jack on own thread. Carry on with your program GKC.

God bless you

 

[mark_a]

Evangelical is really adenominational (not sure if that is the right word), just like you could be a liberal christian, and part of any (or no) denomination. The same goes for evangelicalism (evangelical is kind of the opposite of liberal). So John Stott is a famous evangelical theologian who is anglican, as is Tom Wright. John Piper is a baptist, and it appears that Martin Lloyd Jones was independant (although that’s from a quick google, as were the rest of these, so I’m not certain).

Or you could have said “I don’t know!”

Thanks anyway.

 

[GKC]

There are programs? I have been going about my study of Anglicanism all wrong then.

BTW Oddie’s book finally came in the mail. I have always seen Wilde’s The Picture of Dorian Gray at the book store but never had any reason to pick it up. After reading about its influence on Chesterton (even though it is not the influence Wilde would have wanted I believe) I have no option but to pick it up now.

Not trying to high jack on own thread. Carry on with your program GKC.

God bless you

WIlde in particular. But brush up on the broader fin de siecle literary movement, the aesthetes, and the Yellow Book, too. Chesterton was in reaction to a lot of things, of which Wilde was certainly one. And you can watch him parody Swinburne, in poetry.

I await your reaction to Oddie.

GKC

 

[PhiJ]

Evangelicals tend to focus purely on … reconstructing what they perceive as the NT Church.

Two things - first I’d heard it said as trying to construct the New Testament ideal of a church (as many New Testament churches left much to be desired). And is this different to anybody else? I assume we all want to build church as christ intends us to, and as we believe that the bible is the word of God the ideal portrayed in the New Testament is God’s ideal for a church. So remembering to take cultural differences into account, that is what we should aim for. Also, isn’t the church incredibly important, so this should be a priority.

Or you could have said “I don’t know!”

Yes, I need reminding to shut up sometimes - specially when I’m on holiday, and don’t have so much time pressure. But I think that contribution was at least vaguely useful, the original question came from: “I had never before considered believers in the Anglican/Episcopalian Churches or the Lutheran Church (basically the more traditional Protestant Churches) to be Evangelical and had always reserved the ‘label’ for non-denominational believers and believers with Baptists leanings.” Contarini then proceeded to answer it better than I did .

And I only got the denominations of John Stott, John Piper and Martin Lloyd Jones from google. The rest was what I knew.

There we go, said too much already

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

WIlde in particular. But brush up on the broader fin de siecle literary movement, the aesthetes, and the Yellow Book, too. Chesterton was in reaction to a lot of things, of which Wilde was certainly one. And you can watch him parody Swinburne, in poetry.

GKC

Wilde’s own exodus from the fin de siecle movement may be something to read further into as well.

I await your reaction to Oddie.

So far so good. He has made Chesterton appear to not live in such a vacuum. It is truly a book which sets out to accomplish its title; ‘The making of GKC’. Or sub-title anyway

God bless you

 

[Roman_Catholic_1]

I assume we all want to build church as christ intends us to, and as we believe that the bible is the word of God the ideal portrayed in the New Testament is God’s ideal for a church. So remembering to take cultural differences into account, that is what we should aim for. Also, isn’t the church incredibly important, so this should be a priority.

I think the Church God intended is precisely the Church which Christ founded. It has been us that have done our best to mess it up.

God bless you

 

[O.S.Luke]

Would there be any others who would accept your definition? What about those who would not accept your definition? More divisions?

I would pretty much go along with Contarini’s definition - which is the more classical definition.

Evangelical comes from the biblical Greek ευαγγελικός. It’s not a dirty word - if we live out the Great Commission, we are all evangelical.

O+

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Two things - first I’d heard it said as trying to construct the New Testament ideal of a church (as many New Testament churches left much to be desired). And is this different to anybody else? I assume we all want to build church as christ intends us to, and as we believe that the bible is the word of God the ideal portrayed in the New Testament is God’s ideal for a church. So remembering to take cultural differences into account, that is what we should aim for. Also, isn’t the church incredibly important, so this should be a priority.
Keeping to the faith once delivered is crucial, that’s a given. But what I mean is that the very primitive days of the Church were still in the synagogue. The Bible uses the terms “episkopos” and “presbyteros” almost interchangeably. Some protestants erroneously think there was no sacramental, mystical, or priestly role in the early church. So, from a Catholic point of view, this trying to get into a mental time machine, go back 2000 years or so ignoring the Early Fathers and councils, and all that the Holy Spirit did in the very early stages of creating a priesthood and sacramental system, this idea of just reading a NT and trying to reconstruct what you see doesn’t work.

Yes, I need reminding to shut up sometimes - specially when I’m on holiday, and don’t have so much time pressure. But I think that contribution was at least vaguely useful, the original question came from: “I had never before considered believers in the Anglican/Episcopalian Churches or the Lutheran Church (basically the more traditional Protestant Churches) to be Evangelical and had always reserved the ‘label’ for non-denominational believers and believers with Baptists leanings.” Contarini then proceeded to answer it better than I did .

And I only got the denominations of John Stott, John Piper and Martin Lloyd Jones from google. The rest was what I knew.

There we go, said too much already

 

[mmmcounts]

I was reading a thread and a poster mentioned that he was Evangelical and had been in the Episcopalian Church. I had never before considered believers in the Anglican/Episcopalian Churches or the Lutheran Church (basically the more traditional Protestant Churches) to be Evangelical and had always reserved the ‘label’ for non-denominational believers and believers with Baptists leanings. This got me thinking; why did I come to this conclusion about my definition of an Evangelical?

So what is an Evangelical? Is being an Evangelical opposed to being a Catholic? Can a person be both?

God bless you

Hey, I’m glad I ran into this. The thing about Evangelicalism is that the term Evangelical is only slightly more specific than the word Protestant. There are certain basic beliefs held in common, but there are many other things where opinions differ.

Evangelicals are not Roman Catholics. Generally speaking, it makes no sense for a person to be both. That’s how it is right now, anyway- there are a few people on both sides who would like to see that change, and this concept is going to be explored by some experts very soon at a chapel that is hopefully near you.

I don’t know where you’re from, but if you are able to be in the West Suburbs of Chicago…actually, I’ll stop talking. Just look at the link. It says it all. wheaton.edu/news/events/events_09_10/09.03.09_PennerDebate.html

September 3. If you’re able to be there, I think it’ll be well worth it. If you want to find it on Google Maps, look up 501 College Ave. Wheaton, IL 60187. Once you reach your destination, head a little further west on College Ave (which becomes Seminary Ave where it hits Main Street) and head north on Washington (College Church is on that corner- that’s where the moderator spends a lot of his time). A couple thousand feet later, the parking lot for Edman is on your right.

The question, as you can see, is right there: “Exploring Christian Identity: Can you be a Catholic and Evangelical?” To this point, the typical answer is “No, they’re incompatible.” This will be a debate that explores the various reasons for and against that.

Edit- I should probably direct you to something else, too, while I’m at it. It’s something known as ECT, or Evangelicals and Catholics Together. Wheaton evangelicals…let’s put it this way. The most prominent Wheaton evangelicals seem to have a tendency to support the goals of this group. Some of them are co-founders or prominent members in it. There are other Wheaton evangelicals who don’t have nearly as much love for Catholicism, but in my experience, they tend to keep their heads down as far as that topic goes. No one really seems to headline themselves with “I don’t like Catholicism,” while a good number of people do headline themselves with “I think we need to do more together.” Again, if you’re able to get to Wheaton and see the debate, it should be well worth it. I’m sure ECT will come up more than once- it’s quite the contentious issue.

Go through this- it’s a good first step to getting familiar with ECT.

seekgod.ca/ect.htm

Further edit- it’s probably best to just follow the links to the actual documents on this site. I didn’t immediately notice it was a Protestant site talking about the documents.

 

[Contarini]

Evangelicals are not Roman Catholics. Generally speaking, it makes no sense for a person to be both. That’s how it is right now, anyway- there are a few people on both sides who would like to see that change, and this concept is going to be explored by some experts very soon at a chapel that is hopefully near you.

I don’t know where you’re from, but if you are able to be in the West Suburbs of Chicago…actually, I’ll stop talking. Just look at the link. It says it all. wheaton.edu/news/events/events_09_10/09.03.09_PennerDebate.html

September 3. If you’re able to be there, I think it’ll be well worth it. If you want to find it on Google Maps, look up 501 College Ave. Wheaton, IL 60187. Once you reach your destination, head a little further west on College Ave (which becomes Seminary Ave where it hits Main Street) and head north on Washington (College Church is on that corner- that’s where the moderator spends a lot of his time). A couple thousand feet later, the parking lot for Edman is on your right.

The question, as you can see, is right there: “Exploring Christian Identity: Can you be a Catholic and Evangelical?” To this point, the typical answer is “No, they’re incompatible.” This will be a debate that explores the various reasons for and against that.

Thank you so much for letting us know about this. I teach at an evangelical college in northern Indiana, and I know that many of my students will be interested.

Edwin

 

[mmmcounts]

Thank you so much for letting us know about this. I teach at an evangelical college in northern Indiana, and I know that many of my students will be interested.

Edwin

Thanks, I hope some of them are able to be there. This is one more link on ECT- it’s better than the other one and includes links to some other things surrounding it- people explaining why they signed it, something put together in protest of it, a clarifying statement, etc.

leaderu.com/ect/ectmenu.html

I hope you don’t mind if I play the guessing game- The school in northern Indiana:
would that be Taylor University?