What is Bahaism? Is it a branch of Islam?

[wwolverine]

Having read some of the posts of David Mark, I am curious as to what is Bahaism. Is it a branch of Islam like Shia, sunni, or Bori’s, Agha Khan sects?

What according to them is Bahá’u’lláh (1817-1892) ? Is he a prophet after Mohammed? So are they basically muslims? Can they perform pilgrimages to Makka and Madinah?

What according to Muslims are they, are they Khafirs? or non believers? cause most of what David writes is from Islam. So does it make them muslims?

Just curious.

 

[BrianLC]

they are an offshoot of Islam. it could be said that Ba’hai is to Islam as Christianity is to Judaism. though that is an imperfect analogy

 

[FightingFat]

It sort of just goes along with everyone if you like:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bahaism

 

[mathematician]

Having read some of the posts of David Mark, I am curious as to what is Bahaism. Is it a branch of Islam like Shia, sunni, or Bori’s, Agha Khan sects?

What according to them is Bahá’u’lláh (1817-1892) ? Is he a prophet after Mohammed? So are they basically muslims? Can they perform pilgrimages to Makka and Madinah?

What according to Muslims are they, are they Khafirs? or non believers? cause most of what David writes is from Islam. So does it make them muslims?

Just curious.

In essence it takes the “all religions are just different paths up the same mountain” approach, and then formalises that idea into a religion. It is not an offshoot of any other religion (although Jesus, Budda, Moses, Zaroaster, and the rest all get a mention).

 

[NoWings]

Having read some of the posts of David Mark, I am curious as to what is Bahaism. Is it a branch of Islam like Shia, sunni, or Bori’s, Agha Khan sects?

What according to them is Bahá’u’lláh (1817-1892) ? Is he a prophet after Mohammed? So are they basically muslims? Can they perform pilgrimages to Makka and Madinah?

What according to Muslims are they, are they Khafirs? or non believers? cause most of what David writes is from Islam. So does it make them muslims?

Just curious.

Not trying to belittle your thread, but you should probably just re-post this in the other thread that is already going, since it’s a place to ask about Baha’i stuff anyway and having two question threads will get confusing.

Thread can be found here.

 

[wwolverine]

Not trying to belittle your thread, but you should probably just re-post this in the other thread that is already going, since it’s a place to ask about Baha’i stuff anyway and having two question threads will get confusing.

Thread can be found here.

Thanks No Wings. I will try posting my q there.

 

[planten]

they are an offshoot of Islam. it could be said that Ba’hai is to Islam as Christianity is to Judaism. though that is an imperfect analogy

I am trying to understand Baha’ism. Brian was nearly right only if Bria had written “JW’s to christianity”.

Bahaism had come out of Islam because Bab and bahaullah (Not his real name) and all others were Muslims of Shia sect. So the origin seems to be Islam.

But they diverged quite a lot and Bahaullah made some serious claims and called himself some kind of Manifestation instead of “prophet”. Then he claimed few more things like being a God. I do not know if his proclamations were printed and wide spread in any place, i hope not.

It appears that whatever Bahaullah said remained with him in the prison. BUt there must have been carriers carrying the messages out of the prison. So Bahullah teachings or claims were were not well known to most people. I do not know if Bahaullah died in the prison or he was released before his death.

It is very good that the Baha’is have said good-bye to Islam. They do not claim to be Muslims. But they they do not claim to be christians or Jews. To me they appear to be like the JW’s. The only difference is that JW’s claim to be christians. But Baha’is do not claim to be MUslims.

More later…

 

[arthra]

The Bab Siyyid Ali Muhammad (the Gate) Who began His Mission in 1844 and was executed by the government of the Shah Nasiridin in 1850 stirred up what today is called the Iranian and Iraqi areas. as He claimed to be the Promised One the Expected Qa’im and Return of the Twelfth Imam of Shiah Islam…there was widespread messianic expectation in the early nineteenth century not only in the United States and Europe but in the Middle East as well so Baha’is believed He fulfilled the prophecies of both Islam and Christianity. The Mullahs investigated the Bab and HIs followers decided that the Babis were apostates of Islam and began imprisoning and persecuted them.

It was the first known incident in recent times where a Faith emerged out of Islam and was independent from the beginning. The Bab introduced a new calendar with it’s own Holy Days and revealed Writings some of which were commentaries on Qur’anic Surihs. Since the Bab was not trained in any seminaries or accepted school of the time He was insulted publicly and imprisoned …later executed in Tabriz by order of the government and some chief Mullahs… All of this shook up the ecclesiastical establishment.

After rmuch persecution of the Babis community and thousands were martyred the Faith was largely suppressed and became disorganized.

But the Bab also prophesied that One Whom God would make manifest would appear and this Person we Baha’is accept was Baha’u’llah

Baha’u’llah the Glory of God (Mirza Husayn Ali Nuri) was the son of the former Governor of Nur (near Mazandaran) revealed that He was the One prophesied by the Bab and hence a new Prophet or Manifestation of God… Most of the followers of the Bab accepted His claim and soon the Faith began to be better organized. Baha’u’llah also revealed teachings to unite the planet through a world parliament and an international court of arbitration…around 1868-1871…

There’s much more to the story but this should answer some of your questions… As you see there is little or no resemblance to the Jehovah Witness group. Also Baha’is accept Prophet Muhammad as a Manifestation of God as well as the Qur’an as a Divinely revealed Book. We also accept the Bible as inspired but not necessarily accurate in some respects…

• Art

 

[Kadaveri]

Bahaism’s origins are in an offshoot of Islam, but they’ve gone way off the rails since then and are most certainly not Muslims. They are not allowed in Mecca.

 

[Nine_Two]

So basically they are to Muslims what Muslims are to Christians.

 

[arthra]

Bahaism’s origins are in an offshoot of Islam, but they’ve gone way off the rails since then and are most certainly not Muslims. They are not allowed in Mecca.

Well Baha’is may have gone “way of the rails” from your perspective and they don’t claim to be Muslims either… and of course they would not go to Mecca but they would go to Bahji in the Holy Land or Shiraz to the House of the Bab or someday to Baghdad.

• Art .

 

[arthra]

So basically they are to Muslims what Muslims are to Christians.

Maybe so… except without Jihad. Holy War was forbidden by Baha’u’llah and we are not permitted to defend our religion using military might.

• Art

 

[jakasaki]

Bahaism’s origins are in an offshoot of Islam, but they’ve gone way off the rails since then and are most certainly not Muslims. They are not allowed in Mecca.

Well heck, NO ONE is allowed in mecca - only muslims.

 

[planten]

Bahaism’s origins are in an offshoot of Islam, but they’ve gone way off the rails since then and are most certainly not Muslims. They are not allowed in Mecca.

Whether allowed in Makkah or not, they (Baha’is) have said good bye to Islam. The religion of Muslims is Islam. What is the name of their religion?? It is not Islam.

Quran says “If any one presented any religion other than Islam, it would not be accepted by Allah.” (Quran 3:85).
The Baha’is have presented a new religion. God knows what will happen to them.

They have progressed in the face of much difficulty. But that is not the sure sign of truth and success. I had said in a previous post that if Bahaullah is from Allah then nobody will be able to defeat him. If he is not from Allah then his team will disappear by itself. Nobody need take any action against the Baha’is.

The Iranian Mullas were foolish when they started killing the believers in Bahaullah. There was no need to kill any one. It was all wrong to kill any Baha’i. It was against the Islamic principle of “No Compulsion in religion.” Quran 2:256.

It appears that Bab claimed to be Mahdi. Bahaullah claimed to be the Jesus second coming. Bab claimed to be the 12th Imam according to Shia theology. The 12th Imam had been believed to be in the hiding for the last 600 (or more) years. The Shias believe that the 12th Imam was born and went into hiding. That he will appear at some time. They do not believe that he will be born afresh. So how come Bab was born in Iran. It means he could not be the same person who disappeared 600 years ago.

Also, the Baha’is sprouted from the Muslims. Muslims believe that “There is no Mahdi except Isa”. (Hadith of Ibne Majah). There is enough proof available that Mahdi and Isa are going to be one and same person, not two.

But most Muslims believe that mahdi and Isa will be two different persons. They believe that Mahdi will arrive before Isa a.s. In the Hadith it is written that there will a situation of war and Isa a.s. will come to help Mahdi. The Mahdi will be a bloody Mahdi who will not spare any life. That is the belief of the so-Called Mullas. It is not true at all. Specially, if there is no Mahdi except Isa (Jesus), then there has to be one person who should come, not two persons. How come we have Bab and Bahaullah?? have they come according to Islamic prophesies?? Or they have come according to the christian prophesies?? Arthra should tell us. And should provide the reference too.

We are Thankful to Arthra for making us wise on history of Bahaism.

 

[jakasaki]

Whether allowed in Makkah or not, they (Baha’is) have said good bye to Islam. The religion of Muslims is Islam. What is the name of their religion?? It is not Islam.

Quran says “If any one presented any religion other than Islam, it would not be accepted by Allah.” The Baha’is have presented a new religion. God know what will happen to them.

They have progressed in the face of much difficulty. But that is not the sure sign of success. I had said in a previous post that if Bahaullah is from Allah then nobody will be able to defeat him. If he is not from Allah then his team will disappear by itself. Nobody need take any action against the Baha’is.

The Iranian Mullas were foolish when they started killing the believers in Bahaullah. There was no need to kill any one. It was all wrong to kill any Baha’i. It was against the Islamic principle of “No Compulsion in religion.”

It appears that Bab claimed to be Mahdi. Bahaullah claimed to be the Jesus second coming. Bab claimed to be the 12th Imam according to Shia theology. The 12th Imam had been believed to be in the hiding for the last 600 (or more) years. The Shias belieev that the 12th Imam was born and went into hiding. That he will appear at some time. They do not believe that he will be born afresh. So how come Bab was born in Iran. It means he could not be the same person who disappeared 600 years ago.

Also, the Baha’is sprouted from the Muslims. Muslims believe that “There is no Mahdi except Isa”. (Hadith of Ibne Majah). There is enough proof available that Mahdi and Isa are going to be one person, not two.

But most Muslims believe that mahdi and Isa will be two difefrent persons. Mahdi will arrive before Isa a.s. In the Hadith it is written that there will a situation of war and Isa a.s. will come to help Mahdi. The Mahdi will be a bloody Mahdi who will not spare any life. That is the belief of the so-Called Mullas. It is not true at all. Specially, if there is no Mahdi except Isa (Jesus), then there has to be one person who should come, not two persons. How come we have Bab and Bahaullah?? have they come according to Islamic prophesies?? Or they have come according to the christian prophesies?? Arthra should tell us. And should provide the reference too.

We are Thankful to Arthra for making us wise on history of bahaism.

**Fear not planten, the Sunni don’t believe you are a muslim as an Ahmadi.

Just like the Ba’hai.**

 

[planten]

So basically they are to Muslims what Muslims are to Christians.

Perhaps. I amy try to amend the formula with your permission, as follows:

They are to Muslims as JW’s are to Christians. or equally:

They are to Muslims as mormons are to Christians

 

[planten]

**Fear not planten, the Sunni don’t believe you **are a muslim as an Ahmadi.

Just like the Ba’hai.

jakasaki, You are right. The Sunnis or the Shias or any other sect (wahhabis etc) will not consider me as a Muslim, I am afraid. If I followed Mirza Ghulam Ahmad of Qadian then:

1. I have to believe that he was the Imam Mahdi as well as the Promised Masiha. he claimed to be the Masiha promised by the prophet Muhammad. That is the second coming of Jesus.
2. I have to be peaceful and good natured person, which I would like to be. But it is difficult.
3. Like the Baha’is, I will have to believe in non-violence, non-combatance. That Masiha openly announced that there were not to be any religious wars any more.
4. There are quite a few other good things. But I will have to pay a part of my earnings to support the cause of Islam i.e. the Ahmadi version of Islam.

More later, if I can know more things…

 

[Usbek_de_Perse]

jakasaki, You are right. The Sunnis or the Shias or any other sect (wahhabis etc) will not consider me as a Muslim, I am afraid. If I followed Mirza Ghulam Ahmad of Qadian then:

1. I have to believe that he was the Imam Mahdi as well as the Promised Masiha. he claimed to be the Masiha promised by the prophet Muhammad. That is the second coming of Jesus.
2. I have to be peaceful and good natured person, which I would like to be. But it is difficult.
3. Like the Baha’is, I will have to believe in non-violence, non-combatance. That Masiha openly announced that there were not to be any religious wars any more.
4. There are quite a few other good things. But I will have to pay a part of my earnings to support the cause of Islam i.e. the Ahmadi version of Islam.

More later, if I can know more things…

I am a former Baha’i of 30 years, now back in Episcopal Church.

The Baha’i Faith sees its founder, Baha’u’llah, as the latest in a series of divine messengers or “manifestations of God”. The most recent previous messenger was Muhammad, then Christ, then Zoroaster, then Moses, and including but not in chronological order Krishna and the Buddha. They believe that God sends a messenger from time to time in order to move human understanding and civilization along, and to bring humanity closer to God.

They believe that Baha’u’llah is the Return of Christ, the Qa’im for Shi’ia Islam, the Mahdi for Sunni Islam, the Lord of Hosts for the Jews, the Maitreya Buddha, etc.

Baha’is themselves do not consider themselves to be Muslims. They make a point of saying that an Egyptian court in the 1920s forbad burial of Baha’is in a Muslim cemetary. So, they are not trying to get to Mecca, in any case.

The Baha’i faith does not believe in a trinitarian God as we Christians do, and this poses problems of consistency, as it is clear from early Christian documents that Christ and his apostles clearly taught just that.

Baha’is follow a moral code that is quite admirable. They do permit divorce as Islam does.

I would say that the Baha’i faith is despite all its proclaimed comprehensiveness, really just a Christianized Islam, without any of the usual trappings of Christianity. There are no clergy, no sacraments, and no set forms of corporate worship.

Baha’is, like all religions, have a certain jargon vocabulary that can be confusing, but Baha’i meetings are, apparently, now open to the public. Certain ones were closed in the past.

 

[Nine_Two]

Perhaps. I amy try to amend the formula with your permission, as follows:

They are to Muslims as JW’s are to Christians. or equally:

They are to Muslims as mormons are to Christians

My understanding is your sect is the JWs and the Mormons of the Muslims.

 

[Usbek_de_Perse]

My understanding is your sect is the JWs and the Mormons of the Muslims.

The difference is this: Baha’is consider themselves to be part of a independent religion. They do not call themselves Muslim.

JWs and Mormons call themselves Christian. Though they are not Christian, they want to be in the Christian tent.