What is "Baptism in the Spirit"?

[OnlyJesusSave]

I am baptised in the Spirit. :extrahappy: I have danced in the spirit, I speak in tongue. LET ME TELL YOU WHAT IT FEELS LIKE HAVING THE HOLY SPIRIT INSIDE YOU.

I will describe it the same way the bible says ‘I feel a river of living water runing in all my body’ It is amazing. I feel a fire inside me runing for all my body as living water. My body shakes and my tongue talks along a language that I don’t know.

Also, I feel the happiness Jesus promised. This is a happiness that is inside me all the time. If i have money to eat or not always I am happy. And the peace that I got from Jesus is undescriptible. Sometimes you want to have peace and you think well if I live alone I will get it because my family is hard to live with. However, let me tell you that you only get loneliness and frustation but not peace. However, the real peace is in Jesus and Jesus is inside us. This is a peace that never abandons you. You may have problem with everybody in your house but you have a special peace that takes you to happiness that even when around you only there are complains and fights.

I believe in Jesus as my enough savior and helper. I PRISE HIM WITH HAPPINESS NOT WITH SADNESS BECAUSE HE IS ALIVE! I don’t need to ask for help to any other God. Because you can make gods of everything. You can make money a god and say I am secure with my money but the faith in OUR LORD is enouth, you can make your job a god, everything that you give more or equal importance than God/Jesus you turn it into a god. But I may say, even you give less importance is a god because GOD CAN NOT BE SUBSTITUTED WITH NOTHING You may say "that is not true because I love god more than Saint ? or more than Virgen ? You may say ’ I only honor Mary or Saint S… But God says that he doesn’t share his glory WITH NOBODY. "

But Jesus says:

"He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him."John 14:21

"If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father’s commandments, and abide in his love"John 15:10

:bible1: THEN, WHAT IS THE FIRST COMMANDMENT? SO WE CAN SAY WE LOVE GOD/JESUS:

"Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth."Exodus 20:4

"Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38This is the first and great commandment."Matthew 22:37-38

 

[Rosemary238]

I can only speak of my experience as I am not very well versed in Theology - Catholic or Protestant.
All I know is that when our priest introduced our Church to Charismatic Renewal and began Life in the Spirit seminars, there was an increased interest in people wanting to go to Mass more often, spend time with Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament, and generally become more loving and kind towards one another. Lots of healings took place. People who hadn’t been to Mass for years suddenly began to come back. Peolple who were diagnosed with terminal illnesses started to come to our Church to find comfort and solace and healing. Many of them converted to the faith before they died.Many renewed their faith. Young and old people found their lives changing in a dynamic way. Whenever they met outside church they talked about Jesus and what He was doing in their lives.
Charismatic Renewal brought us all closer to Our Lord and renewed our faith. That is all I can testify to, and and I would wish everyone could have the same experience in their lives.

 

[Madaglan]

I can only speak of my experience as I am not very well versed in Theology - Catholic or Protestant.
All I know is that when our priest introduced our Church to Charismatic Renewal and began Life in the Spirit seminars, there was an increased interest in people wanting to go to Mass more often, spend time with Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament, and generally become more loving and kind towards one another. Lots of healings took place. People who hadn’t been to Mass for years suddenly began to come back. Peolple who were diagnosed with terminal illnesses started to come to our Church to find comfort and solace and healing. Many of them converted to the faith before they died.Many renewed their faith. Young and old people found their lives changing in a dynamic way. Whenever they met outside church they talked about Jesus and what He was doing in their lives.
Charismatic Renewal brought us all closer to Our Lord and renewed our faith. That is all I can testify to, and and I would wish everyone could have the same experience in their lives.

I think the Catholic Charismatic movement is in many ways similiar to revivalism in the Protestant churches:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revivalism

Revivals bring many good things: an increased personal devotion to the teachings of Scripture and/or the Church, rooting out of sin, personal repentance, missionary activity, etc.

I attended a “charismatic”-oriented Catholic school for about two years. Many people were truly involved with the charismatic movement and thought it great, but I noticed that a good number of people eventually left it or altered their views of it at least. Some people told me about the problem of the spiritual highs; one cannot always be “alive” in the Spirit. One may attend a Festival of Praise and feel as though the Spirit is filling you and lifting you up, but afterwards, one returns to the normal world, and experiences a sense of spiritual dryness, until the next Festival of Praise… Some other friends became wary of the speaking in tongues, believing that many people were speaking gibberish instead of actually having the gift of tongues…

In short, I think it great that people are coming back to the church after long lapses, but I fear what others have pointed out, that revivals are often short-term gains, and the very people drawn in by the revival are often the ones who return to their previous way of life after the revival has died down.

 

[noumenon]

Recieving the gift of the HOLY GHOST(SPIRIT)…It dosen’t take very many words to descibe what it is.

 

[Nan_S]

Ok, so we know what being “baptized in the Spirit” or being “slain in the Spirit” are, and how they are manifested. I think most of us have known that for a while.

Will someone please explain to me which scriptures are used to justify and explain these events?

 

[Mary_ann_R]

Ok, so we know what being “baptized in the Spirit” or being “slain in the Spirit” are, and how they are manifested. I think most of us have known that for a while.

Will someone please explain to me which scriptures are used to justify and explain these events?

“The explanation therefore is in God’s plan. We could say, by paraphrasing a famous saying of the Apostle Paul: Because Christians, with all their organization, were not able to transmit the power of the Spirit, God was pleased to renew the believers through the foolishness of the Baptism in the Spirit. In fact theologians look for an explanation and responsible people for moderation, but simple souls touch with their hands the power of Christ in the Baptism of the Spirit (1 Cor 12:1-24).”

Taken from this article by Father Cantalamessa on Baptism in the Holy Spirit from the Catholic Charismatic Center.

Here is another good article on Baptism in the Holy Spirit by Pat Mullins found in the CCC.

 

[sambos671]

“The explanation therefore is in God’s plan. We could say, by paraphrasing a famous saying of the Apostle Paul: Because Christians, with all their organization, were not able to transmit the power of the Spirit, God was pleased to renew the believers through the foolishness of the Baptism in the Spirit. In fact theologians look for an explanation and responsible people for moderation, but simple souls touch with their hands the power of Christ in the Baptism of the Spirit (1 Cor 12:1-24).”

Taken from this article by Father Cantalamessa on Baptism in the Holy Spirit from the Catholic Charismatic Center.

Here is another good article on Baptism in the Holy Spirit by Pat Mullins found in the CCC.

Is no one conserned about how close to Montanus and his followers that these practices are? Generally when gentile believers became believers the Holy Spirit was expressed not a second baptism but on belief. We see this in the Acts of the Apostles. The only divergence was on Pentecost which embolden the Apostles to Spread the Gospels. I see no evidence to support a second Baptism apart from the empowering of the Holy Spirit for the Apostles on the day of Pencost.

 

[noumenon]

Ok, so we know what being “baptized in the Spirit” or being “slain in the Spirit” are, and how they are manifested. I think most of us have known that for a while.

Will someone please explain to me which scriptures are used to justify and explain these events?

So what is the tread about?

 

[noumenon]

Ok, so we know what being “baptized in the Spirit” or being “slain in the Spirit” are, and how they are manifested. I think most of us have known that for a while.

Will someone please explain to me which scriptures are used to justify and explain these events?

So what is the thread about?

 

[Mary_ann_R]

Is no one conserned about how close to Montanus and his followers that these practices are? Generally when gentile believers became believers the Holy Spirit was expressed not a second baptism but on belief. We see this in the Acts of the Apostles. The only divergence was on Pentecost which embolden the Apostles to Spread the Gospels. I see no evidence to support a second Baptism apart from the empowering of the Holy Spirit for the Apostles on the day of Pencost.

Read: John 1,33, Matt 3,11, Mark 1,8, Luke 3,16. To baptize means to emerse, so we are emersed in water when we are baptized to become christians and the Baptism of the Holy Spirit means we are emerged in the life of the Holy Spirit. It is not a seperate baptism.

 

[Bamm]

Ok, so we know what being “baptized in the Spirit” or being “slain in the Spirit” are, and how they are manifested. I think most of us have known that for a while.

Will someone please explain to me which scriptures are used to justify and explain these events?

Bible passages from: newadvent.org/bible/

English (Douay-Rheims)

{The following passages are the same incidence written by the different Gospel authors. Note that John the Baptist is speaking to many people who had come to him to be baptized by water for the remission of sin including Jesus. However, Jesus also received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit instantly after His water baptism (the dove landing on his shoulder). Many theologians teach that Jesus did not perform any miracles until after His baptism where he received the spirit and the power of His father.}

Matthew Chapter 3

1. I (John) indeed baptize you in water unto penance, but He (Jesus) that shall come after me, is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: He (Jesus) shall baptize you in the Holy Ghost and fire.

(Pharisees and Sadducees… These were two sects among the Jews: of which the former were for the most part notorious hypocrites; the latter, a kind of freethinkers in matters of religion.)

Mark Chapter 1

1. John was in the desert, baptizing and preaching the baptism of penance, unto remission of sins. 5. And there went out to him all the country of Judea and all they of Jerusalem and were baptized by him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins. 6. And John was clothed with camel’s hair, and a leathern girdle about his loins; and he ate locusts and wild honey. 7. And he preached, saying: There cometh after me one mightier than I, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to stoop down and loose. 8. I have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.

Luke Chapter 3

1. And the publicans also came to be baptized and said to him: Master, what shall we do? 13. But he said to them: Do nothing more than that which is appointed you. 14. And the soldiers also asked him, saying: And what shall we do? And he said to them: Do violence to no man, neither calumniate any man; and be content with your pay. 15. And as the people were of opinion, and all were thinking in their hearts of John, that perhaps he might be the Christ: 16. John answered, saying unto all: I indeed baptize you with water: but there shall come one mightier than I, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to loose. He shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire;

John Chapter 1

1. John answered them, saying: I baptize with water: but there hath stood one in the midst of you, whom you know not. 27. The same is he that shall come after me, who is preferred before me: the latchet of whose shoe I am not worthy to loose. 28. These things were done in Bethania, beyond the Jordan, where John was baptizing. 29. The next day, John saw Jesus coming to him; and he saith: Behold the Lamb of God. Behold him who taketh away the sin of the world. 30. This is he of whom I said: After me there cometh a man, who is preferred before me: because he was before me. 31. And I knew him not: but that he may be made manifest in Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water. 32. And John gave testimony, saying: I saw the Spirit coming down, as a dove from heaven; and he remained upon him. 33. And I knew him not: but he who sent me to baptize with water said to me: He upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending and remaining upon him, he it is that baptizeth with the Holy Ghost. 34. And I saw: and I gave testimony that this is the Son of God.

Acts Chapter 2

After Peter gives his speech on the day of Pentecost the people ask him what they needed to do and he told them:

Do penance: and be baptized (water) every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ, for the remission of your sins. And you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. 39. For the promise is to you and to your children and to all that are far off, whomsoever the Lord our God shall call.

Acts Chapter 10

1. You know the word which hath been published through all Judea: for it began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached. 38. Jesus of Nazareth: how God anointed him with the Holy Ghost and with power, who went about doing good and healing all that were oppressed by the devil, for God was with him.

{The following are cases where the believers were baptized with the Holy Spirit before having received water baptism. Which shows that both water and spirit baptism is important.}

1. While Peter was yet speaking these words, the Holy Ghost fell (Spirit Baptism) on all them that heard the word. 45. And the faithful of the circumcision, who came with Peter, were astonished for that the grace of the Holy Ghost was poured out upon the Gentiles also. 46. For they heard them speaking with tongues and magnifying God. 47. Then Peter answered: Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, (water) who have received the Holy Ghost, as well as we? 48. And he commanded them to be baptized (water) in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. Then they desired him to tarry with them some days.

Acts Chapter 18

1. Now a certain Jew, named Apollo, born at Alexandria, an eloquent man, came to Ephesus, one mighty in the scriptures. 25. This man was instructed in the way of the Lord: and being fervent in spirit, spoke and taught diligently the things that are of Jesus, knowing only the baptism of John. 26. This man therefore began to speak boldly in the synagogue.

Acts Chapter 19

1. And it came to pass, while Apollo was at Corinth, that Paul, having passed through the upper coasts, came to Ephesus and found certain disciples. 2. And he said to them: Have you received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? But they said to him: We have not so much as heard whether there be a Holy Ghost. 3. And he said: In what then were you baptized? Who said: In John’s baptism. 4. Then Paul said: John baptized the people with the baptism of penance saying: That they should believe in him, who was to come after him, that is to say, in Jesus. 5. Having heard these things, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6. And when Paul had imposed his hands on them, the Holy Ghost came upon them: and they spoke with tongues and prophesied. 7. And all the men were about twelve.

1 Corinthians Chapter 12

1. Now concerning spiritual things, my brethren, I would not have you ignorant. 2. You know that when you were heathens, you went to dumb idols, according as you were led. 3. Wherefore, I give you to understand that no man, speaking by the Spirit of God, saith Anathema to Jesus. And no man can say The Lord Jesus, but by the Holy Ghost. 4. Now there are diversities of graces, but the same Spirit. 5. And there are diversities of ministries but the same Lord. 6. And there are diversities of operations, but the same God, who worketh all in all. 7. And the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man unto profit. 8. To one indeed, by the Spirit, is given the word of wisdom: and to another, the word of knowledge, according to the same Spirit: 9. To another, faith in the same spirit: to another, the grace of healing in one Spirit: 10. To another the working of miracles: to another, prophecy: to another, the discerning of spirits: to another, diverse kinds of tongues: to another, interpretation of speeches. 11. But all these things, one and the same Spirit worketh, dividing to every one according as he will.
2. For as the body is one and hath many members; and all the members of the body, whereas they are many, yet are one body: So also is Christ. 13. For in one Spirit were we all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Gentiles, whether bond or free: and in one Spirit we have all been made to drink. 14. For the body also is not one member, but many.

These passages show that there are for certain 2 baptisms. However, the believer can receive them in many different ways. Some can receive both at the same time like Jesus did. I have heard of that. But, there are some of us that receive the Spirit separately, maybe with a big bang and maybe through a slow and steady flow.

As for the people who attended a “revival meeting” and were gung ho for the Lord and then fizzled out, I would suggest that perhaps it was like the parable of the seeds.

In Corinthians Paul teaches us that not everyone receives the ability to speak or interpret tongues. The gifts of the spirit are many and varied. Read the rest of 1 Corinthians Chapter 12 where Paul talks about the body and its many parts.

 

[peary]

Quote:
The “Baptism in the Spirit” is the initiation rite used by Charismatic Catholics. It is central to the Charismatic Renewal Movement, and one cannot separate the Charismatic Renewal Movement from the “Baptism in the Spirit.” The Pope has commended the Charismatic Renewal for its role in evangelization today.

originally posted by Peter J:
“Baptism in the Spirit” isn’t a rite. I’d call it a special grace that Catholic Charismatics (and other Charismatics) pray for.
(That’s all I want to say about it, but others may wish to improve upon my description.)

**This is a very good site to better understand the concept:

www.catholic-jhb.org.za/articles/baptism.htm**

 

[wisdomseeker]

“Baptism in the Spirit” isn’t a rite. I’d call it a special grace that Catholic Charismatics (and other Charismatics) pray for.

(That’s all I want to say about it, but others may wish to improve upon my description.)

my experience with this is when i went to this assembly of God congregation i saw the pastor or evangelist praying over people and they began to yell, going around and aroung falling over the chair, falling from the chair. it look pretty scary to me. pure sensationalism.
the members could not wait to go to their congregation so they could do all over again. they also seem obcessed with prophecy. and they bring these visitors who come and guess what goes in their lives and how they are going to succeed financially and goes on and on…

all i can tell you is it made me not want to go back anymore.

please tell me Catholics dont do that.

“**I should not believe the Gospel except as moved by the authority of the Catholic Church.”
Saint Augustine (354-430), Against the Letter of Mani, 5,6, 397 A.D… **

 

[Wyatt]

I believe in the concept of spiritual renewal. I think everyone needs a little of that now and then, which is why people go on Catholic Retreats and such as that. I do take issue with calling it “Baptism in the Spirit” because that implies that there is more than one Baptism…when the Creed clearly professes “we believe in One Baptism for the forgiveness of sins.”

 

[guanophore]

How about a procedure? “Baptism” is used as a euphemism for the procedure, since there is but one water baptism in Christianity.

There are some other types of “baptism”, however.

However, in many cases, a priest lays hands on, and prays over a person who is willing to make themselves completely available to the Holy Spirit, the intent being the release of the gifts of the Holy Spirit which were received at Confirmation. This is commonly known as being “slain in the Spirit”

I dont’ agree with this. I fear that, in “many cases” there are no clergy at all ,a nd the laying on of hands is done by laypeople.

I further disagree that such an activity is equated to “slain in the Spirit”, since this is a reference to a falling phenomenon that does not always occur, and should not be confused with praying for the release of the gifts of the Spirit.

For some reason, this is controversial in Catholicism. Likely it is because of some excesses in the charismatic movement. An example is where a leader insists that all speak in tongues. Now, tongues has its place, make no mistake. However, many do not receive the gift of tongues, as the Holy Spirit gives these gifts as He wills.

Catholics, by and large, tend to experience the Spirit liturgically, and this is about the opposite.

Saint Paul believes that the gift of prophecy is more to be desired than tongues. He writes of this at some length in 1 Corinthians. Catholicism has lost much of the use of charisms, and such use now causes controversy. It should not. We should see healings and other miracles routinely, as was observed in the early church. How can we say “nothing is impossible to God” and then resign ourselves to life as it is? Where is our faith?

I think it is not a lack of faith, as there are many faithful Catholics. I think it is a lack of practice, and that the Church has focused primarily on the characterological gifts of the Spirit, and the fruit of the Spirit, rather than charismatic gifts.

Again, many Catholics see Penatcostalism as a danger or threat, even though the Pentacostals got everything they have from Catholicism! It’s time to take it back! I have seen minor miracles of healing in prayer before Christ in the Blessed Sacrament. Why this is not stressed even more nowadays is beyond me.

Precisely BECAUSE Pentacostalism is a danger and a threat. It is frought with heresy and doctrinal error, and has led many astray. I agree that the Church needs to take back the charisms, but too often it is mixed with contaminants.

Sadly, you may expect to be roundly criticized, if not condemned, in some circles because of the use of charisms. This is extremely sad, especially in this day and age. The Lord conceived of and gave these charisms for a reason. Should they be ignored while we expect His grace to flow automatically?

God’s grace flows through the Sacraments as well, and those who are comfortable with this avenue of grace should not be criticized either.

If there is a “Life in the Spirit” seminar offered at your parish, or a neighboring parish, I can only recommend most sincerely that you investigate. I had to be convinced to attend one. My faith life exploded ever since and bears no resemblance to the lukewarm Catholic I was before. Praise God!

It was this that brought me back to the Sacraments after a long sojourn in Protestant circles. I am very grateful that this happened, and that I can now experience the graces in many forms.

I think most people are afraid of charisms because they require a relinquishment of control, and this is very hard for some of us. It also runs the risk of other unwanted influences, as have been frequently noted on this board.

Christ’s peace.

 

[guanophore]

The One Baptism that truly effect change in our lives is through the baptism in the Holy Spirit. It is the work of God in our lives…it is the act, wrought through faith where by God regenerates the believer and infuses…baptises…immerses us in His Spirit filling us with newness of Life.

“A man can enter the waters of baptism a dry sinner and exit a wet sinner…but no one baptized in the Holy Spirit can remain the same…” It is the True Baptism which “saves” and “regenerates” and makes us “new creations”…“new creatures in Christ”. It is the act of God in our lives…this Baptism makes us One in Christ and makes us members of the Body of Christ.

This is not the case with Catholic baptism. In the sacrament, all sins are washed away, and the Holy Spirit is infused into the soul, creating a new creature in Christ. The Apostles taught that the Spirit was joined to the waters of baptism when Jesus entered them, and that water is not separated from the baptism of the Holy Spirit, by whose power we are born again from the water.

I can’t believe a Cahtolic would call it a "baptism of the Holy Spirit. That is protestant jargon. That resides with Pentecostals and Charasmatics. Which are too close to Montanistic beliefs to be trusted. In Pentecostal view there are two baptism each necissary for the believer. Baptism of obedience and recognition of salvation and a Baptism of the Holy Spirit for enabling the christian to do works which is evidenced in the speaking of tongues. I can’t believe catholics would agree with this.

Catholics do, believe you me. It is Protestant jargon, but there are former Pentecostals and Catholic charismatics. I agree that Pentecostal theology should not be trusted, however, that does not nullify the work of the Spirit. Catholics believe that we are born again and indwelt with the Spirit at baptism, and that there is only One Baptism for the forgiveness of sins.

In fact, the Charismatic movement would be sorely out of place in a traditional Latin setting, ie - not the Novus Ordo as commonly done.

I disagree, but I may have had different experiences than you have. However, please try to remember that the Catholic Church is much larger than the Latin Rite.

I have often heard BiS described as the stirring up of the graces of Baptism and Confirmation. This is a borderline idea as it suggests that the Sacraments of Initiation are not enough in themselves as sufficient sustainers of the Catholic spiritual life. Even more so, it would seem to down play the role of the Eucharist as Spiritual food.*

I think this is actually a very good description, and stirring up the graces present is much more traditionally Catholic language than the Pentecostal 'Baptism in the HS". Perhaps “rekindle” is better?

“For this reason I remind you to rekindle the gift of God that is within you through the laying on of my hands; 7 for God did not give us a spirit of cowardice, but rather a spirit of power and of love and of self-discipline.” 2 Tim 1:5-7

In conclusion, the BiS is the resurrection of a previously condemned practice born and reborn outside of the Church and perilously adapted within the fold of the Church.

God Bless,
R.

I think there may be some truth to what you are saying, but we have to keep in mind that the charisms of Pentecost are Catholic, have always been Catholic, and are still Catholic. Like many other things that have been removed from the context of Apostolic Teaching, the understanding of them (just like the Scripture) has been twisted and distorted with destructive outcomes. However, just as the distortion of Scripture by fundamentalists does not subtract from it’s holiness and use, neither does the distortion of the charismatic gifts of Pentecost nullify their value.

• On an side note. When I went to college there was a monthly charismatic prayer event at which the Eucharist was always present for adoration. When I went to graduate school (different university), there was a similar event monthly, but there was only adoration a one a semester. I inquired as to why. I was told, that it was so that focus would not be taken off of the Holy Spirit. I wasn’t aware that you could adore one Divine Person without the other Two?

This is a good example of a misunderstanding.

I thought “baptism in the spirit” only applied to Jesus, the apostles, and those whom the apostles personally baptised. For example, when Philip the Deacon went down to Samaria after the persecution in Jerusulem and baptized a bunch of people, a couple of apostles came down from Jerusulem later and re-baptised them “In the Spirit”. Although Philip had been baptised in the spirit, he himself couldn’t baptise others in the spirit. This is what the Book of Acts tells us…

The book of acts does not say that Phillip could not pray for the Spirit to fall upon the converts. It just says “had not yet fallen”. At that point, the Spirit was wishing to establish the authority of the Apostles through the bestowing of this gift. They were not “rebaptized”, It was more like the spirit was released to them.

 

[guanophore]

The bolded part concerns me. It suggests, in context, that all persons who did not receive the “charismatic” gifts at the sacrament of confirmation were not adequately prepared for that sacrament.

It seems to suggest that all Catholics who are baptized and confirmed are walking around with “unopened boxes” of special charismatic graces. In order to fully and truly experience the Holy Spirit, you need to tap into these unopened boxes.

I understand your concern, but I think that the bolded parts do have validity. Catholics are not prepared for a charismatic experience at confirmation, and therefore, generally don’t experience it as such. I would note, however, that everyone receives the charismatic gifts both in baptism, and confirmation. Scripture is clear that Spirit imparts all the gifts. I think that most Catholics are not educated about these, as they are with the character gifts (Isaiah), so don’t receive them with expectant faith, or any instruction on how to use them. When I was teaching the High School confirmation classes, we never discussed these. The curriculum included only the other gifts. I personally can attest that not all Catholics are walking around with “unopened boxes” but too many of them are. If this were not the case, people would not fall into Protestant pursuasion. I am convinced that, anyone who understands and experiences the fullness of the Catholic faith, would have no need or desire to go elsewhere in search of spiritual fulfillment.

Yes, I understand. The charismatic graces themselves appear in Scripture, so no one can attack the validity of the gifts themselves. One thing I would suggest, however, is that the charismatic gifts may not be for everyone, and it just may be that God does not intend every baptized person to speak in tongues. “Charismatic” gifts such as glossolalia do not indicate spiritual maturity. The Corinthians who were well known for their glossolalia, were spiritually immature. In fact, as they are purely gifts, “charismatic” gifts are no indication of the level of sanctity or spiritual maturity of the person who has them.

I agree about the maturity part. I think this is one reason that the Catholic Church has leaned more toward the spiritual gifts of character than the charismatic ones. However, I disagree that everyone does not recieve charismatic gifts. I think that every beleiver receives all of these, or the potential for them, at baptism and confirmation. Most just don’t know what they are, or how to use them, so they go untapped.

Ok, so we know what being “baptized in the Spirit” or being “slain in the Spirit” are, and how they are manifested. I think most of us have known that for a while.

Will someone please explain to me which scriptures are used to justify and explain these events?

Why would Scripture be needed to “justify” the work of the Spirit? Did the Holy Spirit need to be “justified” by Scripture when He infilled the Apostles on Pentecost? If you are looking for Scripture, it is right there in the second chapter of Acts!

Are you suggesting that the actions of the Holy Spirit recorded in scripture are not from God?

Is no one conserned about how close to Montanus and his followers that these practices are? Generally when gentile believers became believers the Holy Spirit was expressed not a second baptism but on belief. We see this in the Acts of the Apostles. The only divergence was on Pentecost which embolden the Apostles to Spread the Gospels. I see no evidence to support a second Baptism apart from the empowering of the Holy Spirit for the Apostles on the day of Pencost.

I guess this does not concern me because I was never taught this. I was taught that it was a release of the Spirit received in Confirmation. It was explained to me like this; that when we are baptized, we are wired for electricity. If we are properly formed in the faith (which I was not) then the light switch is on. In confirmation, we become responsible for our own light switch, which previously was installed by the HS through the faith of our parents and godparents.

 

[tundramom]

Just for clarification: slain in the Spirit may be the occasioning experience of Baptism in the Spirit, but it also happens at “healing Masses” to those persons not yet “Baptized in the
Spirit.”

I don’t think we’re using “slain in the Spirit” correctly… or maybe I understand it differently?

Everything I was told in the A/G church I attended was that being slain in the Spirit is what it’s called when you fall down. You know, like when you are prayed for and there’s two guys behind you to catch you as you fall and then you lay there for a few minutes?

in Christ
Steph

 

[jewelz]

Matthew 3:11
"I [John the Baptist] baptize you with water for repentance. But after me will come one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not fit to carry. He [Jesus] will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.

Luke 3:16
John answered them all, "I baptize you with water. But one more powerful than I will come, the thongs of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.

John 20
21 Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.” 22 And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit.”

Jesus is the one who baptizes with the Holy Spirit and with FIRE.
People only baptize people with water as symbolism.
You will know if you are baptized when you receive the gifts and power/manifestations of the Holy Spirit.
Initially, this is the evidence of speaking in tongues, a sign to the unbelievers.

 

[guanophore]

my experience with this is when i went to this assembly of God congregation i saw the pastor or evangelist praying over people and they began to yell, going around and aroung falling over the chair, falling from the chair. it look pretty scary to me. pure sensationalism.
the members could not wait to go to their congregation so they could do all over again. they also seem obcessed with prophecy. and they bring these visitors who come and guess what goes in their lives and how they are going to succeed financially and goes on and on…

all i can tell you is it made me not want to go back anymore.

please tell me Catholics dont do that.

I first encountered Catholic Charismatics in 1979. From that day until this, I have never seen anything like that. This to me sounds like chicanery or fortune telling. Prophesy is about speaking the eternal truth of God into the present, not about prediciting the future.

I don’t think we’re using “slain in the Spirit” correctly… or maybe I understand it differently?

Everything I was told in the A/G church I attended was that being slain in the Spirit is what it’s called when you fall down. You know, like when you are prayed for and there’s two guys behind you to catch you as you fall and then you lay there for a few minutes?

in Christ
Steph

This has been my experience also.

Matthew 3:11
"I [John the Baptist] baptize you with water for repentance. But after me will come one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not fit to carry. He [Jesus] will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.

Luke 3:16
John answered them all, "I baptize you with water. But one more powerful than I will come, the thongs of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.

John 20
21 Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.” 22 And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit.”

Jesus is the one who baptizes with the Holy Spirit and with FIRE.
People only baptize people with water as symbolism.
You will know if you are baptized when you receive the gifts and power/manifestations of the Holy Spirit.
Initially, this is the evidence of speaking in tongues, a sign to the unbelievers.

What you are saying here is “another gospel”, since it is a departure from what we have received from the Apostles. The Apostles taught that baptism is how one is "born again of water and the Spirit. When one is baptized, people are involved, but it is Jesus who is the baptizer. This is not “symbolic” but actually buries the old man, separating us from the bondage of sin by participating in Christ’s death. I agree, however, that a baptized person receives the gifts and power of the Holy Spirit. Sometimes one of these is speaking in tongues.