What is being taught at Harvard University that make some Catholics lose their faith?

[Abba]

I met some Catholics back in the late 80s (e.g. an ex-nun) who told me that as they earned their doctorate degrees that they had become less Catholic or questioned their faith or left the Church mostly to become atheists. A couple of weeks ago, I hired a tutor who just earned her Ph.d. from Harvard this week in psychology. She is an only child from a Catholic family and she told me that she is no longer Catholic with an expression as though she did not want to blow my bubble with her intellectual understandings. She respects my faith with care, kind of like patting me on the head with tender love but, with a view as though she knows better. Of course, at the proper time, you can be sure, the discussion will be opened. But, I am just wondering, for now, what is it exactly that is being taught at Harvard that makes, at least some Catholics, lose their faith?

Thanks,

Abba

 

[AnneTeresa]

I think you answered this question yourself with your mention of her “intellectual understandings.” I work at a major research University. From what I see, it is people’s belief in themselves, in their own intellectual understanding, that kills their faith. It is the whole atmosphere at these institutions that can kill faith.

The types of courses offered are part of the problem, as well as what is in the curriculum. (In some academic majors where I work, Women’s Studies is required and many of the things studied are blatantly in opposition to Catholic teaching.) The extreme atmosphere of being “politically correct” and “all inclusive” has led to things going the other direction where anything that hints at clear moral values is snubbed and looked down upon.

There is a culture of relativism that is hard to p(name removed by moderator)oint in any specific things that are said, but it pervades everything, all in the name of intellectual pursuit and being “open minded.” Often these people are very smart, very accomplished, and they feel they do not need anything else, including faith, because they can work everything out themselves.

 

[thirddec]

My sister complained of the same ; she said all they did was learn of theological arguements and were never encouraged to live their faith. If you disect a flower into all its component parts you loose the beauty of the flower. Forrest for Trees etc.

Luckily for her she seen some Evangelical Americans preaching and whilr not agreeing with them she thought jokingly to herself. "God if I could only have a little of the faith they have I’d be happy ". God answered her joking prayer and she said that slowly from that moment on she began to find her path back into her faith and practice and now Loves the Mass and Eucharist and feels a real relationship with Christ

 

[Abba]

Thank you Anne Teresa for your contribution.

I think you answered this question yourself with your mention of her “intellectual understandings.” I work at a major research University. From what I see, it is people’s belief in themselves, in their own intellectual understanding, that kills their faith. It is the whole atmosphere at these institutions that can kill faith.

The types of courses offered are part of the problem, as well as what is in the curriculum. (In some academic majors where I work, Women’s Studies is required and many of the things studied are blatantly in opposition to Catholic teaching.) The extreme atmosphere of being “politically correct” and “all inclusive” has led to things going the other direction where anything that hints at clear moral values is snubbed and looked down upon.

There is a culture of relativism that is hard to p(name removed by moderator)oint in any specific things that are said, but it pervades everything, all in the name of intellectual pursuit and being “open minded.” Often these people are very smart, very accomplished, and they feel they do not need anything else, including faith, because they can work everything out themselves.

Yes, the importance given to their intellectual capacity seem to have a subtle effect on them. It is not that these once faithful Catholics were attacked and confronted but, it’s more like they were bitten by a poisonous snake and the venom takes a effects and strengthens in time without the person really being aware until one day they think as if with an after thought; religious belief - that’s foolish. Yeah, it’s like a fungus that enters the body undetected and keeps growing and growing and the person never really comes to be aware of the presence of the fungus or poison and just continues life with its effects. I say this because it is an inner process that was never a confrontation.

I just wondered if the curriculum was intentionally designed to have this effect. I just wonder if it is peculiar to Harvard. Of course, Harvard and Yale are really connected; the academic exchange is very active - so from where ever this originated it certainly has spread in certain academic circles. There are certain agendas being promoted also and I wonder how the promoters are affecting the curriculum etc… (e.g. homosexuality).

But, I definately appreciate your evaluation. I remember some years back that at some fine universities in New England it was unacceptable for a science student to claim faith in God or he/she would risk ridicule. Scientists were on top of the world. Yet, I remember meeting a microbiologist who was just about to finish his PhD and we discussed exactly the attitude of scientists towards religion etc… He shared with me that he was not a person of great faith previous to indulging in science. He disagreed with the general position of scientists and told me that he had become a faithful christian exactly because of his scientific studies. He told me that there was a time when he was examining certain things which he would magnify thousands of times and the deeper he looked in - the more splendid and beautiful that micro world became with its intricate details and intelligent systems. He said that it would take more faith to think that these things just came to be with such a grand intelligent design than to believe a God exists and created all this.

 

[Abba]

My sister complained of the same ; she said all they did was learn of theological arguements and were never encouraged to live their faith. If you disect a flower into all its component parts you loose the beauty of the flower. Forrest for Trees etc.

Luckily for her she seen some Evangelical Americans preaching and whilr not agreeing with them she thought jokingly to herself. "God if I could only have a little of the faith they have I’d be happy ". God answered her joking prayer and she said that slowly from that moment on she began to find her path back into her faith and practice and now Loves the Mass and Eucharist and feels a real relationship with Christ

Beautiful imagery! Yes, it’s like Humpty Dumpty no longer exists after he fell from the wall and broke into little pieces. So, intelligent but, they can’t put Humpty Dumpty together again.

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What has caught my attention are the Catholics that studied at Harvard and ended up even before earning their degrees atheists.

 

[fhansen]

I agree with the above posts-it’s pride, rather than education, that can actually breed ignorance.

 

[Moontown_Rabbit]

I once had a brief e-mail dialogue with a lady who had a Phd in Religious Studies from Harvard. She appeared to think that religious ideas like the devil were simply “constructs” that people had invented for one reason or another. I don’t think the problem is one of over-intellectualism; few would deny that Chesterton and C.S.Lewis were highly intellectual. The problem is that modern metaphysics has become obsessed with psychology rather than the numinous. If it were possible to reach into someone’s mind and replace their psychological primitives with Christological primitives, all of a sudden we would have a bunch of people who thought like St. Francis and St. Dominic rather than like Freud and Jung.

 

[praxising]

My sister complained of the same ; she said all they did was learn of theological arguements and were never encouraged to live their faith. If you disect a flower into all its component parts you loose the beauty of the flower. Forrest for Trees etc.

Luckily for her she seen some Evangelical Americans preaching and whilr not agreeing with them she thought jokingly to herself. "God if I could only have a little of the faith they have I’d be happy ". God answered her joking prayer and she said that slowly from that moment on she began to find her path back into her faith and practice and now Loves the Mass and Eucharist and feels a real relationship with Christ

I love this answer. I think the problem really lies in how we are Evangelized from childhood. The message is, whether Catholic or Protestant: believe because we say so or believe because the Bible says so (or both).

What if you do? It’s like believing in Santa Clause. Then you grow up and there’s no Santa. People grow up and find out that there were multiple authors of Scripture, that the Bishop of Baltimore just made up Limbo, that the cRCC is as corrupt at a human level as any large organization, and, because they have no relationship with God, but just with a set of people/teachings/book, they fall away. I think churches, including the Church, need to think about this.

thirddec’s sister offered a simple wish from her heart, a childlike desire for her Father. He answered. God is, no matter how many traditions were combined in Genesis and Exodus by how many authors.

 

[JDaniel]

I met some Catholics back in the late 80s (e.g. an ex-nun) who told me that as they earned their doctorate degrees that they had become less Catholic or questioned their faith or left the Church mostly to become atheists. A couple of weeks ago, I hired a tutor who just earned her Ph.d. from Harvard this week in psychology. She is an only child from a Catholic family and she told me that she is no longer Catholic with an expression as though she did not want to blow my bubble with her intellectual understandings. She respects my faith with care, kind of like patting me on the head with tender love but, with a view as though she knows better. Of course, at the proper time, you can be sure, the discussion will be opened. But, I am just wondering, for now, what is it exactly that is being taught at Harvard that makes, at least some Catholics, lose their faith?

Abba:

I think they are being taught that we created God, and not the other way 'round. Probably more so at Harvard than at Yale. Yale has had, in my opinion, a bit more spiritual tradition than Harvard. Years ago, Yale professors were the leaders in the New Critical Method of English Literature. It’s hard to read good literature - i.e., that which persists - and not understand that God and morality are at the heart of it. Just my humble opinion.

God bless,
jd

 

[tonyrey]

If we are to go by the arguments of most atheists who visit this forum it is the widespread belief that science has superseded religion, particularly with regard to the advances in neuroscience - which is thought to be potentially capable of explaining all mental activity in terms of brain processes - and of course evolutionary theory which leads to claims that belief in Creation has been disproved. No doubt the Humanist Chaplaincy at Harvard plays an important role in undermining the faith of Catholics who have no grounding in philosophy or apologetics… :sad_bye:

 

[Abba]

If we are to go by the arguments of most atheists who visit this forum it is the widespread belief that science has superseded religion, particularly with regard to the advances in neuroscience - which is thought to be potentially capable of explaining all mental activity in terms of brain processes - and of course evolutionary theory which leads to claims that belief in Creation has been disproved. No doubt the Humanist Chaplaincy at Harvard plays an important role in undermining the faith of Catholics who have no grounding in philosophy or apologetics… :sad_bye:

Hello tonyrey,

Just quickly dropping by here. Have been quite busy these past weeks. You are correct, and I did notice that they have quite a program for Catholics at Harvard. I have been meaning to comment on the extensive services provided there to Catholics. Hat’s off to them! However, there is a serious problem but it’s causes lie elsewhere.

I will be back, but, I just wanted to notify those participating in this thread that this evening is the encore presentation of Father Groeschel’s show the topic of which is something about the situation for Catholics in higher education. I haven’t seen it but saw it announced a couple of days ago. I think the schedule is 7 eastern and 8 central time.

It’s a funny thing, a lot of the topics I start end up being a topic a couple of weeks later on the Father Groeschel show. This use to happen on another forum I participated on. We are either on the same wave length or the people that search for topics for the program find mine interesting.

Well, I think that this matter DOES indeed need attention as the elite have a tremendous impact on society and culture.

Peace for now,

Abba

 

[Abba]

Oh, boy. I missed it. I thought it was at 7pm but, it was at 5pm. Did anyone watch it? If so, were there any interesting comments?