What Is "Catholic Truth" Regarding Protestants?

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Below is a quote from “Religion news Service” in an article I recently read there.
Pope Says Protestants Not Churches
`In the Proper Sense’
BY FRANCIS X. ROCCA ©2007 Religion News Service

The Vatican on July 10 reasserted the primacy of the Roman Catholic Church, calling other Christian churches defective and saying Protestant denominations are not even churches “in the proper sense.”

The statement, which was “ratified and confirmed” by Pope Benedict XVI and published with his approval, reiterates some of the most controversial ideas in a 2000 Vatican declaration published under Benedict’s authority when he was still Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger.

Tuesday’s four-page document purports to correct “erroneous interpretation” and “misunderstanding” of the teachings of the Second Vatican Council of the 1960s, which paved the way for ecumenical dialogue between Catholics and other Christian churches.

The new document said Vatican II “neither changed nor intended to change” the teaching that the “one Church of Christ … subsists in the Catholic Church” alone. Other Christian denominations, it argues, can also be “instruments of salvation,” but “suffer from defects” insofar as they depart from Catholicism.

Eastern Orthodox churches, though lacking communion with Rome, nonetheless deserve the term “Church” because their priests follow in the succession of bishops and priests that started in the early church, the document explains.

Protestant denominations, however, “because of the absence of the sacramental priesthood, have not preserved the genuine and integral substance of the Eucharistic Mystery,” and are therefore to be termed mere “Christian Communities.”
I would like to ask some questions and to seek some clarifications on some of the thoughts brought out in this article quote I have posted.

1/ Is this really what the Catholic Church believes and teaches? That Protestant Churches, are not really Churches?

What a strange way to promote “Ecumenism.”
 
Below is a quote from “Religion news Service” in an article I recently read there.

I would like to ask some questions and to seek some clarifications on some of the thoughts brought out in this article quote I have posted.

1/ Is this really what the Catholic Church believes and teaches? That Protestant Churches, are not really Churches?

What a strange way to promote “Ecumenism.”
The most ecumenically sensitive part of the new document was its assertion that while the term “sister church” can be used to refer to any of the Orthodox churches, a Christian community born out of the Protestant Reformation cannot be called “church” in the way Catholic theology defines the term.The text said the Orthodox churches, although separated from the Catholic Church, have preserved apostolic succession, the ordained priesthood and the Eucharist. Nevertheless, they “lack something in their condition as particular churches” because they are not in union with the pope.The Protestant communities, however, are not churches because they do not have apostolic succession – the unbroken succession of bishops going back to St. Peter, it said.
The new Vatican document, he said, is looking at the term in a “strictly theological” way, explaining that if the Catholic Church believes apostolic succession and valid sacraments, particularly the Eucharist, are essential aspects of the church established by Christ it cannot recognize as “church” those communities who do not have them.
Bishop Koch also said the document and reactions to it underline a clear difference in the Catholic and Orthodox ecumenical goal and the ecumenical goal of the Protestants.The Catholic and Orthodox churches, he said, aspire to full, visible unity, while the Protestant communities work for mutual recognition of the multiplicity and diversity of churches, “even with their possible contradictions.”
catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0703953.htm
 
Hello,
1/ Is this really what the Catholic Church believes and teaches? That Protestant Churches, are not really Churches?
Yes, in the proper sense they are not ‘Churches’. This is because they have abandoned their Apostolic Succession and the Sacraments. The proper way to describe them is ecclesial Communities.
What a strange way to promote “Ecumenism.”
Why? Ecumenism must begin with Truth.
 
Why? Ecumenism must begin with Truth.
Exactly. Ecumenism would be counterproductive if either side was concealing its true beliefs from the other. In order for true ecumenism to take place both parties must lay ALL their cards on the table.
 
There is ONE Church, is there not? Scripture says it. Christ founded ONE Church, not many.

That being said, those groups who are Christian, but not Catholic, still possess ‘some’ Christian truth, some to a greater degree and some to a lesser degree. We cannot all be correct, you know. How could divorce be both forbidden–and permitted? How can homosexual acts be both sinful and not sinful? How can the bread and wine be simultaneously transubstantiation, consubstantiation, and ‘symbolic’? How can there be ‘God’s vicar’ and ‘no vicar’?

Thus, it is obvious that there has to be one group, above all, which contains all truth. One group which has stood, as Scripture says, since the time when Christ Himself founded His Church and said the gates of hell would not prevail.

That Church is the Catholic church. All other groups have separated themselves from it, to a lesser degree (Orthodox) or a greater degree (Protestants, running the gamut from Lutheran to the newest non-denom which started in somebody’s kitchen this evening). All Christian groups contain some truth. Even non Christian groups can contain some understanding of truth but without knowledge of Christ lack even the connection that our separated brethren have.

And before you begin to huff and puff about the Catholic Church daring to find you ‘not a church’–please call to mind that it was not we who pushed you from the fullness of truth, but you who chose to deny that truth in favor of whatever group you thought was better. IOW, all Protestant groups have, by definition, rejected the Catholic Church as being the true church, some so violently as to call it the Whore of Babylon itself, others less violently as either antiquated, or medieval and just not ‘with it’.

And now when the Church reasserts its truth (Yes, ‘re-asserts’–meaning that it was denied by Protestants so in essence is defending itself), some find this offensive? Yet it is not offensive for various Protestant groups to proclaim themselves as the true church? How is this?

Sillier still are those who think that nobody really has fullness, that ‘anybody’ can ‘get into heaven’, and that claiming to be ‘above’ any other group is bigoted and discriminatory. In heavens name, what good is a group which does not claim to have anything more than ‘relative’ truth for any given individual at any time, and to maunder that “I may not agree with your truth but hey, to each his own”. That is not Christianity–it’s garbage. False ecumenism which makes Christianity the least common denominator in a laissez-faire, anything goes ‘ecumenism’ where anybody can claim anything is ‘right for them’ and there is no such thing as ‘truth’.

Pilate himself would spin in his grave. He at least asked Jesus “what is truth” though he would not listen. Some do not even bother to consult Jesus because either they’re sure they know His thoughts better than He does, or because Jesus–God though He was–was ‘constrained by His times’ and “couldn’t do the real things like ordain women and celebrate homosexuality because of the TIMES”.
 
Exactly. Ecumenism would be counterproductive if either side was concealing its true beliefs from the other. In order for true ecumenism to take place both parties must lay ALL their cards on the table.
Do Catholics have an official definition of “ecumenism?”

Can Catholics suggest a Biblical word from the Bible that would be the equivalent meaning of “ecumenism?”
 
Do Catholics have an official definition of “ecumenism?”
The Catholic Church being the “pillar and foundation of truth” cannot compromise on matters of faith and morals. Ecumenism involves uniting our separated brothers and sisters with Rome without defiling the truth given to us by the Holy Spirit.
 
The Catholic Church being the “pillar and foundation of truth” cannot compromise on matters of faith and morals. Ecumenism involves uniting our separated brothers and sisters with Rome without defiling the truth given to us by the Holy Spirit.
This is what I have been thinking that it means to Catholics, judging by the manner of many posts on this forum I have read. I am wondering if there are any official documents or articles you could refer me to which would explain your point in detail?
 
Do Catholics have an official definition of “ecumenism?”

Can Catholics suggest a Biblical word from the Bible that would be the equivalent meaning of “ecumenism?”
To bring the whole world to the Catholic Faith through charity, love, compassion, understanding and spreading the Gospel.
 
I really do not understand why Protestants get upset about what the Pope or the Catholic church says or believe about Protestant Churches. They mean nothing to us, They just meanless words from people that think too much of themselves.
As for ecumenism, Baptist have alway shunned those so called great eumenism movement like the World Council of Churches and the American Council of Churches.
 
I was compelled to join this forum out of sheer bewilderment that educated individuals in the 21st century still argue in such absolutist terms on such magical issues.

Neither you, nor your Protestant cohorts unbending opinions bear any relevancy on even the slightest of truths.

I would suggest the best thing to do is get your head out of a book of 2,000 year old Hebrew folk lore, stop arguing about ridiculous and unnfalsifiable, non-empirical nonsense such as sola fide or sola scriptura and try applying a wee bit of rationality to your lives.
 
I was compelled to join this forum out of sheer bewilderment that educated individuals in the 21st century still argue in such absolutist terms on such magical issues…try applying a wee bit of rationality to your lives.
And what is the pagan truth and rationality? Where did it originate, and from whom?
 
I’m not really a pagan but an agnostic leading toward atheism.

But, to answer your question, pagan truths and “rationality” originated from the exact same place as your more familiar religion of Paulian Christianity – the insecurity and imagination of man.
 
Do Catholics have an official definition of “ecumenism?”
Ecumenism refers to relations with other Christian bodies in an attempt to re-establish unity.
Can Catholics suggest a Biblical word from the Bible that would be the equivalent meaning of “ecumenism?”
oikonomia – people of the “household rule” – those who call Jesus Christ the second person of the Holy Trinity.
 
I was compelled to join this forum out of sheer bewilderment that educated individuals in the 21st century still argue in such absolutist terms on such magical issues.

Neither you, nor your Protestant cohorts unbending opinions bear any relevancy on even the slightest of truths.

I would suggest the best thing to do is get your head out of a book of 2,000 year old Hebrew folk lore, stop arguing about ridiculous and unnfalsifiable, non-empirical nonsense such as sola fide or sola scriptura and try applying a wee bit of rationality to your lives.
I find it ironic that a person with a username like “AnubistheJackal” is admonishing us to “apply a wee bit of rationality” to our lives?:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
 
I’m not really a pagan but an agnostic leading toward atheism.
Small truths are imprtant too.
But, to answer your question, pagan truths and “rationality” originated from the exact same place as your more familiar religion of Paulian Christianity – the insecurity and imagination of man.
You should take that attitude with respect to technology. Why is it acceptable to rely on the foundations of science and math to advance society, but not theology?

Hacks like to throw out disingenuous statemetns like Pauline Christianity. It only shows an ignorance to history to make a weak point. Congrats.
 
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