What is consciousness and subconsciousness?

[Bahman]

What is consciousness and subconsciousness?

The duty of conscious mind is to experience an external being/objective reality which has a form whether it is an object, body, single thought or feeling, etc.

The duty of subconsciousness is to store any single experience, sort them, process them, and deliver them to consciousness when it is necessary.

There is however a very important question here, namely what is the use of conscious mind if subconscious mind can do all these things. What is the use of experiencing a single thought for example?

Your thought.

 

[icedbun]

You know, to talk about areas of the brain as having ‘duties’ rather imposes an order on the way the brain works that is not there. Duty is something we impose on people not something that applies to functioning systems.

Now, to answer you question -

The sub-conscious mind processes an awful lot without you even knowing it. It takes in all the data from the senses and sorts it into the sort of form that is useful for the conscious mind, so the binocular upside down vision seems to be a 3D moving image… but only because of the advanced processing before you see it. the sub-conscious mind does, in fact, work on problems - ‘what car should I buy?’ ‘how do I calculate this or that?’ for example and, after a pause away from the problem and answer pops into the conscious mind and you know it was the red car you want to buy. (The problem then is that the conscious mind knows the answer but not the reasons and has to come up with explanations for the choice.) Memory storage is critical too - though, of course, the sub-conscious doesn’t produce movies but stores frames and sounds and, especially smells and, when you want to recall something, it re-assembles what it has into a story, filling in bits that are not there, That’s why when people recount something it can change over time.

The conscious mind is juts what t says on the tin - the small part of the mind that can allows us to experience what we experience. That’s about it, really.

Start with wikis and read up more online

 

[Robert_Sock]

I believe that consciousness is the result of the Spirit of God stimulating our brain. The subconsciousness and unconscious, I believe, do not real exist, but are scientists’ attempts to explain human experience.

LOVE!

 

[Bahman]

You know, to talk about areas of the brain as having ‘duties’ rather imposes an order on the way the brain works that is not there. Duty is something we impose on people not something that applies to functioning systems.

Now, to answer you question -

The sub-conscious mind processes an awful lot without you even knowing it. It takes in all the data from the senses and sorts it into the sort of form that is useful for the conscious mind, so the binocular upside down vision seems to be a 3D moving image… but only because of the advanced processing before you see it. the sub-conscious mind does, in fact, work on problems - ‘what car should I buy?’ ‘how do I calculate this or that?’ for example and, after a pause away from the problem and answer pops into the conscious mind and you know it was the red car you want to buy. (The problem then is that the conscious mind knows the answer but not the reasons and has to come up with explanations for the choice.) Memory storage is critical too - though, of course, the sub-conscious doesn’t produce movies but stores frames and sounds and, especially smells and, when you want to recall something, it re-assembles what it has into a story, filling in bits that are not there, That’s why when people recount something it can change over time.

The conscious mind is juts what t says on the tin - the small part of the mind that can allows us to experience what we experience. That’s about it, really.

Start with wikis and read up more online

Thank you very much for your reply. That part I was aware of. My question however was if subconscious mind does all these things without even needing them to be experienced then what is the use of conscious mind? In another word what is consciousness and why it is necessary?

 

[camillebru]

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[empther]

Robert Sock,

I believe that consciousness is the result of the Spirit of God stimulating our brain. The subconsciousness and unconscious, I believe, do not real[y] exist, :extrahappy: but are scientists’ attempts to explain human experience.

Right on, Robert!

I was just about to post saying that consciousness and unconsciouness are both not really existing things, but ***only activities of the soul and body acting together. Then I saw your post.

---

I think you came close to saying consciousness is not really existing but an activity?
Certainly Aquinas said God moves our thoughts and wills or we would have not thoughts and wills, but he doesn’t do it deterministically, allowing us initiative and free will.
So consciousness is a power of the soul, like diving half a mile below the surface of the sea is a power of sperm whales but not an existent thing.

Further, the unconsciousness is the activities of the body’s needs, hunger, biochemistry, breathing etc etc, and cannot be considered a thought process. Why would the soul’s intellect be concerned with the tricarboxylic acid cycle in energy generation?
True, we have barely sustained memories that may creep up into our conscious mind sometimes and affect our conscious behavior, but calling these vague memories an
actually existent entity or power controlling our lives is a common mistake of the Freudians and has been distanced from by many psychiatrists. Mentally ill people are ill in their (conscious) intellects; there is no ‘enemy within’.

Don’t worry about the “subconscious”, people. It can’t hurt you cause it isn’t there.

---

Now Bahman will try to completely confuse everything.

 

[inocente]

My question however was if subconscious mind does all these things without even needing them to be experienced then what is the use of conscious mind? In another word what is consciousness and why it is necessary?

See en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual_process_theory

In dual process theory, system 1 is the subconscious/unconscious process, fast and effortless, the source of our intuitions; while system 2 is the conscious process, much slower, rule-based and analytical. The two systems complement each other by using different approaches. System 1 is similar to other mammals, system 2 is the rational mind unique to humans.

 

[Bahman]

I believe that consciousness is the result of the Spirit of God stimulating our brain. The subconsciousness and unconscious, I believe, do not real exist, but are scientists’ attempts to explain human experience.
LOVE!

Could you please clarify what is duty of human being considering all the complexities involved then if our consciousness is the result spirit of God stumulating our brain? I am wondering if there is any room left for an agent in your picture? You tell me what is degree of freedom of a human being, namely what a human being can do in his/her own part without God intervention so we know where we could go from there.

 

[Bahman]

See en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual_process_theory

In dual process theory, system 1 is the subconscious/unconscious process, fast and effortless, the source of our intuitions; while system 2 is the conscious process, much slower, rule-based and analytical. The two systems complement each other by using different approaches. System 1 is similar to other mammals, system 2 is the rational mind unique to humans.

I don’t believe in dual process theory since your consciousness needs to work in paralel in order to process a ration thought, unfortunately it is serial so it cannot be handel rational thinking. Moreover animal also make rational decision like when a lion attack a herd. They of course pick up their prey among many.

 

[Robert_Sock]

Robert Sock,

Right on, Robert!

I was just about to post saying that consciousness and unconsciouness are both not really existing things, but ***only activities of the soul and body acting together. Then I saw your post.

---

I think you came close to saying consciousness is not really existing but an activity?
Certainly Aquinas said God moves our thoughts and wills or we would have not thoughts and wills, but he doesn’t do it deterministically, allowing us initiative and free will.
So consciousness is a power of the soul, like diving half a mile below the surface of the sea is a power of sperm whales but not an existent thing.

Further, the unconsciousness is the activities of the body’s needs, hunger, biochemistry, breathing etc etc, and cannot be considered a thought process. Why would the soul’s intellect be concerned with the tricarboxylic acid cycle in energy generation?
True, we have barely sustained memories that may creep up into our conscious mind sometimes and affect our conscious behavior, but calling these vague memories an
actually existent entity or power controlling our lives is a common mistake of the Freudians and has been distanced from by many psychiatrists. Mentally ill people are ill in their (conscious) intellects; there is no ‘enemy within’.

Don’t worry about the “subconscious”, people. It can’t hurt you cause it isn’t there.

---

Now Bahman will try to completely confuse everything.

Thanks! I think you helped clarify what I was trying to say. Saying that the mind was an activity really helped.

LOVE!

 

[Robert_Sock]

Could you please clarify what is duty of human being considering all the complexities involved then if our consciousness is the result spirit of God stumulating our brain? I am wondering if there is any room left for an agent in your picture? You tell me what is degree of freedom of a human being, namely what a human being can do in his/her own part without God intervention so we know where we could go from there.

I honestly do not know the answers to your questions other than to state that the activity of our mind is such that it allows our body to do the work of God here in the physical world.

LOVE!

 

[Bahman]

Robert Sock,
Right on, Robert!

I was just about to post saying that consciousness and unconsciouness are both not really existing things, but ***only activities of the soul and body acting together. Then I saw your post.

---

I think you came close to saying consciousness is not really existing but an activity?
Certainly Aquinas said God moves our thoughts and wills or we would have not thoughts and wills, but he doesn’t do it deterministically, allowing us initiative and free will.
So consciousness is a power of the soul, like diving half a mile below the surface of the sea is a power of sperm whales but not an existent thing.

Further, the unconsciousness is the activities of the body’s needs, hunger, biochemistry, breathing etc etc, and cannot be considered a thought process. Why would the soul’s intellect be concerned with the tricarboxylic acid cycle in energy generation?
True, we have barely sustained memories that may creep up into our conscious mind sometimes and affect our conscious behavior, but calling these vague memories an
actually existent entity or power controlling our lives is a common mistake of the Freudians and has been distanced from by many psychiatrists. Mentally ill people are ill in their (conscious) intellects; there is no ‘enemy within’.

Don’t worry about the “subconscious”, people. It can’t hurt you cause it isn’t there.

---

Now Bahman will try to completely confuse everything.

Ok, lets see what is wrong with this picture:

1. God causes any single thought we experience
2. From (1) we can dedcue that God also does the process of thoughts
3. Free will is a thought process in which we can decide in a situation which at least contains two options
4. From (2) and (3) we can deduce that God makes decision as well, hence free will is an illusion

 

[icedbun]

Thanks, Bahman, saved my a post about that!

 

[Robert_Sock]

Ok, lets see what is wrong with this picture:

1. God causes any single thought we experience
2. From (1) we can dedcue that God also does the process of thoughts
3. Free will is a thought process in which we can decide in a situation which at least contains two options
4. From (2) and (3) we can deduce that God makes decision as well, hence free will is an illusion

I believe it is with this type of rationalization that one would be much wiser to be a contemplative than a philosopher.

LOVE!

 

[Bahman]

I believe it is with this type of rationalization that one would be much wiser to be a contemplative than a philosopher.

LOVE!

What is your definition of free will?

 

[ProdglArchitect]

Ok, lets see what is wrong with this picture:

1. God causes any single thought we experience

This is non-sequitor.

The act of God “moving” our consciousness does not mean that he controls it, it means that it is through his will that it is allowed to exist. He moves it in the same way he moves the universe, that is, he dictates the principles and laws that govern its operation. Our brains, and likely our souls, still operate on foundation principles which He defined. It also means that he is always calling it towards him, but it is still up to us to head that call.

1. From (1) we can dedcue that God also does the process of thoughts
2. Free will is a thought process in which we can decide in a situation which at least contains two options
3. From (2) and (3) we can deduce that God makes decision as well, hence free will is an illusion

Since 1 is false, what follows (which is founded on 1) is also false.

 

[Robert_Sock]

What is your definition of free will?

Sorry, but I never thought about it much, but off the top of my head I would say that it is the choice of whether or not to act on thoughts, especially those thoughts brought about by emotions or desires.

LOVE!

 

[Bahman]

This is non-sequitor.

The act of God “moving” our consciousness does not mean that he controls it, it means that it is through his will that it is allowed to exist. He moves it in the same way he moves the universe, that is, he dictates the principles and laws that govern its operation. Our brains, and likely our souls, still operate on foundation principles which He defined. It also means that he is always calling it towards him, but it is still up to us to head that call.

There are many problems here:

1. I think there are many people here who disagree with you: “Certainly Aquinas said God moves our thoughts and wills or we would have not thoughts and wills, but he doesn’t do it deterministically, allowing us initiative and free will.”, quoted by empther.
2. There cannot be any self who is responsible for its action if its actions is defined based on some principles/laws since either the set of laws defines the action hence there is no freedom otherwise the system is mal-defined.

 

[Bahman]

Sorry, but I never thought about it much, but off the top of my head I would say that it is the choice of whether or not to act on thoughts, especially those thoughts brought about by emotions or desires.
LOVE!

That is in fact a very good starting.

For green part you need a sence of judgement which requires a thought process. Do you agree? If yes, who does that? God or you?

 

[ProdglArchitect]

There are many problems here:

1. I think there are many people here who disagree with you: “Certainly Aquinas said God moves our thoughts and wills or we would have not thoughts and wills, but he doesn’t do it deterministically, allowing us initiative and free will.”, quoted by empther.

…Umm… you do realize that that agrees with me right…? Read it slowly.

“God moves our thoughts and wills or we would not have thoughts and wills” - agree with my segment about our dependance on God for existence.

“But he doesn’t do it deterministaclly, allow us initiative and free will.” - agree with my segment about how we have free will and have to chose to enact it…

This statement is basically exactly what I said, and yet you’re trying to claim that it doesn’t… Either you misunderstood, or you are being intellectually dishonest. I’ll assume the former.

1. There cannot be any self who is responsible for its action if its actions is defined based on some principles/laws since either the set of laws defines the action hence there is no freedom otherwise the system is mal-defined.

A series of governing laws do not dictate the final outcome. For example, take into consideration a random number generator. It has a series of principles that it operates on, but it will (almost) always output a different number each time it is asked. Furthermore, the basic governing principles only dictated the way something works (like the game system for an RPG for example, which gives the rules, the skills, what stats mean, etc.). It does not determine how the working object will be put to use. (in the RPG analogy, this is how the player plays the RPG, as a mage or a warrior, or whatever)