What is Considered Doctrine in the LDS Church

[PaulDupre]

Hosemonkey,
I’ll ask you also, what do your beliefs lead you to believe you will be doing in a million years on a day to day, minute by minute basis?

Here’s what we think:

As it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

• 1 Cor 2:9

So, do you think you know what you will be doing? I’ll bet - screwing your brains out with your myriad of goddess wives who are enslaved to you as baby machines to populate your planet with people to worship you. Every now and then you’ll take a break to curse some people with black skin. Good times…

 

[zaffiroborant]

Hosemonkey,
I’ll ask you also, what do your beliefs lead you to believe you will be doing in a million years on a day to day, minute by minute basis?

You’ve asked two people this question and I find it baffling Why is a minute by minute itinerary a million years from now so important? Why can’t one just trust that what is to come will be all that we want and need?

 

[hosemonkey]

Hosemonkey,

I’ll ask you also, what do your beliefs lead you to believe you will be doing in a million years on a day to day, minute by minute basis?

If I am very fortunate, I will be in Purgatory, being cleansed of my sins. If I am very,very,very lucky, I will be in Heaven with my Lord. If I am very unlucky I will convert to mormonism and spend eternity at Ward suppers, eating green jell-o and lying to the “bishop”, trying to get a temple recommend. In other words, I will spend eternity in Hell.

So let’s turn the question around. What will you be doing? Running your planet?

 

[ParkerD]

Here’s what we think: (I agree with that scripture)

So, do you think you know what you will be doing?

I hope to be one with those as follows:
“God himself shall be with them, and be their God… He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.” (Revelation 21:3,7)
“…and they shall reign for ever and ever.” (Revelation 22:5)
“To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.” (Revelation 3:21)
“Therefore they are before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.” (Revelation 7:15)

By the way, spirit children are not conceived by physical procreation, and I only have one wife and am quite satisfied with that.

I predict you will be a servant of God, and be very happy in your role in that sphere of existence, though perhaps bored sometimes.

 

[LDSGuy]

If I am very fortunate, I will be in Purgatory, being cleansed of my sins. If I am very,very,very lucky, I will be in Heaven with my Lord. If I am very unlucky I will convert to mormonism and spend eternity at Ward suppers, eating green jell-o and lying to the “bishop”, trying to get a temple recommend. In other words, I will spend eternity in Hell.

So let’s turn the question around. What will you be doing? Running your planet?

It’s funny how such mocking of a religion is allowed only when it isn’t the Catholic Church. I could also say that If were unlucky, I’d be falling asleep at Mass, pretending to be sorry for sins during confession and then doing the same ones all over again, not actually believing in the Real Presence, etc.

 

[ParkerD]

You’ve asked two people this question and I find it baffling Why is a minute by minute itinerary a million years from now so important? Why can’t one just trust that what is to come will be all that we want and need?

Because the Bible says very plainly what is possible as I cited above in the book of Revelation, but people reject that possibility and thus make a mockery of what Christ really made possible for them.

It will be all we want and need–I agree with that.

 

[ParkerD]

If I am very fortunate, I will be in Purgatory, being cleansed of my sins. If I am very,very,very lucky, I will be in Heaven with my Lord. If I am very unlucky I will convert to mormonism and spend eternity at Ward suppers, eating green jell-o and lying to the “bishop”, trying to get a temple recommend. In other words, I will spend eternity in Hell.

So let’s turn the question around. What will you be doing? Running your planet?

Our belief is that only a few handfuls of people who have ever lived will deny the Holy Ghost and “spend eternity in Hell.” Not one Catholic would qualify for that. Catholics who have really lived their religion will qualify for a place far better and happier than this world, where they will live in the presence of Jesus Christ and serve Him just as (I assume) they think their reward will be. But some might regret when they find out there was a far greater happiness available to them, if they had only read their Bible and believed it. (See the Revelation quotes above.)

 

[hosemonkey]

It’s funny how such mocking of a religion is allowed only when it isn’t the Catholic Church. I could also say that If were unlucky, I’d be falling asleep at Mass, pretending to be sorry for sins during confession and then doing the same ones all over again, not actually believing in the Real Presence, etc.

I responded in the same vein as the question was offered. The question was stupid. In a million years I do not expect to be attending Mass, nor going to confession and hopefully I will be IN the Real Presence, in whom mormons do not believe. Pointing out the absurdities of mormonism is not necessarily mockery. I am sure that your expectations of what your activities a million years hence will be are a lot more ambitious and complicated than mine, what with being a “god” and all. But I’m just a simple ol’ sailor.

 

[zaffiroborant]

By the way, spirit children are not conceived by physical procreation, and I only have one wife and am quite satisfied with that.

So how are they conceived?

I predict you will be a servant of God, and be very happy in your role in that sphere of existence, though perhaps bored sometimes.

Why in the world do you think that what is described in 1 Cor. 2:9 will be boring???

Because the Bible says very plainly what is possible as I cited above in the book of Revelation, but people reject that possibility and thus make a mockery of what Christ really made possible for them.

It will be all we want and need–I agree with that.

And again where in 1Cor 2:9 does it deny any possibility? Where does it contradict or detract from anything you quoted in Revelation?

And where in your quotes does it say you’ll be creating/begetting spirit children who will worship you as we do the Heavenly Father?

 

[PaulDupre]

I predict you will be a servant of God, and be very happy in your role in that sphere of existence, though perhaps bored sometimes.

No, in the Mormon view I’ll be with all those negroes who can only be servants, and we’ll play some great jazz and enjoy ourselves thoroughly.

Your arrogance is astounding.

 

[PaulDupre]

By the way, spirit children are not conceived by physical procreation,

I beg to differ:

and they shall pass by the angels, and the gods, which are set there, to their exaltation and glory in all things, as hath been sealed upon their heads, which glory shall be a fulness and a continuation of the seeds forever and ever.

• D&C 132:19

What “seeds” are those, exactly?

 

[PaulDupre]

Paul,

Those are very interesting quotes. If they are 100% accurate and were given as doctrine, not opionon, from Brigham young I stand corrected.

I can tell you’ve never heard of any of this. You should learn about your religion before you come here and try to preach it to us.

 

[PaulDupre]

So is The history of the Church. Joseph Smith didn’t write that by the way.

Then why is he listed as the author of volumes 1 - 6? I have volumes 1 - 7 and it says Joseph Smith was the author of volumes 1 - 6. It’s right there on the covers.

 

[ParkerD]

So how are they conceived?

Why in the world do you think that what is described in 1 Cor. 2:9 will be boring???

And again where in 1Cor 2:9 does it deny any possibility? Where does it contradict or detract from anything you quoted in Revelation?

And where in your quotes does it say you’ll be creating/begetting spirit children who will worship you as we do the Heavenly Father?

I think it sounds somewhat boring to be a servant for eternity–sorry. I have high expectations of myself, and what I do with my time. I am not satisfied if I feel like I am wasting time.
If 1 Cor 2:9 doesn’t “deny any possibility” then why to you object to the possibility I described?
I personally don’t have the concept in my mind that spirit children will “worship” me. I think they will worship Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ, just like I do.

“Inherit all things” is a pretty broad statement. A father usually wants his son to have everything he has, to be as happy as he is. This makes sense to me, but perhaps not to you.

 

[PaulDupre]

I personally don’t have the concept in my mind that spirit children will “worship” me. I think they will worship Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ, just like I do.

Then you are do not know your faith. The Gospel Principles manual, at www.lds.org, says this:

Those who receive exaltation in the celestial kingdom through faith in Jesus Christ will receive special blessings. The Lord has promised, “All things are theirs” (D&C 76:59). These are some of the blessings given to exalted people:

1. They will live eternally in the presence of Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ (see D&C 76).
2. They will become gods.
3. They will have their righteous family members with them and will be able to have spirit children also. These spirit children will have the same relationship to them as we do to our Heavenly Father. They will be an eternal family.

The first and greatest aspect of our relationship to our Heavenly Father is that we worship Him. If your spirit children have the same relationship to you that you have with your Heavenly Father, then by definition they will worship you.

You should learn your own faith before you presume to come her and preach it to us.

 

[ParkerD]

I beg to differ:

What “seeds” are those, exactly?

A “seed” is synonymous with an “intelligence” in its early stage of development, in my opinion. The verse is admittedly vague. The point is that life goes on with the opportunity to receive the joy of observing the progress of other spirits in a very personal and intimate way, and participating in creating new earths to allow those spirits to have a place to gain a body and progress through living on an earth.

 

[MelanieAnne]

Recently,(within the past couple of years) in our area, there was a young couple expecting their first child. During the pregnancy, they found out that the baby was anacephalic (sp). A hereditary defect resulting in the partial to complete absence of a brain and spinal cord. It is fatal.

They found this out relatively early during the pregnancy, and chose to carry the baby to full term if possible. Indeed the baby did go full term, and was delivered, only to survive for a short while outside of the womb. The baby died in the arms of his parents surrounded by other loving members of the family.

How many people would have aborted this baby? How wonderful those parents chose to bring the child into the world and love him for as long as they could, and then give him back to the Lord.

God doesn’t issue commandments to drive us crazy or to upset us. Instead, the commandments are there to facilitate a happy life.

How does such a concept square with carrying a baby to term when the child has a known defect that will cause it to die within minutes, hours or days? Because meeting the child, loving it, for however long a time there is, is better for the entire family, psychologically, than abortion. Allowing the child to come to term, if he/she can, and be born alive, even for a few minutes, and meet their family is better for everyone. Yes, the child dies, but not before everyone possible in the family has a chance to love him/her. The subsequent grieving process is more normal and natural.

In contrast, it is common, though seldom discussed, for women who had abortions, for whatever reason, to be riddled with grief and doubt even decades after the event. This is not healthy for them or anyone else. When the choice was made for abortion, often to assert the right of the woman to control her own body (which, of course, she could have done before having sexual relations ) it is likely no one imagined the life full of guilt and grief that would ensue.

The Mormon position is misguided, but is to be expected of a sect that continues to evolve doctrine over time.

 

[ParkerD]

Then you are do not know your faith. The Gospel Principles manual, at www.lds.org, says this:

The first and greatest aspect of our relationship to our Heavenly Father is that we worship Him. If your spirit children have the same relationship to you that you have with your Heavenly Father, then by definition they will worship you.

You should learn your own faith before you presume to come her and preach it to us.

Big shot,
I use the Gospel Principles manual every Sunday as a teacher. You have made an inference in your definition. I do know my own faith. I will always worship God the Father and Jesus Christ, in every conceivable sense, for eternity.

I have not preached to you. I would not want a person like you around anyone I know. I’m glad you are happy with your religion. Please don’t “come back”. Enjoy what you have. Bye.

 

[hosemonkey]

God doesn’t issue commandments to drive us crazy or to upset us. Instead, the commandments are there to facilitate a happy life.

How does such a concept square with carrying a baby to term when the child has a known defect that will cause it to die within minutes, hours or days? Because meeting the child, loving it, for however long a time there is, is better for the entire family, psychologically, than abortion. Allowing the child to come to term, if he/she can, and be born alive, even for a few minutes, and meet their family is better for everyone. Yes, the child dies, but not before everyone possible in the family has a chance to love him/her. The subsequent grieving process is more normal and natural.

Well said, my sister, well said.
Did you read my post about the couple who had a little boy with anencephaly who cared for him for such a short time, but whose little life brought such joy to them? Well, they named him Ira and his story has haunted and inspired me for many years. Even though they knew that his life would be short, they still loved him and gave him the dignity and respect that he deserved. I am sure that Ira awaits them in heaven.

 

[MelanieAnne]

Big shot,
I use the Gospel Principles manual every Sunday as a teacher. You have made an inference in your definition. I do know my own faith. I will always worship God the Father and Jesus Christ, in every conceivable sense, for eternity.

I have not preached to you. I would not want a person like you around anyone I know. I’m glad you are happy with your religion. Please don’t “come back”. Enjoy what you have. Bye.

Parker, this sort of nastiness is unseemly and unbecoming of you if you worship God, Jesus (and the Holy Spirit ~ I trust leaving Him out was an oversight?) as you say.

Paul is a thoughtful, considerate gentleman and a sincere man of God, but he, like many of us, finds the mounting inconsistencies in Mormon doctrine (or lack thereof) to be troublesome. Instead of taking out your frustration out on him, take it out where it belongs ~ on the corporation (that’s from a Mormon bishop I know, so don’t give me grief about the term) known as your “church”.

The fact of the matter is that many things taught as “doctrine” in seminaries and Gospel Doctrine classes within the last generation or two are now disavowed by the same “church” that previously taught those things. This is no small matter. Evolving doctrine brings up the very essence of doctrine itself.

And Parker, I would further submit that, as a relative newcomer, it might behoove you to get the “lay of the land” in this forum before you start telling people off. Just a suggestion.