What is Considered Doctrine in the LDS Church

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“Run a religion”?

That would be why it’s confusing to you. God reveals revelation. LDS Prophets don’t “run a religion.” The Pope “runs a religion.” That’s what you’re used to, that’s why your confused about the LDS faith.
 
Here’s another question for you.

In an earlier post somewhere, someone mentioned that if the prophet has a revelation, it is sustained by the rest of the church leadership, and then voted on in general conference. (I think I have that right)

Have there been cases where your head prophet. (sorry, not sure of the right title) has received what he believes was a revelation, and it was shot down by the rest of the leadership, or voted down in your general conference?
It’s important to note, at the outset, that the “vote” in general conference is not a determining vote but rather a sustaining vote. That is, before the vote is ever taken, the new leader has already taken office, the new policy has already been put into place, or the new revelation has already been printed, bound and headed for distribution.

The vote will not affect any of this in any way. The vote is merely an opportunity for the LDS membership to publicly voice their assent to the new action and fulfill their covenants to support and sustain their leaders and the decisions made by those leaders.

Since Mormons promise to sustain their leaders and their worthiness is determined partly by the extent to which they do sustain the leaders, none would dare to raise his hand when the moderator asks “any opposed?” unless that member was already on his way out of the church. While members are free to vote no, to do so is considered an act of apostasy.
 
I think JLFuller is doing a good job at being honest and upfront about the questions I have posed.

I hope that Parker will see what he is saying, and will see the point that was trying to be presented earlier, where not all of the lds posters are on the same page.

I may not agree with the lds, or their positions on things, but ultimately, I think he is presenting them quite well.
 
Melanie,
If I were you, I wouldn’t make that comparison given your church’s history. (I think it was an “open mouth insert foot” statement. Your church’s history frankly makes me sick, revolted, disgusted, and appalled.

If teachers “deny what was taught in the past,” then that is their business. I don’t deny any doctrine (as I have clearly defined the term) that was “taught in the past”.
Well that’s an interesting comment. But that’s OK, because your church’s history is also sickening, revolting, disgusting and appalling. I didn’t know it was a contest. 🤷

Having said that, it is never the CHURCH that sins. People do that. Take it from me, you DO NOT want to get me going on corruption in the LDS church ~ corruption facilitated at times by the First Presidency.

And in reference to the “if I were you” statement ~ you’re not me, just in case you were wondering, and I’m happy about that.
 
“Run a religion”?

That would be why it’s confusing to you. God reveals revelation. LDS Prophets don’t “run a religion.” The Pope “runs a religion.” That’s what you’re used to, that’s why your confused about the LDS faith.
The 1st Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve do not govern (run) the church?

Man, you are delusional.
 
“Run a religion”?
That would be why it’s confusing to you. God reveals revelation. LDS Prophets don’t “run a religion.” The Pope “runs a religion.” That’s what you’re used to, that’s why your confused about the LDS faith.
God reveals revelation. The Pope leads Catholicism. LDS “prophets” “run” a large fraudulent multi-million dollar business operation that is accountable to none but themselves. We are not in the least confused about the fact that mormonism is a false religion, founded by a con-man and felon who died in a gunfight. My seeking answers about mormon “doctrine” is kind of like dissecting a lab specimen, a nasty job, but scientifically interesting. Nearly all of the mormon “apologists” on these forums disagree with one another as to what really constitutes mormon belief. So far, it looks as if the mormon “managers” make this stuff up as they go along. A poor way to run a religion. If I was a stockholder, I’d fire 'em.
 
Yes. It still is. But it isn’t just LDS men and women. There are no denomiational divisions on the other side. One is either or. You are on the Celestial KIngdom track and deification or you are not. There is only one religion in heaven. Everyone who has ever been born or will be will have an equal chance to hear and accept the Gospel. We all make our choices and live with the consequenes. But I think Christ goes so far overboard in making allowances that no one will ever be able to say they didn’t have a chance. Christ is the final judge.
Well it’s at least good to know that this is one LDS doctrine that hasn’t evolved into something else or been dropped completely. 😃

Unfortunately, this business about Deification is the same lie that Satan told to Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden ~ that they had the opportunity to become Gods themselves. It was a lie then. It’s still a lie. Godhood is not in your future, not because you’re not a good person, but because that’s just not part of the plan. I realize that Mormons prefer the Pantheon scenario. It’s too bad more consideration isn’t given about the first time that lie was told, then maybe folks wouldn’t fall for it again.

I do agree that there is only one religion, just as there is only one church and that there will be an ultimate determination for all of us. That’s correct. But there won’t be any secret handshakes 😉
 
It’s important to note, at the outset, that the “vote” in general conference is not a determining vote but rather a sustaining vote. That is, before the vote is ever taken, the new leader has already taken office, the new policy has already been put into place, or the new revelation has already been printed, bound and headed for distribution.

The vote will not affect any of this in any way. The vote is merely an opportunity for the LDS membership to publicly voice their assent to the new action and fulfill their covenants to support and sustain their leaders and the decisions made by those leaders.

Since Mormons promise to sustain their leaders and their worthiness is determined partly by the extent to which they do sustain the leaders, none would dare to raise his hand when the moderator asks “any opposed?” unless that member was already on his way out of the church. While members are free to vote no, to do so is considered an act of apostasy.
So basically, their vote is just a way of saying they got the memo?

But it makes me wonder about the leadership itself. Is there any known cases of dissent on revelation in the first presidency? Aren’t there 3 people in the first presidency?
 
So here we are, going around in circles again.

God doesn’t change his mind, then he does. As in, Cant give the priesthood to blacks, now you can. You can have multiple wives, now you can’t.

From what I understand the BoM has had close to 4000 changes to it since its beginning. If that is your “scripture” or “gospel”, and it has been changed 4000 times, doesn’t that appear to be God changing his mind multiple times.

Trust me, I am not trying to be argumentative here, but, you have to admit trying to find out exactly what mormon doctrine is, is a rather daunting and dizzying task.

By the way, you totally glossed over the fact that ldsguy said that the prohibition of the priesthood for blacks was doctrine at one point, and you’re saying it wasn’t.

How is someone supposed to get a straight answer if you all aren’t on the same page with these things?

Exactly what makes up your doctrine? I am assuming your Doctrines and Covenants, but what else?
Please show me where I said it was not doctrine. The changes in the B of M were minor technical changes. Nothing substantial was changed. About God changing His mind: You are saying He God does not have the right or obligation to teach His children new doctrine? That is the foundation of our belief - God continues to talk to us. Why is that such a problem for you? Are suggesting that once said it always is that way? The entrire history of the world is based on God talking to us, bringing us new deoctrine and expounding of how to understand and impliment His gosple. Christ’s advent was based on new doctrine. If it was not so why was there a need for prophets in each dispensation? Why did Christ not just come into the world, sacrifice Himslef and go back to heaven? He cameinto the world to bring us new doctrine. He came intot he world to tell us the olds ways were over - He fiulfilled the law and gave us new commandments. Why should these days be any different?
 
So basically, their vote is just a way of saying they got the memo?

But it makes me wonder about the leadership itself. Is there any known cases of dissent on revelation in the first presidency? Aren’t there 3 people in the first presidency?
I think “sustaining” someone in their position is a public declaration of support. If you “sustain” someone in their position, you’re saying that you will do your part to carry out their plans and policies. Someone who dissents is saying they will not do that.

And yes, there are 3 persons in the first presidency but only one of them is the Prophet.
 
So you admit that when someone goes to an LDS seminary class, or attends a Gospel Doctrine class, that those things that are taught to them as doctrine are not, in fact, doctrine, they are opinions?
Follow the link to Dr. Millet’s presentation.
 
So basically, their vote is just a way of saying they got the memo?

But it makes me wonder about the leadership itself. Is there any known cases of dissent on revelation in the first presidency? Aren’t there 3 people in the first presidency?
Not quite true. We are required to raise our hands if know of any reason why the person should not be sustained. It is not a democracy but neither is any religion. Baptists for example just quit and go start their own church if they don’t like the old one. They really don’t get much say in how the train is run. Do you think the Catholics get a vote on who the Pope is? How about the Bishop or Archbishop?
 
Thank you for that. I appreciate you taking the time to explain it so well, even though I may disagree with it.

Now, could you explain that to Parker? If I am correct, (and I have been known to be wrong in the past) he believes that the lds doctrine has never changed at all.

Also, if I am not mistaken, didn’t JS confer the priesthood on a black man during the early days of the church? So wouldn’t it be, you can have it, now you can’t, now you can?

If I am wrong on that, please let me know. Again, thanks for your answers.
You are right. He ordained one or two maybe more. You will have to ask someone else what that was all about though. I am not up on it.
 
Well it’s at least good to know that this is one LDS doctrine that hasn’t evolved into something else or been dropped completely. 😃

Unfortunately, this business about Deification is the same lie that Satan told to Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden ~ that they had the opportunity to become Gods themselves. It was a lie then. It’s still a lie. Godhood is not in your future, not because you’re not a good person, but because that’s just not part of the plan. I realize that Mormons prefer the Pantheon scenario. It’s too bad more consideration isn’t given about the first time that lie was told, then maybe folks wouldn’t fall for it again.

I do agree that there is only one religion, just as there is only one church and that there will be an ultimate determination for all of us. That’s correct. But there won’t be any secret handshakes 😉
Aside from polygamy and priesthood, what has changed doctrinally?
 
Please show me where I said it was not doctrine. The changes in the B of M were minor technical changes. Nothing substantial was changed. About God changing His mind: You are saying He God does not have the right or obligation to teach His children new doctrine? That is the foundation of our belief - God continues to talk to us. Why is that such a problem for you? Are suggesting that once said it always is that way? The entrire history of the world is based on God talking to us, bringing us new deoctrine and expounding of how to understand and impliment His gosple. Christ’s advent was based on new doctrine. If it was not so why was there a need for prophets in each dispensation? Why did Christ not just come into the world, sacrifice Himslef and go back to heaven? He cameinto the world to bring us new doctrine. He came intot he world to tell us the olds ways were over - He fiulfilled the law and gave us new commandments. Why should these days be any different?
First let me say, I’m not trying to offend, but merely understand the lds position on doctrine, and how it is determined.

I don’t think God changing his position on something already addressed is “teaching new doctrine”. I think it is man putting his own spin on things.

And yes, I do believe that once God has spoken on a subject, he will not change his mind.

Like I said in an earlier post. God has all of the power. He doesn’t need to change anything, it is literally God’s way or the highway. I believe he wants us all to live in glory with him, but isn’t going to change his mind on things to make it easier for us to be with him. It is as simple as that.

We need to stop trying to mold God into what we want, but submit to being molded into what God wants. Changing doctrine is trying to mold God into what we want.
 
Here’s another question for you.

In an earlier post somewhere, someone mentioned that if the prophet has a revelation, it is sustained by the rest of the church leadership, and then voted on in general conference. (I think I have that right)

Have there been cases where your head prophet. (sorry, not sure of the right title) has received what he believes was a revelation, and it was shot down by the rest of the leadership, or voted down in your general conference?
Beats me. Sorry, that is one of those obscure things that would require an historian to look up. Nothing comes to mind. But there have been several apostles who have been excommunicated for apostasy so it wouldn’t surprise me. This is not a church that tolerates members making docrtrinal changes on their own. I think that is why so many people leave or get into trouble. In other churches pastors make these decisions on their own and just plunge ahead. If someone does that here he is given an opportunity to repent and clean his mess up or out he goes. This is not a church for every one. It canbe but most have thier own opinions and quite often they just don’t fit.
 
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