Something else that appears to have gotten lost in all the hysteria here is that, as I mentioned the first time, this was not “some BAR” where this incident occurred, it was at a small bar ~ staffed by a single bartender ~ that was part of a very exclusive country club, patronized by only the very wealthy, well-connected folks in Utah. Wealthy and well-connected folks in Utah tend to be Mormon, and yet there’s a bar in that country club. Go figure. A very nice, intimate, little bar in a very exclusive club. To liken it to a strip club and give lap-dance analogies is just silly, not to mention strong evidence of the writer’s desperation.
That’s better. Keep it up and you might actually give us a name…if not of the club or bartender, then of the man accused of drinking.
But ok, let’s make that equivalent to me telling you that I had a friend who told me that a Cardinal (in street clothes…but she knew he was a Cardinal anyway) walked into an exclusive club and had an exclusive appointment with an exclusive lap dancer. Is that better?
The point is, Melanie, it didn’t happen. I no more believe that a Cardinal would behave in that manner than I do that an apostle would—and I believe that the universal shock and upset at my example SHOULD wake you up to just exactly how insulting, derogatory and IMPOSSIBLE your story is. You blew it, Melanie. You let your hatred overcome your good sense, and told a really dumb story.
And you’re right, despite the huge “sin tax” on alcoholic beverages of all sorts, and the various restrictions on how it is served, there are still long lines at state liquor stores and it’s a safe bet that not all of them are non-Mormons.
I’m quite certain that there ARE Mormons in those lines, some to get booze for drinking, some for other reasons. I have stood in those lines myself, to purchase rum and vodka to make vanilla extract, for instance. I am equally sure that Catholics visit strip clubs and pay for lap dances. We aren’t, however, talking about Mormons in general, are we? You were accusing a specific sort of Mormon…a member of the Quorum of Twelve Apostles…of doing this. That’s somewhat different. The consequences for one of THEM drinking alcohol in a bar is very different than for someone like, say–my brother, who drinks, or my father, who hasn’t had a drink in 55 years but still considers himself an alcoholic. If I went into a bar…I would lose my Temple recommend and have to do some repenting to get it back. The apostle you are talking about?
He would lose his calling and get ex’d. BIG difference…just as the ‘normal’ Catholic who indulged in a lapdance (well, it’s not as if he were actually having intercourse, is it?) would have to repent…but the Cardinal who tried it would be in for a very different level of discipline.
With great power comes great responsibility…and great vulnerability. It wouldn’t mean anything if anybody saw ME in a bar. It makes a far better story if it is a general authority, though–and an apostle? Wow, that’s the SLT JACKPOT.
So don’t try this with me, Melanie. The story is bogus. If it were not, you can absolutely depend that the SLT, the CRI, Lance Ferm, every anti-Mormon site on the internet and all of the anti-Mormon publications available would have dates, times, names—and the brand of the booze in the drink.
…and that was the kicker for me, Melanie. You are the only person telling this story. I don’t care how exclusive a bar it is–it would be all over everywhere by now if it were true.
Mormons I personally know (yes, I have Mormon friends despite Diana’s accusations) also creatively interpret the “rules” ~ drinking ice tea (after all it’s not hot tea, so it’s OK) and various other versions of tea, etc. Bottom line ~ people basically do as they please, which is pretty normal.
I know Mormons who drink iced tea too. My mother, for one. Of course, it’s not “TEA” tea, if you understand what I mean…it’s ‘herbal’ tea not from the tea plant, but hey. The point is, Melanie, we aren’t talking about ‘people’ who do ‘basically what they please.’
We are talking about accusing someone of doing something for which the consequences are very serious. We aren’t talking about the jack-Mormon who indulges in a beer with his buddies after work. We aren’t even talking about the Sunday School President who might lose his Temple Recommend for six months or so.
We are talking about one of the leaders of the church; an apostle, who stands to lose everything he has ever worked for; his calling, his position, his reputation, even his membership in the church—and for what? Just how probable IS that?
Just forget about whether I believe that he is really an apostle. Just use your head for a minute. If you had all that to lose, would YOU go in a bar (even an exclusive country club bar) and order an alcoholic beverage? I mean…REALLY?
…and I’m supposed to believe that one of these men did that on the strength of you, who make no attempt at all to hide the fact that you despise Mormons and Mormonism, telling me than some unnamed friend told you that s/he served a beverage to an unnamed member of the quorum of the twelve, at some unnamed place and time?
C’mon, Melanie. Get real. YOU didn’t see this happen yourself–you even admit that, but you are getting all fussed because I don’t automatically accept it as gospel.
I don’t think so, hon. You have to give me more than that, or accept that I have no reason to believe you, and every reason not to.
Doesn’t he know that coffee will give you delirium tremens and a powerful urge to write bad checks? God save us!
