What is considered "dwelling" on inpure thoughts?

  • Thread starter Thread starter wworld
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
W

wworld

Guest
This is probably a stupid question, but what is “dwelling” considered when in the case of impure thoughts? (Horribly phrased question. I’m tired)

If someone was scrupulous and didn’t know if they committed lust or not, and that person would not be able to continue doing what he was doing unless he analyses the situation, would he be “dwelling” on the matter? That would mean he committed a mortal sin, ironically, right?

Is dwelling in this case really “entertaining the thoughts”, or does it mean what was said above?
 
It might mean allowing images or imaginations to occupy your attention for more than a few seconds…perhaps even to call them to mind with deliberation…to call them back into mind.

It’s often - at least for men - related to sexual matters. It could have been started by seeing a glimpse of a woman in a blouse/seeing her bra…and then bringing that image back to mind.

It’s not always sexual…it could be deliberately nursing resentment. Going over and over some past event, perhaps even sharpening the offense in your memory.

This kind of thing can actually be a mortal sin. Deliberately nursing resentment. Or deliberately being critical minded.

This time you spend doing these things in such a manner, is not sanctifiable time. It’s wasting God’s time. God had other plans for you at that moment.

So what we need to do is to “substitute”…rather than remembering the beauty of a woman’s breasts, you pray for all women and all their children.

Rather than nurse resentment…you immediately pray for the person (who caused you offense) and their family. Concretize your prayer, making it specific, replacing the impure or uncharitable thoughts. Sanctify those moments.
 
Sinful “dwelling” would include enjoyment. Analytic dwelling, as the scrupulous person would do, is still unwise, however. This person should be working with his confessor on what to do in various cases of temptation, doubt, etc., and not doing so much analysis on his own.
 
I agree with the “enjoyment” factor (in the cas eof sexual thoughts). Sin would be to call back the thoughts in order to be aroused, to enjoy them.
I have had this problem before… calling back thoughts in order to find out WHETHER I am enjoyed them or not. Usually the feeling I had then wasn’t enjoyment, but fear. I agree with betsy it’s unwise ;). I think it’s not a mortal sin though… But I am also struggling with this a bit so I can’t say for sure otherwise I’d feel guilty I may have said something wrong ;)…
 
Think of impure thoughts as birds. You can’t stop them from flying over your head, but you can keep them from building a nest in your hair.

DaveBj
 
DaveBj said:
Think of impure thoughts as birds. You can’t stop them from flying over your head, but you can keep them from building a nest in your hair.

DaveBj
Click to expand...
If this was Facebook, I would click on “like” 😉
 
(from previous posts of mine)

Regarding thoughts

while Jesus makes it clear that one can sin in ones thoughts…just cause some lustful thought happens does not mean that one sinned…

(and one can have a sufficiently good reason to think about sexual matters…for instance studying moral theology…but care must be taken to avoid things that would be a problem…but that is another question)

What should we do with* unwanted* sexual thoughts or other bad thoughts…thoughts against God etc? Those pesky temptations that can come …even though we are not seeking them etc…

(there are of course some things we should avoid that cause them…and there can be sin if it is something one should reasonably avoid…but often they come uninvited)

First…Relax. Do not worry.

Now are they mortal sins?

For a mortal sin one needs a grave matter …full knowledge AND deliberate consent!!!

A. If you do not want the thought…it the thought displeases you: it can be a sign actually that you did not give consent or do not give full consent.

B. Even if you felt a temptation for the thought – and were drawn to it —but rejected it and maybe even turned to God : again a sign not full consent.

C. But what if one has a tempting thought --say of a sexual nature and even hesitated for a moment…but then rejected it for one did not want to sin? : it can be partial consent perhaps (and thus a venial sin)-- or it may be no sin at all but rather a strong temptation that drew you but then you saw what was happening and turned away.

D. A temptation can even be very strong or the thoughts very often – but this does NOT mean one has consented! so worry not…even it they go on for a long time…

remember --for it to be mortal there must be that deliberate consent!

What to do? on the spiritual side–relax first of all and remember the above.

Next – know that the more one fears the thoughts the more likely they are to come… or said another way --the more a person seeks to avoid the thoughts the more likely he will have a problem with them. (but do not worry about this either!)

for example: for the next 10 seconds try NOT to think of an apple.

tick tock …

tick tock…

Ok what did you think of? Most likely an apple.

So it is best to ignore them and just not consent and then turn your attention to some other good thing…for instance whatever you are doing. Simply do not consent and move on. and do not worry

another point – thoughts can just happen --they are the stuff with which we think…it is up to us to consent and take them further or not. and just because they are REAL VIVID and almost “think themselves” does not mean per se that one has given ANY consent.

they can be annoying…but need cause no actual harm …

(Now difficulties with thoughts can happen to anyone…and has for centuries…nothing new!..but I will note too that “some” have a condition known as OCD (I knew someone with this once…it was a painful experience)…and thus should seek further professional help to work at overcoming it and to live a more peaceful life)
Another help…is the distinction between “first thoughts and emotions” (as Baur calls em) what they call the prima of the prima…“the first of the first” (as one of my Professors called em…he was a Dominican)…these are involuntary things that just come up…such are not sins. They can tempt one of course to sin…or one can then proceed to some sin…but they are the stuff of the mind and emotions which “happen to one” …and really the are opportunities for growing in virtue etc as well…

How to deal with these? First of relax…don’t scruple…don’t fear them…to try to swat them all as the come…just simply turn to other things…or the thing you are doing…or to God…(of course do not consent)…but if you are too defensive against them…they may get worse actually…and confuse you more…instead turn to God or again other good things…accept that hey…somethings wild thoughts will come to you…

(and these can happen to all of us by the way…)

There is a story from the desert of the early Centuries of the Church where a younger hermit when to an older one with the problems of thoughts happening to him all the time…the older hermit told him to go outside open his cloak and catch the wind.

The younger hermit said such is not possible…

the older hermit replied --neither is it possible to stop all the thoughts that can come to you…your choice is to say “yes” or “no”.

So relax about “unwanted thoughts”…sometimes they just come…you know like unwanted phone calls from politicitians and salepersons etc…but you can always say “no thank you” or just ignore the call and go about your business
 
DaveBj said:
Think of impure thoughts as birds. You can’t stop them from flying over your head, but you can keep them from building a nest in your hair.

DaveBj
Click to expand...
Somebody has been talking with Fr. Michael…
 
Bookcat I was actually eating an apple while reading your comment about “try not to think of an apple” 😉 But anyway I don’t remember now what I was thinking about, sometimes I get way too distracted while reading something 😉

Anyway, you make such good points, I hope they will be helpful to many people.
I have even read before that these thoughts happen to all people - what is different for people who scruple about them is just - that they do that, that they worry about them. And yes, worrying about them makes it worse - but that does not mean we give consent, on the contrary!

I also am often tempted to analyze thoughts I had (what did I really think? how did it start? even try to think them again in order to find out did I feel any enjoyment) But htis happens in a state of fear, not of pleasure. I do it because I DIDN’T want the thought, not because I wanted it. 🙂

Other good advice for scrupulous thoughts of any kind, and I think especially these unwanted thoughts, is from a priest (and a young priest-to-be I sometimes talked to actually said almost the same): Make a sign of the cross over your forehead and say something like: Jesus, clean my thoughts.
(But do not do so compulsively!!! If you feel it becomes a compulsion, then I’d say better stop it :))

Or simply say any kind of prayer when you feel the thoughts coming: Jesus, pleas ehelp me deal with this, Jesus, take away these thoughts from me, Jesus, i am afraid, it is starting again, please help me not fear and not sin… or anything like that… And doing this by itself will also show you that you are not giving consent.
🙂

Talk to God, to Jesus, about it. 🙂

Kathrin
 
Bookcat said:
Somebody has been talking with Fr. Michael…
Click to expand...
Actually, it’s an ancient Chinese proverb, but I had to google it to find that out. I’ve known it for decades, much longer than I’ve been a Catholic, so long that I have no memory of when I first heard it. But there are so many situations where it can apply.

DaveBj
 
wworld said:
This is probably a stupid question, but what is “dwelling” considered when in the case of impure thoughts? (Horribly phrased question. I’m tired)

If someone was scrupulous and didn’t know if they committed lust or not, and that person would not be able to continue doing what he was doing unless he analyses the situation, would he be “dwelling” on the matter? That would mean he committed a mortal sin, ironically, right?

Is dwelling in this case really “entertaining the thoughts”, or does it mean what was said above?
Click to expand...
It means entertaining thoughts, i.e., granting them consent of the will. Suppose, for whatever reason, a neuron misfires in my brain and a picture of a naked woman pops before my mind’s eye. I now have a choice to make. I can choose to ignore it or suppress it, or I can choose to entertain it, to keep it in my mind, to interact with it, etc. The former choice is virtuous, the latter sinful.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top