What is considered to be serious sin? (one aspect of, but not to be confused with mortal sin)

[thistle]

various factors can go into this…

but in general reason …an well formed conscience…etc

(the Church of course where ever such is spoken of…orthodox Catholic Moral theologians )

But it is simply the case that theft admits of “parvity” of matter.

and example could be

Stealing $1000 from someone is going to be grave matter…

stealing $1 dollar is going to be venial matter…(though circumstance could make it grave…like the person is destitute etc)

of course *one is NOT to steal *

But that is more or less saying an individual can decide for themselves if what they steal amounts to a sin of venial matter and not grave matter. One person might view stealing USD 10 or less as venial whereas another person might view stealing USD 1000 or less as venial.

For your information I’m not talking about a situation where someone steals food or money in order to feed a starving child. I agree that might not only be venial but might not even be a sin at all.

I’m talking about a person of age of reason, sound mind, not coerced, no financial issues, knows theft is a sin but decides to steal items from their workplace or steal money (say USD 10) from the wallets of co-workers. Are you saying in these circumstances the sin is of venial matter.
Its not a trick question. I really want to understand because apart from a starving person situation I have always understood theft is theft. If I am wrong I need to understand why in specifics rather than generalisations.

 

[Bookcat]

But that is more or less saying an individual can decide for themselves if what they steal amounts to a sin of venial matter and not grave matter. One person might view stealing USD 10 or less as venial whereas another person might view stealing USD 1000 or less as venial.

Not really…they need to form their conscience…and reason well…etc and they should not be stealing at all!

as to the last line

I suppose If they have an extremely poorly formed conscience…maybe …but a person sort of normally knows stealing $1000 is big theft…just like they know murder is serious…

For your information I’m not talking about a situation where someone steals food or money in order to feed a starving child. I agree that might not only be venial but might not even be a sin at all.

Such can even be not theft at all --see CCC

I’m talking about a person of age of reason, sound mind, not coerced, no financial issues, knows theft is a sin but decides to steal items from their workplace or steal money (say USD 10) from the wallets of co-workers.

yes it can be a venial matter…but still a deliberate sin…and can be worse due to the social aspects involved (circumstances) and more can be involved like are they intending to really steal $1000 but $10 at a time so they do not get caught…such can then be grave in matter due to intending this…

Its not a trick question. I really want to understand because apart from a starving person situation I have always understood theft is theft. If I am wrong I need to understand why in specifics rather than generalisations.

yes theft is theft…but just like sins against charity are sins against charity…some are mortal and some are venial matters…

unlike say lust…there is parvity of matter possible here

 

[Bookcat]

PS: Theft of course requires restitution…

 

[thistle]

Bookcat:
Thanks. Its obviously complicated so I think I’ll continue to view theft as theft even if that’s an extreme position. I agree that people should not steal at all (other than the example of a starving person). If people get into the bad habit of stealing small items that’s putting them on the road to something more serious later on.

 

[Pug]

Thanks. Its obviously complicated so I think I’ll continue to view theft as theft even if that’s an extreme position. I agree that people should not steal at all (other than the example of a starving person). If people get into the bad habit of stealing small items that’s putting them on the road to something more serious later on.

Also, with stealing $10 from a coworker, I think you have to deal with how you are making the other people in the office feel by doing so. Many people respond with a strong emotional reaction to this type of theft, whereas if someone took a paperclip from their desk, they might not even notice (or care). For this reason, I think on account of love of neighbor, it could be grave, even for the $10. Perhaps it would disrupt office interactions, lead to an atmosphere of distrust, could cause gossip and backbiting as people blamed the wrong individual, and end up harming business overall.

 

[Bookcat]

Thanks. Its obviously complicated so I think I’ll continue to view theft as theft even if that’s an extreme position. I agree that people should not steal at all (other than the example of a starving person). If people get into the bad habit of stealing small items that’s putting them on the road to something more serious later on.

2408 The seventh commandment forbids theft, that is, usurping another’s property against the reasonable will of the owner.

That first line tells us what theft is.

Now lets see what is NOT theft:

There is no theft if consent can be presumed or if refusal is contrary to reason and the universal destination of goods. This is the case in obvious and urgent necessity when the only way to provide for immediate, essential needs (food, shelter, clothing . . .) is to put at one’s disposal and use the property of others.190

Such is not theft. Theft is not something that one can “make ok” it is a sin.
The above is simply NOT theft by definition. It is a different object.

Now again as to theft…

It is grave but it admits to smallness of matter…as for example when one stills something that would not be a grave matter…like stealing a grape …

There can be grave matter here and venial matter…and there can be other factors that make things worse…social factors …etc…

bottom line…do not be a thief

 

[thistle]

2408 The seventh commandment forbids theft, that is, usurping another’s property against the reasonable will of the owner.

That first line tells us what theft is.

Now lets see what is NOT theft:

There is no theft if consent can be presumed or if refusal is contrary to reason and the universal destination of goods. This is the case in obvious and urgent necessity when the only way to provide for immediate, essential needs (food, shelter, clothing . . .) is to put at one’s disposal and use the property of others.190

Such is not theft. Theft is not something that one can “make ok” it is a sin.
The above is simply NOT theft by definition. It is a different object.

Now again as to theft…

It is grave but it admits to smallness of matter…as for example when one stills something that would not be a grave matter…like stealing a grape …

There can be grave matter here and venial matter…and there can be other factors that make things worse…social factors …etc…

bottom line…do not be a thief