What is death?

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From a Christian perspective what does this mean?

If Adam and Eve were sentenced to death of the flesh and death of the soul.

If Jesus Christ redeems mankind of the error of which God condemned man of, with His death.

Then what is the meaning of death?

How does that relate to born again?

Living?

And after life?

If we are to say there is never a moment one can live without Gods grace, what does that say for death?

🤷 I don’t know I’m listening I’m confused :confused: Am I to take that to mean, if your good you live forever, and if your bad, you die when you die, thus you are condemned by your own actions.

So there is no death for those not condemned by there own actions. So what is the meaning of death.
 
In one of the forms for Catholic Funerals, there is a line that says something like…“We know death is only a change to life”. I can’t recall the exact wording, but that is the first thing that comes to mind for me.

I think death has two meanings: our human (limited) definition, and the supra-human definition.

Hell is a complete separation from God. It is devoid of God. It is death.

But our God is the God of the living. Christ conquered death. Those in heaven and purgatory have been saved from death through Him. We believe in both the resurrection of the body and the life everlasting–these are all things that involve living. It’s just a kind of living that is brought about by our “death”.

My grandpa used to tell me that we are not physical beings having a spiritual experience, but that we are spiritual beings having a physical experience. Our earthly life is a drop in the bucket compared to our eternity. Death as we know it is a change to our life, not the end of it.
 
GaryTaylor said:
From a Christian perspective what does this mean?

If Adam and Eve were sentenced to death of the flesh and death of the soul.

If Jesus Christ redeems mankind of the error of which God condemned man of, with His death.

Then what is the meaning of death?

How does that relate to born again?

Living?

And after life?

If we are to say there is never a moment one can live without Gods grace, what does that say for death?

🤷 I don’t know I’m listening I’m confused :confused: Am I to take that to mean, if your good you live forever, and if your bad, you die when you die, thus you are condemned by your own actions.

So there is no death for those not condemned by there own actions. So what is the meaning of death.
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I am not entirely sure if your specific questions, but I will say that I believe the Scriptures refer to spiritual death when talking about “death” as a consequence of sin. That is, eternal separation from God. Perhaps mankind was meant to live in an extra-dimensional Garden of Eden where a “tree of eternal life” grew that prevented physical natural death from occurring, and wherein massive resulting overpopulation problems would not have arisen as this “Garden” would have no actual physical boundaries like the physical world we know today, but I am not sold on this. I think God may have intended physical death as a coronation: a joining into the same eternal union with Him that we experience as salvation, and that it is only after sin that we came to fear death. Tolkien seemed to suggest as much in his writings.

We know that human ancestors such as homo habiliis and homo erectus died long before Adam and Eve and the start of modern humans came onto the scene, yes? So spiritual death as the emphasis in Scripture helps resolve this dilemma.
 
death is the begining of the real life wheather you go to hell or heaven 80years on earth is like 1minute there
 
All good and yes I’m thinking and typing, and no I don’t have a summary figured out for the ending. So we shall see.

If we are to say; " in the day that though eatest of the fruit thou shall surely die" .

The threat in progression includes both deaths, death of the body, death of the soul, this includes whatever death there is, all death. The first death is followed by the second, both are contingent on Gods grace, and both are redeemed by Christ, but the human corruptibility was not redeemed, a few of His prophets didn’t die[before the Cross, which they too may have chose death had they been at a later time]. Thus it is not the body but the corruptibility of the body which is the burden to the soul. There is no other place to go, unless I am missing something, and that could well be. Yet when we speak of corruptibility we see a clearer picture here of God and His holy family and possibility.

Anyway thus far, from here I believe we can also see the incorruptible Saints, and in general the communion of saints and the divinization process.
 
Ah the good old death, so many definitions, so little time.

It looks like you are incorporating, both a physical death and a spiritual death into your question.

I suppose I would just start with the foundation that ‘God invites’.

If ‘God invites’ can be agreed on, it is easier to walk down the path dealing with death.
 
Ophelia23 said:
.“We know death is only a change to life”. I can’t recall the exact wording, but that is the first thing that comes to mind for me.

I think death has two meanings: our human (limited) definition, and the supra-human definition.

Hell is a complete separation from God. It is devoid of God. It is death.

But our God is the God of the living. Christ conquered death. Those in heaven and purgatory have been saved from death through Him. We believe in both the resurrection of the body and the life everlasting–these are all things that involve living. It’s just a kind of living that is brought about by our “death”.

My grandpa used to tell me that we are not physical beings having a spiritual experience, but that we are spiritual beings having a physical experience. Our earthly life is a drop in the bucket compared to our eternity. Death as we know it is a change to our life, not the end of it.
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I like your grandpas logic.
 
GaryTaylor said:
👍
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Alright.

So always keeping in mind the foundation ‘God invites’, let’s evaluate.

Time and death # 1 (for a human)

As creations ‘invited’ we must have purpose here in ‘time’, as it will end and thus we will all reach death # 1. Let’s see if we can curl back to a purpose for ‘now’, since without one, ‘what’s the point!?’.

Death # 2 with a residence constructed due to the decision of the angel of light is obviously ‘outside of time’. Since all of the factors involved are outside of time, the best we can conclude is that upon creation angels are given a choice to make instantly because they already know complete truth (who God ‘Is’) and don’t have the gift of time.

So Death #2 has a cause-effect and location - 'know God then reject God, reside here.

Every single human will have to go through a decision process to hold true to who God ‘is’ (Love) and what His creation is (free).

If God ‘invites’, that decision process might be in our ‘now’.

If God invites, God does not at the same time reject, impossible.

Therefore God can’t be the responsible party for a conclusion outside of his house.

Otherwise, we would be going back on our foundation.

Thus we come back to ‘time’. Perhaps it has a role in Death # 2 to help us with purpose for ‘now’.

Angels know God upon creation, Humans have ‘time’ to get to know God. It might be a stretch to conclude humans get ‘time’ and ‘outside of time’ to get to know God (save for exceptions).

So considering ‘God invites’ the purpose of ‘now’ is to receive and rejoice in the invite, and act on it.

The beauty of the Christian message? rejecting ‘God’s Invite’ in time can be corrected!, if you find your heart aches from your decision to reject, REJOICE!, there is time! (But get to work accepting)
 
I don’t know if this is related, but death was the topic of today’s general audience by the Pope.

Here you can find the summary and the full video:

vatican.va/holy_father/francesco/audiences/2013/documents/papa-francesco_20131127_udienza-generale_en.html

I retained the following sentences:

** “Our Lord frequently tells us to be watchful, knowing that our life in this world is a preparation for the life to come. If we remain close to him, especially through charity to the poor and solidarity with those in need, we need not fear death, but rather welcome it as the door to heaven and to the joy of eternal life.”**
 
ffg said:
Alright.

So always keeping in mind the foundation ‘God invites’, let’s evaluate.

Time and death # 1 (for a human)

As creations ‘invited’ we must have purpose here in ‘time’, as it will end and thus we will all reach death # 1. Let’s see if we can curl back to a purpose for ‘now’, since without one, ‘what’s the point!?’.

Death # 2 with a residence constructed due to the decision of the angel of light is obviously ‘outside of time’. Since all of the factors involved are outside of time, the best we can conclude is that upon creation angels are given a choice to make instantly because they already know complete truth (who God ‘Is’) and don’t have the gift of time.

So Death #2 has a cause-effect and location - 'know God then reject God, reside here.

Every single human will have to go through a decision process to hold true to who God ‘is’ (Love) and what His creation is (free).

If God ‘invites’, that decision process might be in our ‘now’.

If God invites, God does not at the same time reject, impossible.

Therefore God can’t be the responsible party for a conclusion outside of his house.

Otherwise, we would be going back on our foundation.

Thus we come back to ‘time’. Perhaps it has a role in Death # 2 to help us with purpose for ‘now’.

Angels know God upon creation, Humans have ‘time’ to get to know God. It might be a stretch to conclude humans get ‘time’ and ‘outside of time’ to get to know God (save for exceptions).

So considering ‘God invites’ the purpose of ‘now’ is to receive and rejoice in the invite, and act on it.

The beauty of the Christian message? rejecting ‘God’s Invite’ in time can be corrected!, if you find your heart aches from your decision to reject, REJOICE!, there is time! (But get to work accepting)
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Sounds good, like music, this though…“It might be a stretch to conclude humans get ‘time’ and ‘outside of time’ to get to know God (save for exceptions).” These exceptions that hear the music and are predestined thus experience time and outside of time, the corruptibility decrease’s and could all the way to incorruptible, and the incorruptible as mortal can be immortal. Keep in mind the word mortal, it means death. Mortal becomes deadly, because it strangles supernatural life, grace. Thus; “we are spiritual beings having a physical experience”. Time is a learning experience, thus time for the correction, and the paradox the inclination to sin by sinners who must not sin, it should follow that the inclination to sin would decrease as the forward push in cooperation with grace is increased thus to accept the invitation.

The beauty of the Christian message
 
(Gen 3:19) By the sweat of your face will you earn your food, until you return to the ground, as you were taken from it. For dust you are and to dust you shall return.’

If the story ended there, this would be our fate: this miracle of existence, living out its few years in suffering until it is spent.
Having a spiritual, and hence eternal nature, once the body is reduced to ash, something remains.
In time, before the birth, death and resurrection of our Saviour, it appears that our spirit slept, was in peace or suffered the consequences of sin.
In Christ, we are transformed into a new being. With death, this almost illusory existence on earth ceases, and like a seed becomes the source of a new, real, solid existence in the presence of God, ultimately whole in the form of a imperishable body.

(1 Cor 15:35-55). But someone will ask, “How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?” How foolish! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. When you sow, you do not plant the body that will be, but just a seed, perhaps of wheat or of something else. But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body……The splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another……The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit. The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual. The first man was of the dust of the earth; the second man is of heaven. As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the heavenly man, so also are those who are of heaven. And just as we have borne the image of the earthly man, so shall we bear the image of the heavenly man……Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.” “Where, O death, is your victory? Where, O death, is your sting?”
 
Let’s look at what Daniel has to say: After the sixty-two weeks, an anointed one (The Messiah) shall be *cut off *and shall have nothing,
and the troops of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. Its end shall
come with a flood, and to the end there shall be war. Desolations are decreed.
  • (Daniel 9:26)
    “Cut Off” is an Old Testament word for “killed” and it also implies a
    separation, to cast someone away with nothing, so the ULTIMATE
    meaning of Death is Separation from God.
Someone correct me if I’m wrong or expand if I’m on the right track.
 
GaryTaylor said:
These exceptions that hear the music and are predestined thus experience time and outside of time, the corruptibility decrease’s and could all the way to incorruptible, and the incorruptible as mortal can be immortal.
Click to expand...
Specifically on exceptions, I was thinking about those that do not experience ‘time’ as they must still make a decision to accept or reject the invite (in order for free will to exist for all humans, which must be present with a loving God who does not force, but invites).

But -

I did not define the ‘exceptions’, purposefully. It might be interesting to think about various situations, but they are still just examples.

We are on here writing, we fall outside of the exceptions.
 
Revelation 9:5 They were not to kill them, but to give them anguish for five months, and the anguish was to be the anguish of a scorpion’s sting.

6 When this happens, people will long for death and not find it anywhere; they will want to die and death will evade them.

How should we understand this vision ?
 
GaryTaylor said:
From a Christian perspective what does this mean?

If Adam and Eve were sentenced to death of the flesh and death of the soul.

If Jesus Christ redeems mankind of the error of which God condemned man of, with His death.

Then what is the meaning of death?

How does that relate to born again?

Living?

And after life?

If we are to say there is never a moment one can live without Gods grace, what does that say for death?

🤷 I don’t know I’m listening I’m confused :confused: Am I to take that to mean, if your good you live forever, and if your bad, you die when you die, thus you are condemned by your own actions.

So there is no death for those not condemned by there own actions. So what is the meaning of death.
Click to expand...
Just read the online CCC. It has simple answers…

Death is the end of our earthly life. The separation of body and soul.

Death of the soul is an analogical use of the word death.
It means disconnection of the soul from God’s grace/life.
 
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