What is faith?

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WeSeeLight

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Hello…

“Have faith” are common words, but does the Bible ever actually define it? Is it having an unshakeable conviction like 2+2=4, or is it simply trying to believe, despite doubts?

For two years, I have said Christ was real, died for us, rose for us, and is the Messiah. My heart spoke something differently… the New Testament is the only religious document that ever gave me chills and profound answers to some questions, yet deep inside Christ seems to be unsure…

Deuteronomy says that none should add to “these words”, yet more Books were added over the centuries. The New Testament writers speak of “the scriptures” as if they’re only the Old Testament… and the N.T. works don’t say “thus saith the Lord:” or “the word of the Lord came to me, saying:”, so how do we know what’s Scripture, apart from the testimony of sinful human beings? Just trusting the Church isn’t going to do, because that requires faith again, which hasn’t been defined yet.

I don’t seem to believe in Jesus Christ as I believe in one God, but how I want to! It’s distressing… if you have any answers, please do help a brother in need.
 
The most common word used in the NT translated as “Faith” or belief is some form of “Pistis”.
Strongs defines it as:
conviction of the truth of anything, belief; in the NT of a conviction or belief respecting man’s relationship to God and divine things, generally with the included idea of trust and holy fervor born of faith and joined with it
So Faith involves not only intellectual ascent, but trust and conviction.

That said, we all can have trouble with the various requirements of faith. Ours is a journey, and not an easy one. It takes time and commitment and for most of us, gut wrenching problems to work through. So please know that you are not alone.

I don’t know if I can provide any insight into your specific questions but I will try…Others, much smarter than I will be able to do better…
Deuteronomy says that none should add to “these words”, yet more Books were added over the centuries.
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This is fairly easy. No one has added any words to the book of Deuteronomy which is what the admonition refers to. There is a similar admonition at the end of Revelation and again, it refers to that specific book…Not to the collection of books that we refer to as the canon of Scripture.
The New Testament writers speak of “the scriptures” as if they’re only the Old Testament…
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While there is some debate about whether the NT writers were including their own writings in the term “Scripture”, I think that you are right for the most part. That, for instance when Paul wrote to Timothy that All Scripture is God breathed…He was referring to the OT writings.
and the N.T. works don’t say “thus saith the Lord:” or “the word of the Lord came to me, saying:”, so how do we know what’s Scripture, apart from the testimony of sinful human beings?
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Well - the Gospels contain a LOT of “thus saith the Lord” since they record much of what Jesus said…In the letter, there really isn’t a whole lot of commands given, mostly advice and instruction.
As for how we know what is Scripture…Well…We accept the Promise of Christ to guide His Church. As for “sinful humans”…who do you think wrote the books of the OT? 🤷
Just trusting the Church isn’t going to do, because that requires faith again, which hasn’t been defined yet.
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Yes - we are back to faith…About all I can tell you here is that the Church points to Scripture and Scripture points to the Church. That is what I found on my journey.

As for how to know who to Trust…I start with Love. Love is the core of our faith. It is the basis for all OT law and prophets. We are even told that God IS Love.
Love builds up, it does not tear down. Love gives without desire for recompense - except that Love desires only Love in return.
Christ, the NT and all that follows from it is clearly a demonstration of God’s Love for us. It rings true and therefore is worthy of belief…of faith…

I hope the above helps a little…

Peace
James
 
JRKH, thank you for the reply. The etymology and grammar is especially helpful in defining the subject.

One thing that definitely establishes the credibility of the New Testament writers, at least, and their historicity is the fact that they wrote that this is the truth, in order to set things right. They include the stories of Christ severely denouncing hypocrisy. Now, why would they do that if they were lying themselves, about an invented Jesus?

They also recorded their own shortcomings.

Faith and trust are intimately linked, it seems…
 
WeSeeLight said:
JRKH, thank you for the reply. The etymology and grammar is especially helpful in defining the subject.
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Glad I could be of some help…

While not particularly precise in theological terms etc…I developed a “hierarchy of Faith” some time ago that I think might be useful to you:

Belief, Grace, Faith, Love and Works are interwoven pieces. They cannot be separated. They can only be placed in “order”.
  1. We begin with Grace. Grace is the supernatural foundation. The “seed” that God plants in every soul that enables it to find it’s way back to God.
  2. Then comes Belief. We must believe in something before anything else. If we do not believe in God, then the seed of Grace will not grow.
  3. After Belief comes Faith. The difference between belief and faith, is simply this: I may believe in the existence of banks, but do I have faith in them? Faith gets into trusting and believing in the promises of God and believing in Jesus Christ and salvation through doing the will of the Father. Learning and developing our faith is nurturing and allowing the seed of God’s grace to grow in us.
  4. Then Comes Love. Jesus places Love as the Greatest and center of all of the Law and prophets. What we Love and covet is how we know “where our heart is”. If we Love God and wish to do His will, then we will Love our neighbor unselfishly and wish to act in ways that are pleasing to our love - who is God Himself.
  5. Then comes Works. If we believe properly, that is we have a trusting belief, then works will necessarily follow. If works do not follow then there is a problem with one of the above.
One thing that definitely establishes the credibility of the New Testament writers, at least, and their historicity is the fact that they wrote that this is the truth, in order to set things right. They include the stories of Christ severely denouncing hypocrisy. Now, why would they do that if they were lying themselves, about an invented Jesus?
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They also recorded their own shortcomings.
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Additionally…why would so many go to their martyrdom willingly for a lie???
Faith and trust are intimately linked, it seems…
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Yes they are, and as I mentioned earlier…It is a long journey…

I like a saying from Mother Angelica that goes…(acting on) Faith is one foot on the ground, one foot in the air and a queasy feeling in the stomach…

Peace
James
 
As historical sources go, we don’t really know if any of the apostles were martyred. Folk-tales, myths, legends, and some traditions are not “The” Tradition. Stephen and James-the-brother-of-John were stoned and beheaded respectively, as Luke records. Beyond that I’d rather not speculate.

Hebrews 1:11 seems the first real definition of faith: “the assurance of things hoped for; the conviction of things not seen”

… but putting our faith in a man with the bus-driver’s uniform on is not the same as believing in a man we’ve never seen, met, or heard. We can see the man in the uniform, and have faith that his intention is to drive from stop to stop. We cannot meet Jesus Christ, except by the claims of others. The Church says it is the source, but it points to the Scriptures for evidence - the Scriptures point to the Apostolic Testimony for evidence, which points to the one they knew, handled, and talked with.

The Church used to believe 1 John 5:7-8 included the words “Father, Son, and Holy Ghost”. These were dropped by JP II’s Nova Vulgata in the last quarter-century. What else was added, or subtracted over the long centuries? It’s disturbing to me…

Who do I believe in? God? Through Christ? Why through Christ, because the Scriptures say it? Why trust the Scriptures? It’s endless…
 
Yes it can be endless…Begin with Love…For it is the source and summit.

Peace
James
 
You know of any catholic authors who write about faith grace and works?
 
When I read this question, I find myself putting it in slightly different words (for myself): What is the *experience *of faith? What is the experience of trust? Sadly, I think for me even after many years of wavering and struggle and seeking, faith is still mostly an intellectual assent, a “yes” to a set of beliefs. I hope God doesn’t mind that too much, and helps me one day move on from there.
 
PeterJP said:
When I read this question, I find myself putting it in slightly different words (for myself): What is the *experience *of faith? What is the experience of trust? Sadly, I think for me even after many years of wavering and struggle and seeking, faith is still mostly an intellectual assent, a “yes” to a set of beliefs. I hope God doesn’t mind that too much, and helps me one day move on from there.
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Most all have to start out there…The tricky part is to start really living that which you ascent to. Only then can we begin to (eventually) have the “experience” of faith and trust - as our beliefs and our actions become more and more integrated…“second nature”…

Peace
James
 
WeSeeLight said:
Hello…

“Have faith” are common words, but does the Bible ever actually define it? Is it having an unshakeable conviction like 2+2=4, or is it simply trying to believe, despite doubts?

For two years, I have said Christ was real, died for us, rose for us, and is the Messiah. My heart spoke something differently… the New Testament is the only religious document that ever gave me chills and profound answers to some questions, yet deep inside Christ seems to be unsure…

Deuteronomy says that none should add to “these words”, yet more Books were added over the centuries. The New Testament writers speak of “the scriptures” as if they’re only the Old Testament… and the N.T. works don’t say “thus saith the Lord:” or “the word of the Lord came to me, saying:”, so how do we know what’s Scripture, apart from the testimony of sinful human beings? Just trusting the Church isn’t going to do, because that requires faith again, which hasn’t been defined yet.

I don’t seem to believe in Jesus Christ as I believe in one God, but how I want to! It’s distressing… if you have any answers, please do help a brother in need.
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Remember - Christianity does not come from the bible. The bible does not interpret itself nor force its explanation on anyone, which is why Rev. Martin Luther, OSB, after he separated himself from the Church Jesus founded wrote two catechisms to explain his version of the gospel. Put another way Christianity does not come from one’s guesswork on bible verses. The bible gives us salvation history, that is, how God has saved man from the slavery to sin through the ages, culminating in the Incarnation.
Christianity comes from the Apostles who learned the Gospel directly from Jesus Christ. In short it is the whole Catholic faith, as the Church teaches. The Apostles taught this word of God orally, as Jesus did, and as he commanded - go out and PREACH the Gospel to all creation. Now a written summary of that Gospel can be found in any official catechism of the Catholic Church. There are only two that I know of, The Roman Catechism (1566) & the Catechism of the Catholic Church (1992). These provide a written summary of this oral word of God which the Apostles & their successor bishops, under Petrine leadership, have been preaching for 2000 years. In it you will find the definition of “faith”. Basically it is the act of believing all divine revelation, that is, what the Church teaches in its ordinary and extraordinary magisterium. The basics of which can be found in those two catechisms. Of course there are other teaching documents too, but those are the basic teaching documents. Theologians and scripture scholars, even the best and most popular orthodox ones, do NOT have the charism of infallibility. Study the popes to understand what God has revealed and what this oral word means for us today.
 
Faith is our acceptance of the love of God the Father in Christ Jesus.
 
JOE_OBERR said:
Remember - Christianity does not come from the bible. The bible does not interpret itself nor force its explanation on anyone, which is why Rev. Martin Luther, OSB, after he separated himself from the Church Jesus founded wrote two catechisms to explain his version of the gospel. Put another way Christianity does not come from one’s guesswork on bible verses. The bible gives us salvation history, that is, how God has saved man from the slavery to sin through the ages, culminating in the Incarnation.
Christianity comes from the Apostles who learned the Gospel directly from Jesus Christ. In short it is the whole Catholic faith, as the Church teaches. The Apostles taught this word of God orally, as Jesus did, and as he commanded - go out and PREACH the Gospel to all creation. Now a written summary of that Gospel can be found in any official catechism of the Catholic Church. There are only two that I know of, The Roman Catechism (1566) & the Catechism of the Catholic Church (1992). These provide a written summary of this oral word of God which the Apostles & their successor bishops, under Petrine leadership, have been preaching for 2000 years. In it you will find the definition of “faith”. Basically it is the act of believing all divine revelation, that is, what the Church teaches in its ordinary and extraordinary magisterium. The basics of which can be found in those two catechisms. Of course there are other teaching documents too, but those are the basic teaching documents. Theologians and scripture scholars, even the best and most popular orthodox ones, do NOT have the charism of infallibility. Study the popes to understand what God has revealed and what this oral word means for us today.
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You really think that the apostle Paul taught the co-mediator doctrines of Mary? The necessity of remaining under roman jurisdiction? Where are these commands to Timothy?
 
Erick_Ybarra said:
You really think that the apostle Paul taught the co-mediator doctrines of Mary? The necessity of remaining under roman jurisdiction? Where are these commands to Timothy?
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Does Mary’s intercessory prayers on your behalf negate Jesus’ mediatorship or violate God’s love?

Does Peter naming as his successor a bishop of Rome negate God’s love?
 
Erick_Ybarra said:
You really think that the apostle Paul taught the co-mediator doctrines of Mary? The necessity of remaining under roman jurisdiction? Where are these commands to Timothy?
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St Paul, a Catholic bishop (as all early Christians were Catholic), probably did not teach the doctrine of Mary as co-mediatrix as this doctrine developed in Church history, much later. But your question presupposes that all Christian doctrine has to be found or rooted in the bible. Where does God say this must be? That all Christian doctrine and practice must be found somewhere in the bible? Where is the quote? Of course, even if there was such a quote it would be circular reasoning. Remember, Christianity does not come from one’s personal guesswork on bible verses. It comes from the Gospel, the oral word of God taught by the Apostles, then their successors through the ages as it is a living word which can be adapted to the current times. This Gospel is the faith of the Catholic Church, the creed, commandments, sacraments and prayer. As St Paul said, faith comes by hearing the word of God, which he preached and said was not the word of men but truly the word of God (1 Thes 2:13).
 
JRKH said:
  1. After Belief comes Faith. The difference between belief and faith, is simply this: I may believe in the existence of banks, but do I have faith in them? Faith gets into trusting and believing in the promises of God and believing in Jesus Christ and salvation through doing the will of the Father. Learning and developing our faith is nurturing and allowing the seed of God’s grace to grow in us.
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JRKH what is your source for this distinction? I am not really convinced there is any difference of significance. OK, one is a verb the other a noun.

Re the bank example… “but do I have faith in them?” and “but do I trust (in) them?” seem pretty much the same to me 😊.
 
Blue_Horizon said:
JRKH what is your source for this distinction? I am not really convinced there is any difference of significance. OK, one is a verb the other a noun.

Re the bank example… “but do I have faith in them?” and “but do I trust (in) them?” seem pretty much the same to me 😊.
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Faith is best understood as belief in truth by virtue of spiritual vision, even when there is no tangible evidence but unaffected by deceptive illusions. Hardness of heart is the opposite of faith and can be best described as unbelief caused by spiritual blindness that rejects truth despite glaring solid evidence but readily accepts untruth without any proof.

*“He said to them, ‘If they did not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’ ” *(Luke 16:31)

They fashioned a calf at Horeb and worshipped an image of metal, exchanging the God who was their glory to the image of a bull that eats grass. They forgot the God who was their saviour, who had done such great things in Egypt, such portents in the land of Ham, such marvels at the Red Sea. (Ps 106:19-22)
 
Blue_Horizon said:
JRKH what is your source for this distinction? I am not really convinced there is any difference of significance. OK, one is a verb the other a noun.
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I have no other source than my own understanding at the time I constructed the hierarchy.
Basically the distinction would be between an intellectual ascent (to believe something) and an embracing and internalizing of a belief and placing your trust in said belief (to have faith in something).
Re the bank example… “but do I have faith in them?” and “but do I trust (in) them?” seem pretty much the same to me 😊.
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correct…I do intend that they basically mean the same thing. Faith is something that combines belief and trust.

There is a story that is told of the tightrope walker who stretched a cable across Niagara Falls it goes something like…

He walked across 160 feet above falls several times, each time with a different and ever more daring feat - once in a sack, on stilts, on a bicycle, in the dark, and once he even carried a stove and cooked an omelet!

A large crowd gathered and a buzz of excitement ran along both sides of the river bank. The crowd “Oooohed!” and “Aaaaahed!” as the daredevil carefully walked across one dangerous step after another –
finally blindfolded and pushing a wheelbarrow.

Upon reaching the other side, the crowd’s applause was louder than the roar of the falls! The deredevil stopped and addressed his audience: "Do you believe I can carry a person across in this wheelbarrow?"The crowd enthusiastically shouted, “Yes, yes, yes. You are the greatest tightrope walker in the world. You can do anything!”

“Okay,” he said, “Who will get in the wheelbarrow…”
And here we have an illustration of the difference between “belief” and “faith”…

Peace
James
 
If Paul or any of the other apostles were unaware of certain truths concerning the faith then those truths are non-apostolic.

No, there is no verse in scripture which says that everything has to be found in the bible. But just as a historian who looks at all the relevant writings of antiquity, it is very easy to notice that the doctrines of Mary were novel ideas and that the modern devotion to mary is quite unapostolic in nature and practice, almost resembling a form of worship, not in theory but in practice.
 
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