What is god?

[Cbailey2]

So basically nobody knows? Can people not just say that?

That must be it, Mr. Darwin. No one knows. That’s why no one can explain it to you.

There are two logical explanations for why this has occured:

1. we really don’t know who or what God is or
2. you are incapable of understanding because you have made yourself so.

Which of these is likely? Because I guarantee you I can have a conversation with another Catholic, another Christian, a Jew, a Muslim, or most atheists and they will know exactly who (not what) I am talking about.

Furthermore, your definition of “what is a human” in the original post is woefully inadequate and only illustrates your difficulty in thinking outside of your box. You give us “human” as what others have classified it to be, not what it is.

A human, according to your definition is a carbon based life form that is Homo sapiens. That doesn’t tell me what a human is: it tells me what characteristics it has/doesn’t have. Humans, like any other animals, have been defined by comparison of traits, a process that works positively (a fish is a fish because it has gills) and negatively (a fish is not a dog because it lacks legs, fur, etc.). You fail to recognize that your explanation for what a human is is entirely based on attributes.

What you fail to mention in your original challenge is that you only seem interested in physical attributes (scientific taxonomy only extends to physical characteristics…thus, I would speak of human brain mass and not intelligence). But the commonly held definitions - the ones we base our laws around - ascribe non-physical characteristics to humans: things like intelligence, sentience, emotions, and, to the religious, a soul. What makes killing a man wrong but killing a cow delicious? Bipedalism? What makes aborting a fetus legal and killing a one month old murder? The size of the brain?

You apply a double standard to asking your question, so as to limit any answers to only that which you are intellectually comfortable trying to understand. I know Christians who believe in creationism and do the same exact thing with the theory of evolution (“tell me exactly how a monkey becomes a man or I won’t believe it!” they say). It’s a pity. They could learn a lot if they tried to think past their bias.

Taxonomy does not work for God (as He is unlike anything else)- or if you prefer - a superdomain, removed from the taxonomic tree by a long stem that is, in fact, the root of all.

 

[JulieAA]

I have no idea what that means? There is only one way to example claims, critically.

My goodness, Charles, you don’t understand what this means? With all due respect, Charles, to know and understand what I had said, you would have to be a simple person with an open heart. It is obvious you are an inquisitive person with a vast amount of knowledge, but sometimes all of that knowledge will get in the way of common sense. Open your eyes and heart, the universe screams the existence of God Almighty. Someday you will have the opportunity to come face to face with your Creator and He will tell you Himself just who He is! He loves you whether or not you acknowledge Him, just try opening your heart and mind and just listen.

 

[Charles_Darwin]

My goodness, Charles, you don’t understand what this means? With all due respect, Charles, to know and understand what I had said, you would have to be a simple person with an open heart. It is obvious you are an inquisitive person with a vast amount of knowledge, but sometimes all of that knowledge will get in the way of common sense. Open your eyes and heart, the universe screams the existence of God Almighty. Someday you will have the opportunity to come face to face with your Creator and He will tell you Himself just who He is! He loves you whether or not you acknowledge Him, just try opening your heart and mind and just listen.

I agree that one can look at certain aspects of the universe and see what at first appear to be creation. However when one digs deep that thin layer that looks like creation quickly disappears.

I bet you don’t get the feeling of the god almighty when you look at the underside of a tarantula.

Does this make you thing about the beauty of creation???

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

I am fascinated by the origin of man, i have looked into the subject in a fair degree of detail. However in doing so i have never came across anything that points to the existence of a creator. I have no reason to lie about it, that is just what i have found. Given the evidence that i personally have researched it would be dishonest of be to believe anything else.

 

[Fran65]

Well, yes, it is a thing of beauty. It has symmetry, balance, purpose and is what it is. Just as God is what He is.

BTW, you do know that posting that particular picture in that size is an act of aggression don’t you? Arachnophobia is common.

You could have posted anything from a duckbilled platypus to a hairless mexican mexican dog - all ‘unattractive’ in common judgement.

So why choose a spider in an aggressive attack position?

 

[JulieAA]

Charles,

Again, I am a simple person. When you look at a Rembrandt or a Van Gough, do you question that there was a creator involved in the painting? Which certain aspects of the universe “first” appear to be creation? Creation quickly disappears? Obviously death came into the world.

I do not understand your question to me regarding the “underside of a tarantula”. There is a purpose and a plan for every creation of God. Do I know the purpose behind each and every part of God’s creation? Obviously not. You state that you have looked into the subject on the origin of man, wonderful, but from what source? You are looking at man’s concept of man, not God’s.

 

[LizS]

What is God without naming attributes? God is pure “being”. God does not have to be tangible or visible for us to say anything about Him.

For an entity to be ANYTHING AT ALL (ie. to be defined, or given a classification as you did with “human”) it first has to exist - it has to “be”. It is therefore a “being”. But for all created “beings” without exception, their “being” is limited to one form or another (hence we get both classifications and attributes). God is unlimited, undefined “being” - the absolute value of everything.

This is the starting point. Without this we cannot begin to “classify” any more than we can begin to name attributes. The “attributes” of God are as absolute as His “being” is. All created “beings” are an imperfect image of a perfect God (ie. limited to some “form” or other). To put it another way - God gives things their being. His own “being” is infinitely greater than theirs. God does not derive His being from a higher source, as do all created entities, that derive their “being” from God.

As limited beings, our limited human minds cannot possibly conceive the extent of God’s unlimited greatness, but through our powers of reasoning which were given to us by God, we can at least find a starting point for saying WHAT God is. God has, after all, revealed Himself to us through His creation, and in human history.

Here is a list of the “transcendental properties of being” by which we CAN say WHAT God is.

Unity
Love
Truth
Goodness
Beauty
Wisdom (there are more but these are the most important)

We CAN therefore use the word “love” not only to say what God is like (attribute), but also to say what God actuallyIS.

The tarantula incidentally is most definitely a thing of beauty - that is because what defines its beauty is not your subjective opinion. And yes it does make me marvel at God - the amazing wisdom of God in the diversity and complexity of His creation. And yes I find it beautiful to look at in a subjective way too.

 

[warpspeedpetey]

If i was to ask you what is a car, a human, a god? What would you reply?

Would you say that a car is fast, good looking, a polluter?

Would you say that a human is caring, evil, pretty, strong?

Well if you did you would not have told me a single thing about what these things actually are.

If i asked you, what is Albert Einstein? Would you say he discovered relativity? Is that what he is? NO. Hes a human. So what is a human, what is a car?

Well a car is a wheeled mechanical device designed to transport people.They normally carry between 2-8 people. They have there own internal combustion engines, and wheels blah blah blah.

A human is a member of a species of bipedal primates in the family Hominidae.

Domain: Eukarya
Kingdom: Animalia
Phylum: Chordata
Superclass: Tetrapoda
Class: Mammalia
Infraclass: Eutheria
Order: Primates
Suborder: Haplorrhini
Infraorder: Simiiformes
Parvorder: Catarrhini
Superfamily: Hominoidea
Family: Hominidae
Subfamily: Homininae
Tribe: Hominini
Genus: Homo

They are carbon based life forms which DNA contains the genetic instructions blah blah blah.

Now even before we had such detailed explanations of what a human is we still knew what a human was. We just did not know the intricate details.

Ok now onto the biggy…

What is god?
**
I don’t want a list of attributes like “god is love”. As that is not an answer. I do not want he is the creater of the universe, for that is NOT what IT is.**

Now tell me this… How can i believe or disbelieving in something, what i don’t even know what that thing I’m supposed to be believing in is?

quite simply G-d is the maximal state of being. you could have just looked it up, thats how infer all those maximal qualities. you didnt think that we pulled them from thin air do you?

 

[shoewindow3000]

If i was to ask you what is a car, a human, a god? What would you reply?

Would you say that a car is fast, good looking, a polluter?

Would you say that a human is caring, evil, pretty, strong?

Well if you did you would not have told me a single thing about what these things actually are.

If i asked you, what is Albert Einstein? Would you say he discovered relativity? Is that what he is? NO. Hes a human. So what is a human, what is a car?

Well a car is a wheeled mechanical device designed to transport people.They normally carry between 2-8 people. They have there own internal combustion engines, and wheels blah blah blah.

A human is a member of a species of bipedal primates in the family Hominidae.

Domain: Eukarya
Kingdom: Animalia
Phylum: Chordata
Superclass: Tetrapoda
Class: Mammalia
Infraclass: Eutheria
Order: Primates
Suborder: Haplorrhini
Infraorder: Simiiformes
Parvorder: Catarrhini
Superfamily: Hominoidea
Family: Hominidae
Subfamily: Homininae
Tribe: Hominini
Genus: Homo

They are carbon based life forms which DNA contains the genetic instructions blah blah blah.

Now even before we had such detailed explanations of what a human is we still knew what a human was. We just did not know the intricate details.

Ok now onto the biggy…

What is god?
**
I don’t want a list of attributes like “god is love”. As that is not an answer. I do not want he is the creater of the universe, for that is NOT what IT is.**

Now tell me this… How can i believe or disbelieving in something, what i don’t even know what that thing I’m supposed to be believing in is?

God can only be known in this life indirectly.​

This next answer won’t be of any importance you, considering you are an atheist, but i will post it:

 There was a nun in the early part of the 20th century, St Faustina. She received revelations from Jesus Christ (He had her keep a notebook to record her messages.) Anyways, Jesus said to her, 
* "Who God is in His essence, no one, neither the minds of angels nor of man, will *ever* comprehend."*

She wrote that “you will contemplate on Who God is…and after millions of years of contemplation, you will realize that you have only just begun to know Him.”​

To quote God:

I promised the world a Messiah. I did all I could to prepare His coming, showing Myself in the figures that represented Him, even thousands of years before His coming! For who is this Messiah? Whence does He come? What will He do on earth? Whom does He represent? The Messiah is God. Who is God? God is the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. Whence does He come? Or rather, who ordered Him to come among men? It was I, His Father, God. Whom is He to represent on earth? His Father, God. What is He to do on earth? He will make the Father, God, known and loved. Did He not say: “Do you not know that I must be about My Father’s business?” I have come only to do the will of My Father.” “Whatever you ask the Father in My name, He will give you.” “You will pray to Him like this: ‘Our Father, Who art in heaven…’, and elsewhere, since He came to glorify the Father and to make Him known to men, He says: “Whoever sees Me, sees the Father.” “I am in the Father and the Father is in Me.” “No one comes to the Father except through Me” “Whoever is with Me is also with My Father”, etc.?
Realize then, o men, that for all eternity I have had but one desire, to make Myself known to men and be loved by them. I wish to stay for ever with them.

Do you want an authentic proof of this desire that I have just expressed? Why did I command Moses to build a tabernacle and the ark of the covenant, if not to come and dwell, as a Father, a brother, a close friend, with My creatures, men? This was My ardent desire. In spite of this, they have forgotten Me and offended Me with countless sins. I gave Moses My commandments to remind them, in spite of everything, of God, their Father, and of His sole wish, to save them. They were supposed to observe the commandments and thereby remember their infinitely good Father, always intent upon their present and eternal salvation. All this was forgotten and men sank into error and fear, considering that the observance of the commandments as I had transmitted them to Moses was too taxing. They made up other laws in accordance with their whims, in order to observe them more easily. Little by little, in the exaggerated fear they had of Me, they forgot Me more and more and heaped outrages upon Me. Yet My love for these men, My children, never quite ceased. When I realized that neither the patriarchs nor the prophets had been able to make Me known and loved by men, I decided to come Myself. But how could I come among them? There was no other way than to come Myself, in the second Person of My divinity. Would men know Me? Would they listen to Me? Nothing in the future was hidden from Me; I Myself answered these two questions: “They will ignore My presence, even though they will be near Me. In My Son they will treat Me cruelly, notwithstanding all the good He will do for them. In My Son they will speak ill of Me, they will crucify Me to bring about My death.” Shall I stop because of this? No, My love for My children, men, is too great.

 

[Charles_Darwin]

Well, yes, it is a thing of beauty. It has symmetry, balance, purpose and is what it is. Just as God is what He is.

BTW, you do know that posting that particular picture in that size is an act of aggression don’t you? Arachnophobia is common.

You could have posted anything from a duckbilled platypus to a hairless mexican mexican dog - all ‘unattractive’ in common judgement.

So why choose a spider in an aggressive attack position?

An act of aggression? Get a grip. Oh and i know Arachnophobia is common, i have it.

I told you exactly why i posted it. Because people don’t tend to get that warm fuzzy feeling when they see it. Yet is just as much a part of “creation” as a rainbow.

 

[Charles_Darwin]

Charles,

Again, I am a simple person. When you look at a Rembrandt or a Van Gough, do you question that there was a creator involved in the painting? Which certain aspects of the universe “first” appear to be creation? Creation quickly disappears? Obviously death came into the world.

I do not understand your question to me regarding the “underside of a tarantula”. There is a purpose and a plan for every creation of God. Do I know the purpose behind each and every part of God’s creation? Obviously not. You state that you have looked into the subject on the origin of man, wonderful, but from what source? You are looking at man’s concept of man, not God’s.

Well how do you know it was painted?

I look for empirical evidence, but forget that, i would like to know how you know it was painted?

 

[Charles_Darwin]

quite simply G-d is the maximal state of being. you could have just looked it up, thats how infer all those maximal qualities. you didnt think that we pulled them from thin air do you?

Does not tell me anything about what it is.

 

[Charles_Darwin]

What is God without naming attributes? God is pure “being”. God does not have to be tangible or visible for us to say anything about Him.

For an entity to be ANYTHING AT ALL (ie. to be defined, or given a classification as you did with “human”) it first has to exist - it has to “be”. It is therefore a “being”. But for all created “beings” without exception, their “being” is limited to one form or another (hence we get both classifications and attributes). God is unlimited, undefined “being” - the absolute value of everything.

This is the starting point. Without this we cannot begin to “classify” any more than we can begin to name attributes. The “attributes” of God are as absolute as His “being” is. All created “beings” are an imperfect image of a perfect God (ie. limited to some “form” or other). To put it another way - God gives things their being. His own “being” is infinitely greater than theirs. God does not derive His being from a higher source, as do all created entities, that derive their “being” from God.

As limited beings, our limited human minds cannot possibly conceive the extent of God’s unlimited greatness, but through our powers of reasoning which were given to us by God, we can at least find a starting point for saying WHAT God is. God has, after all, revealed Himself to us through His creation, and in human history.

Here is a list of the “transcendental properties of being” by which we CAN say WHAT God is.

Unity
Love
Truth
Goodness
Beauty
Wisdom (there are more but these are the most important)

We CAN therefore use the word “love” not only to say what God is like (attribute), but also to say what God actuallyIS.

The tarantula incidentally is most definitely a thing of beauty - that is because what defines its beauty is not your subjective opinion. And yes it does make me marvel at God - the amazing wisdom of God in the diversity and complexity of His creation. And yes I find it beautiful to look at in a subjective way too.

Again this does not tell me what god the entity is.

 

[warpspeedpetey]

Does not tell me anything about what it is.

sure it does, it actually tells you everything. being the maximal state of being infers all the maximal qalities. omnibenevolence, omnipotence, omniscience, omnipresence, etc.

if you mean that you want to know what G-d is apart from attributes, then we might describe Him as the being whose essence is existence.

indeed any adjective is simply a description of some part of the build up from existence.

deconstruct a red car, take away red and you have car, take away car and you have matter, take away matter and you have existence. all adjectives are ultimately reducible to existence, or “being”

take away all the adjectives from G-d and you have that maximal state of existence.

 

[Charles_Darwin]

sure it does, it actually tells you everything. being the maximal state of being infers all the maximal qalities. omnibenevolence, omnipotence, omniscience, omnipresence, etc.

if you mean that you want to know what G-d is apart from attributes, then we might describe Him as the being whose essence is existence.

indeed any adjective is simply a description of some part of the build up from existence.

deconstruct a red car, take away red and you have car, take away car and you have matter, take away matter and you have existence. all adjectives are ultimately reducible to existence, or “being”

take away all the adjectives from G-d and you have that maximal state of existence.

That’s all very good but what is it? For example how does it store it its knowledge?

 

[JulieAA]

Well how do you know it was painted?

I look for empirical evidence, but forget that, i would like to know how you know it was painted?

Charles, I am not sure that any of the responders on this site can reach you, as you are not open to receive, well, not at this time at least. No one can explain God to you because you are not open to hear Him. There is not a human being on the face of this earth that can explain in words what faith truly is, as it is a gift from God that is given freely to those who truly seek Him with an open heart and mind. With all due respect, I really do not believe that you are interested in knowing God as you are interested in a mindless game. If you receive and accept God into your life, that would mean that you have to admit that you have no control of your life and that you would be accountable to Him for all of your choices. Most non-believers are frightened to admit they are not in control of their life and that scares them, as it should. All of the worry and/or games will not add one simple second to your life. How sad to think “that this is all there is to life”. Please, while you still have a breath in your body, seek and search Him with an open heart. This will not be an easy life to follow; however, there will be a peace that you will not be able to put into words! I will pray for you, Charles.

 

[warpspeedpetey]

That’s all very good but what is it? For example how does it store it its knowledge?

i told you “what” it is, but i dont understand how “knowledge storage” has anything more to do with its essence than any other adjective we might use. i think im missing what your trying to get at?

 

[Charles_Darwin]

i told you “what” it is, but i dont understand how “knowledge storage” has anything more to do with its essence than any other adjective we might use. i think im missing what your trying to get at?

What i am trying to get at, it what is god the creature, what is it? Not what is gods personality, but what actually is it?

 

[LizS]

Again this does not tell me what god the entity is.

Of course it does. But what you actually seem to be stating to me …

I look for empirical evidence

…is that you dont accept that anything can actually exist if it cannot be proved by means of scientific testing.

For example how does it store it its knowledge?

A rock cant store knowledge. Does that mean we cant say what it is? And what actually IS knowledge? Can we prove empirically that this exists? It must do as you say that it can be stored!

 

[LizS]

What i am trying to get at, it what is god the creature, what is it? Not what is gods personality, but what actually is it?

It IS pure “being” - that is what it (God - lets have some respect) actually is - as warpspeedpetey stated in his excellent post

 

[warpspeedpetey]

What i am trying to get at, it what is god the creature, what is it? Not what is gods personality, but what actually is it?

ohhh…

G-d is not a creature, He does not have a taxonomical designation, if i were to use an illustration only for demonstration i might do it like this

exGis**-ted**nce, matter, life, domain, kingdom, phylum, class, order, family, genus, species.