What is 'grave matter', is it objective, and how do we know?

[DL82]

Is there any kind of definitive list of what is or is not grave matter as regards mortal sin? Thoughts can be mortal sin, so gravity isn’t just about consequences. There are things I slip into now that I feel I must go to confession about because I can see how they cut me off from God and from my neighbour, which I would have thought of as harmless fun a few months ago. Then again, some people can take that attitude too far and every tiny thing they do wrong is a mortal sin in their eyes, that’s scrupulosity, and I know I struggle with it. I have heard it said that any wilful sin against the 6th or 9th commandment is mortal, but then that doesn’t include a fleeting glance, even if you do consent to it, even though that’s part of a continuum that leads to degrading women.

Is there any way we can know for sure? Why isn’t the Church clearer on this? Why doesn’t the church just say “if you commit this sin, this sin, and this sin, you can’t receive communion”? It does that for some things, like contraception, where the lines are very clearly drawn, but less so for other things, like lying and vulgar speech, or coveting, for example.

I always think the best way is to take Our Lord at His word, whoever looks at a woman to lust after her has committed adultery, and adultery is a mortal sin, whoever says to his brother ‘you fool’ will be answerable to hell-fire. Only problem is, this is leading me to a kind of pride, where I feel like I can only approach the Blessed Sacrament immediately after confession, and even then spend the whole of mass staring at the floor and biting my tongue for fear I should sin again, and then I find it impossible to believe that the other people in the congregation are holding themselves to such standards of purity when they receive day after day, and that makes me want to judge them. I try to change, try to judge myself instead, but that just leads to more confusion. As St Paul says in 1 Corinthians, it’s not for me to judge myself even, but for God. Why doesn’t God’s Church then judge us by a more objective standard?

 

[antimon]

this list would have like 1 000 000 000+ items in it and besides, don’t you have any conscience as a guide?

 

[thistle]

Is there any kind of definitive list of what is or is not grave matter as regards mortal sin? Thoughts can be mortal sin, so gravity isn’t just about consequences. There are things I slip into now that I feel I must go to confession about because I can see how they cut me off from God and from my neighbour, which I would have thought of as harmless fun a few months ago. Then again, some people can take that attitude too far and every tiny thing they do wrong is a mortal sin in their eyes, that’s scrupulosity, and I know I struggle with it. I have heard it said that any wilful sin against the 6th or 9th commandment is mortal, but then that doesn’t include a fleeting glance, even if you do consent to it, even though that’s part of a continuum that leads to degrading women.

Is there any way we can know for sure? Why isn’t the Church clearer on this? Why doesn’t the church just say “if you commit this sin, this sin, and this sin, you can’t receive communion”? It does that for some things, like contraception, where the lines are very clearly drawn, but less so for other things, like lying and vulgar speech, or coveting, for example.

I always think the best way is to take Our Lord at His word, whoever looks at a woman to lust after her has committed adultery, and adultery is a mortal sin, whoever says to his brother ‘you fool’ will be answerable to hell-fire. Only problem is, this is leading me to a kind of pride, where I feel like I can only approach the Blessed Sacrament immediately after confession, and even then spend the whole of mass staring at the floor and biting my tongue for fear I should sin again, and then I find it impossible to believe that the other people in the congregation are holding themselves to such standards of purity when they receive day after day, and that makes me want to judge them. I try to change, try to judge myself instead, but that just leads to more confusion. As St Paul says in 1 Corinthians, it’s not for me to judge myself even, but for God. Why doesn’t God’s Church then judge us by a more objective standard?

CCC 1858 Grave matter is specified by the Ten Commandments, corresponding to the answer of Jesus to the rich young man: “Do not kill, Do not commit adultery, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Do not defraud, Honor your father and your mother.” The gravity of sins is more or less great: murder is graver than theft. One must also take into account who is wronged: violence against parents is in itself graver than violence against a stranger.

There is no list as such. However, check out these guides:

scborromeo.org/confess.htm
catholicparents.org/oxcart/Examination%20of%20Conscience.pdf

 

[DL82]

Are all the things in the scborromeo.org/confess.htm list supposed to be mortal sins?

Including, for example:

"Did I get angry, impatient, envious, unkind, proud, revengeful, jealous, hateful toward another, lazy? "

"Did I waste time at work, school or at home?
Did I envy other people’s families or possessions? "

I’m not sure I get through an average day without falling into some kind of sin in this area. Clearly, if this is supposed to be a list of mortal sins, I am still far short of being in a state of grace, but how do I get there? I can’t grow in holiness unless in a state of grace, and I want to grow in holiness to reach a state of grace. I know to trust in God, and I do try, but feel like a failure compared to those who are living even ‘ordinary’ not particularly saintly Catholic lives. How do you do it?

 

[DL82]

CCC 1858 Grave matter is specified by the Ten Commandments, corresponding to the answer of Jesus to the rich young man: “Do not kill, Do not commit adultery, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Do not defraud, Honor your father and your mother.” The gravity of sins is more or less great: murder is graver than theft.

Thanks thistle, but Jesus also defined these sins in a particular way - “whoever looks at a woman to lust after her has already committed adultery… whoever hates his brother has already committed murder” - if these are the definitions of grave matter, how can anyone be saved?

 

[teachccd]

Are all the things in the scborromeo.org/confess.htm list supposed to be mortal sins?

Including, for example:

"Did I get angry, impatient, envious, unkind, proud, revengeful, jealous, hateful toward another, lazy? "

"Did I waste time at work, school or at home?
Did I envy other people’s families or possessions? "

I’m not sure I get through an average day without falling into some kind of sin in this area. Clearly, if this is supposed to be a list of mortal sins, I am still far short of being in a state of grace, but how do I get there? I can’t grow in holiness unless in a state of grace, and I want to grow in holiness to reach a state of grace. I know to trust in God, and I do try, but feel like a failure compared to those who are living even ‘ordinary’ not particularly saintly Catholic lives. How do you do it?

On the flip side of the coin, remember that satan will do anything to keep you from knowing the mercy of God. As soon as you believe that you are never in the state of sanctifying grace satan can move into your despair.

Live a life of prayer. Visit the sacraments, including the Eucharist often. If you are SURE that you committed a mortal sin then get to confession. Make an act of perfect contrition beforehand. If you are not sure then most often you probably did not. Say a daily act of contrition and visit the confessional weekly, if needed.

But remember that God’s love is infinitely greater than any sin that we could ever commit and Jesus took our sins upon Himself and hung on a cross. He did this KNOWING that we would continue to sin until the end of time.

Don’t let satan get his way. First, know God’s love. Secondly, know your love for God and thirdly, know that in this covenantal relationship God is on your side. He is not there to see you separate yourself from Him. He would do anything in His infinite mercy and justice to find you united with HIm. So, yes, mortal sin exists as we can willfully reject God but we must ask ourselves, “What kind of a God do we have?” I believe that we have an infinitely forgiving God who continually extends His arms to us when we fall. All we must do is extend ours back…teachccd

 

[ericka1701]

I also struggle with this… alot. Of course when I was in school, I drove all of my teachers batty because I kept asking questions to clarify, or I would ask for specific examples for the material being taught.

I started praying that the Holy Father will help me make a good confession, and I now try my best to follow my conscious, and if I am in doubt about whether or not it’s a mortal sin, I will go ahead and confess it anyways. If I have sinned against God, regardless of its status (mortal v. venial), I like to have the knowledge and the “direct evidence” from God (through the priest) that I have been absolved from my sins. Also, if it is a venial sin that I am really struggling with, it helps me to confess it. Not only does it confer graces to help me with that particular sin, but for the overall state of my soul.

God Bless you!
Ericka

 

[Elizabeth502]

I think teachccd’s advice is good. I have experienced some of this in the past. The drive toward perfectionism, or the obsession with self-scrutiny, can lead us away from God – away from our focus on Him. Like the OP, I have looked at “examination” lists and wondered which category (mortal/venial) my sin is. What is more confusing is that there is more than one such list, and they often contradict each other.

Instead, I have learned to rely on my own honest experience of dread & regret. We all know our own worst weaknesses. These tend to be the sins that we confess repeatedly; our sense of shame about these may be unique to ourselves: others may judge such actions to be venial; our experience of them may be to humble us, reminding us of how ruled we are by one or more particular cardinal sins (pride, envy, gluttony, lust, anger, etc.), which drive the particular sins.

A prayerful heart & well-formed (not obsessively formed) conscience recognizes our “deadly” (cardinal) sins, & their frequent manifestations. This is why it’s good to read Scripture often, esp. NT. Both the Gospels and Paul. The reason I like to start with the cardinal sins is that they’re the ‘motivators.’ They frame my sins, which also helps me to give a context for them in confession. (“I did this because I was driven by ____”) That’s precisely what Jesus is talking about when he mentions lusting wtih the heart, killing with words. We may have the social conscience,public shame, and practical fear to avoid murder, but be perfectly fine with the relative safety of verbal violence which destroys reputations, injures relationships, and poisons our speech.

Jesus abhorred a spirituality governed by technicalities & categories. He illustrated time and again how such a focus often conveniently skirted the depth of depravity we can fall into when we fail to examine our “heart” (our gut, our private motivations – which is usually me/me/me), scrutinizing the outward behavior instead of the inward intention.

The more prayerful we become, the more conscious of God’s presence we become in our everyday lives, the more our instinct will be accurate and swift, when it comes to knowing our sin. I no longer think of sins as venial & mortal; it doesn’t work for me (even though I could probably pass a quiz on the technical differences). For me, sin is sin; it’s disgusting; it separates me from God; it repeats a pattern of putting self first, God last. I recently confessed a sin that others would probably judge to be a sin of omission (most of which are venial, not mortal). But in my case I was horrified at my lack of response to a situation that God had given me several signs of a need for proactive charity in this case. Didn’t matter what the “category” was; for me, I judged it to be a grave omission of compassion & went immediately to confession that day.

So to me, a “thorough” examination of conscience is a deep examination, not one beginning with a long list necessarily. Now and then I’ll refer to a list, but usually to make sure I haven’t forgotten occasions where my worst tendencies manifest in various outward behaviors.

 

[teachccd]

I think teachccd’s advice is good. I have experienced some of this in the past. The drive toward perfectionism, or the obsession with self-scrutiny, can lead us away from God – away from our focus on Him. Like the OP, I have looked at “examination” lists and wondered which category (mortal/venial) my sin is. What is more confusing is that there is more than one such list, and they often contradict each other.

Instead, I have learned to rely on my own honest experience of dread & regret. We all know our own worst weaknesses. These tend to be the sins that we confess repeatedly; our sense of shame about these may be unique to ourselves: others may judge such actions to be venial; our experience of them may be to humble us, reminding us of how ruled we are by one or more particular cardinal sins (pride, envy, gluttony, lust, anger, etc.), which drive the particular sins.

A prayerful heart & well-formed (not obsessively formed) conscience recognizes our “deadly” (cardinal) sins, & their frequent manifestations. This is why it’s good to read Scripture often, esp. NT. Both the Gospels and Paul. The reason I like to start with the cardinal sins is that they’re the ‘motivators.’ They frame my sins, which also helps me to give a context for them in confession. (“I did this because I was driven by ____”) That’s precisely what Jesus is talking about when he mentions lusting wtih the heart, killing with words. We may have the social conscience,public shame, and practical fear to avoid murder, but be perfectly fine with the relative safety of verbal violence which destroys reputations, injures relationships, and poisons our speech.

Jesus abhorred a spirituality governed by technicalities & categories. He illustrated time and again how such a focus often conveniently skirted the depth of depravity we can fall into when we fail to examine our “heart” (our gut, our private motivations – which is usually me/me/me), scrutinizing the outward behavior instead of the inward intention.

The more prayerful we become, the more conscious of God’s presence we become in our everyday lives, the more our instinct will be accurate and swift, when it comes to knowing our sin. I no longer think of sins as venial & mortal; it doesn’t work for me (even though I could probably pass a quiz on the technical differences). For me, sin is sin; it’s disgusting; it separates me from God; it repeats a pattern of putting self first, God last. I recently confessed a sin that others would probably judge to be a sin of omission (most of which are venial, not mortal). But in my case I was horrified at my lack of response to a situation that God had given me several signs of a need for proactive charity in this case. Didn’t matter what the “category” was; for me, I judged it to be a grave omission of compassion & went immediately to confession that day.

So to me, a “thorough” examination of conscience is a deep examination, not one beginning with a long list necessarily. Now and then I’ll refer to a list, but usually to make sure I haven’t forgotten occasions where my worst tendencies manifest in various outward behaviors.

Very well said…

 

[teachccd]

I also struggle with this… alot. Of course when I was in school, I drove all of my teachers batty because I kept asking questions to clarify, or I would ask for specific examples for the material being taught.

I started praying that the Holy Father will help me make a good confession, and I now try my best to follow my conscious, and if I am in doubt about whether or not it’s a mortal sin, I will go ahead and confess it anyways. If I have sinned against God, regardless of its status (mortal v. venial), I like to have the knowledge and the “direct evidence” from God (through the priest) that I have been absolved from my sins. Also, if it is a venial sin that I am really struggling with, it helps me to confess it. Not only does it confer graces to help me with that particular sin, but for the overall state of my soul.

God Bless you!
Ericka

Great advice!

 

[thistle]

Are all the things in the scborromeo.org/confess.htm list supposed to be mortal sins?

Including, for example:

"Did I get angry, impatient, envious, unkind, proud, revengeful, jealous, hateful toward another, lazy? "

"Did I waste time at work, school or at home?
Did I envy other people’s families or possessions? "

I’m not sure I get through an average day without falling into some kind of sin in this area. Clearly, if this is supposed to be a list of mortal sins, I am still far short of being in a state of grace, but how do I get there? I can’t grow in holiness unless in a state of grace, and I want to grow in holiness to reach a state of grace. I know to trust in God, and I do try, but feel like a failure compared to those who are living even ‘ordinary’ not particularly saintly Catholic lives. How do you do it?

Please bear in mind these are guides and not official Church documents. Most things on the list are clearly grave while others can be but are not necessarily so. Anger, for example, could be both venial or grave depending on its extent.