What is grave matter?

[mariospeed]

Defined in catechism:

"[1858](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/1858.htm’) Grave matter is specified by the Ten Commandments, corresponding to the answer of Jesus to the rich young man: "Do not kill, Do not commit adultery, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Do not defraud, Honor your father and your mother.“132 The gravity of sins is more or less great: murder is graver than theft. One must also take into account who is wronged: violence against parents is in itself graver than violence against a stranger.”

My problem, if you’ll bear with me, surrounds this definition. In essence, all sin falls under 10 commandments. For example, lustful thoughts fall under adultery, and wishing ill of someone falls under murder. At what point does something become grave? I find myself going to confession almost weekly because I don’t know if a thought is sufficiently lustfull to be grave, or an ill thought of someone is sufficiently “ill” to be grave. If I am purposefully lazy at work, am I defrauding my employer, and the sin is mortal? I err on the side of going to confession, but I don’t want to be too scupulous. I have not gone to communion prior to confession in case these are mortal, because I do them with full knowledge and consent.

Specifically, is looking at a bikini-clad magazine cover not only once, but several times, while in a grocery line-up, a grave matter? I’m being lustful, I look repeatedly (which is under my control). Is wishing someone will fail a job interview a grave matter? I am wishing them ill in that sense. My issue is, gravity should not be a matter of opinion. Has it been more clearly defined anywhere?

I appreciate your help!

 

[thistle]

mariospeed:

Defined in catechism:

"[1858](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/1858.htm’) Grave matter is specified by the Ten Commandments, corresponding to the answer of Jesus to the rich young man: "Do not kill, Do not commit adultery, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Do not defraud, Honor your father and your mother.“132 The gravity of sins is more or less great: murder is graver than theft. One must also take into account who is wronged: violence against parents is in itself graver than violence against a stranger.”

My problem, if you’ll bear with me, surrounds this definition. In essence, all sin falls under 10 commandments. For example, lustful thoughts fall under adultery, and wishing ill of someone falls under murder. At what point does something become grave? I find myself going to confession almost weekly because I don’t know if a thought is sufficiently lustfull to be grave, or an ill thought of someone is sufficiently “ill” to be grave. If I am purposefully lazy at work, am I defrauding my employer, and the sin is mortal? I err on the side of going to confession, but I don’t want to be too scupulous. I have not gone to communion prior to confession in case these are mortal, because I do them with full knowledge and consent.

Specifically, is looking at a bikini-clad magazine cover not only once, but several times, while in a grocery line-up, a grave matter? I’m being lustful, I look repeatedly (which is under my control). Is wishing someone will fail a job interview a grave matter? I am wishing them ill in that sense. My issue is, gravity should not be a matter of opinion. Has it been more clearly defined anywhere?

I appreciate your help!

Have a look at this guidleine for examination of conscience:

www.catholic.org/frz/examen/mortal_main.htm

 

[mariospeed]

Hi Thistle,

Thanks for the link, however I don’t think this examination of conscience was meant to be an all-inclusive list of grave matter (not even sure who the author is). Some in the list I may question, such as only stealing large amounts being grave.

My problem is with the apparent subjectivity of grave matter. Since it is pivotal in defining mortal sin,and therefore guiding our confession and communion, it is a bit subjective. I’m not talking about the dead obvious sins like murder, but sliding scales of lust, wishing ill, defrauding, etc. that can all take place in various degrees quite easily (too easily)!

Is there anything else on this matter defined by the Church?

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

mariospeed:

Defined in catechism:

"1858 Grave matter is specified by the Ten Commandments, corresponding to the answer of Jesus to the rich young man: "Do not kill, Do not commit adultery, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Do not defraud, Honor your father and your mother.“132 The gravity of sins is more or less great: murder is graver than theft. One must also take into account who is wronged: violence against parents is in itself graver than violence against a stranger.”

My problem, if you’ll bear with me, surrounds this definition. In essence, all sin falls under 10 commandments. For example, lustful thoughts fall under adultery, and wishing ill of someone falls under murder. At what point does something become grave? I find myself going to confession almost weekly because I don’t know if a thought is sufficiently lustfull to be grave, or an ill thought of someone is sufficiently “ill” to be grave. If I am purposefully lazy at work, am I defrauding my employer, and the sin is mortal? I err on the side of going to confession, but I don’t want to be too scupulous. I have not gone to communion prior to confession in case these are mortal, because I do them with full knowledge and consent.

Specifically, is looking at a bikini-clad magazine cover not only once, but several times, while in a grocery line-up, a grave matter? I’m being lustful, I look repeatedly (which is under my control). Is wishing someone will fail a job interview a grave matter? I am wishing them ill in that sense. My issue is, gravity should not be a matter of opinion. Has it been more clearly defined anywhere?

I appreciate your help!

It is subjective which is why I always say that the only place to determine the gravity of a sin in the Sacrament of Confession. For me Grave matter is anything that destroys or harms my relationship with God or another person.

As an example taking a bag of cheese crackers from a person is no big thing. It is stealing, but no big deal. What if that person is a homless person and that bag of crackers is the only thing they have to eat that evening. During the night their blood sugar crashes and they die because they had nothing to eat. Would that be considered grave matter? It was JUST a bag of crackers, how was I to know that the guy was going to die because I took his crackers!

 

[mariospeed]

Br. Rich SFO:

It is subjective which is why I always say that the only place to determine the gravity of a sin in the Sacrament of Confession. For me Grave matter is anything that destroys or harms my relationship with God or another person.

As an example taking a bag of cheese crackers from a person is no big thing. It is stealing, but no big deal. What if that person is a homless person and that bag of crackers is the only thing they have to eat that evening. During the night their blood sugar crashes and they die because they had nothing to eat. Would that be considered grave matter? It was JUST a bag of crackers, how was I to know that the guy was going to die because I took his crackers!

That’s why I would like more guidelines, because I find myself going to confession almost weekly, and not receiving the Eucharist if I don’t make it to confession. It’s because of my (subjective) view of gravity, and I err on the side of “grave”. It shouldn’t be a trial-and-error, case-based determination, where you only find out in the confessional wether or not it was grave matter.

In the cracker theft example, my opinion would be that it was grave matter in either case because it is theft, and was done with full knowledge and consent of will. The consequences of the theft are beyond your knowledge or control, and should have no effect on the gravity of the sin itself. But that’s my opinion (that’s the problem!) I don’t want it to be subjective! Aren’t there any Church guidelines?

Thanks for the response!

 

[trogiah]

I don’t know if this applies to what you are asking but here goes:

Regarding sinfullness and forgiveness, Jesus states over and over in parables and in direct language - Those who practice forgiveness are those who are forgiven.

Perhaps the word “grave sin” must be clearly defined. Does it mean a sin for which you are not forgiven? What kind of sins do you forgive others easily and which do you not.

Would you be outraged if a person stole a bag of crackers from you? Then for you to steal a bag of crackers would be a serious matter.

Would you not give that bag of crackers a second thought? Then God would not hold you tightly bound for stealing a bag of crackers.

All sins tend to take us from the fullness of life that is available in God’s kingdom and so we should make every effort in our lives to avoid sin. Whether or not we are forgiven for those sins depends on our own ability to forgive others.

Does this mean anything regarding your question?

peace

Jim