What is happening in Matthew 1?

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I would be interested in hearing people’s thoughts on Matthew 1, 18-end.

Here is my take. Joseph finds that Mary has conceived, and he knows that this is supernatural: a virginal conception. He knows, then, that Mary has conceived the Messiah. So, “being a just man,” Joseph realizes that he cannot remain with Mary, because he views himself as unworthy to be involved in this matter. On the other hand, he cannot “expose” her. So he “is minded to put her away privately”: that is, find some arrangement for her and the messiah, something private (so that they are untroubled and even unknown).

The angel appears to Joseph and says, you are right, this is the messiah, but you are wrong, in thinking him to be a mere man. Rather, he is conceived of the Holy Ghost. Joseph learns about the Trinity. Now he can take Mary, because he cannot “mess up” the messiah, in the way he thought he might.

Something like that. It seems to me that, perhaps, the Trinity (along with the Incarnation) is at the heart of these verses. Perhaps this is what is meant in the last verse, that Joseph “knew her not till…”, Mary being so intimately in the Trinity.
 
Joseph didn’t know she was carrying the Messiah or that it was a virgin birth until after when the angel appeared to him in a dream if I am remembering right.

Before that St. Joseph was simply trying to protect Mary and deal with the situation as the good man he was.
 
I am over my head in discussing this in any detail, but there seems to be something of a parallel between the Joseph in Mt and the Joseph in Genesis.

There is the matter that both of them are involved somehow with dreams.

Genesis-Joseph has some involvement with pharoah’s wife which would have been illicit, and there’s a whiff of illicitness in Mt-Joseph’s involvement with Mary.

Mt-Joseph takes Mary and Jesus to hide out in Egypt, in safety, while Gen-Joseph attracts his family to live safely in Egypt.

There may be more.
 
William2 said:
I would be interested in hearing people’s thoughts on Matthew 1, 18-end.

Here is my take. Joseph finds that Mary has conceived, and he knows that this is supernatural: a virginal conception. He knows, then, that Mary has conceived the Messiah. So, “being a just man,” Joseph realizes that he cannot remain with Mary, because he views himself as unworthy to be involved in this matter. On the other hand, he cannot “expose” her. So he “is minded to put her away privately”: that is, find some arrangement for her and the messiah, something private (so that they are untroubled and even unknown).

The angel appears to Joseph and says, you are right, this is the messiah, but you are wrong, in thinking him to be a mere man. Rather, he is conceived of the Holy Ghost. Joseph learns about the Trinity. Now he can take Mary, because he cannot “mess up” the messiah, in the way he thought he might.

Something like that. It seems to me that, perhaps, the Trinity (along with the Incarnation) is at the heart of these verses. Perhaps this is what is meant in the last verse, that Joseph “knew her not till…”, Mary being so intimately in the Trinity.
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Can anyone answer all 17 questions and prove that Cathoilcism or Christianity is the Truth, using historical sciences and scholarly work. Tu quoquo answers, opinions, and whims do not reflect Absolute Truth. Looking forward to a great discussion. You can view all 17 questions below:

youtube.com/watch?v=HYOvFXKkzWQ

P.S. Stop blocking me. This just shows how the Catholic Church claims immunity from anything, including sexual acts done by priests.
 
There is definitely a parallel between the “going down into” and “returning from” Egypt, which Matthew himself points out.

That both Jesus’ foster father and Jacob’s son have dream-visions is true but I’m not sure if it is terribly significant as lots of other people in the Scriptures also have them. And St. Joseph’s vision is a direct and explicit warning to the Holy Family while the visions Joseph has as a child and those of various Egyptians for whom he gives interpretations are more codified predictors of the future.

OT Joseph is falsely accused of rape by the wife of his employer Potiphor (not Pharoah). NT Joseph is not accused of anything, he is trying to protect Mary from being executed for illicit sexual relations.
 
Advocatus_Fidei said:
Joseph didn’t know she was carrying the Messiah or that it was a virgin birth until after when the angel appeared to him in a dream if I am remembering right.

Before that St. Joseph was simply trying to protect Mary and deal with the situation as the good man he was.
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Just to add to this point, if Joseph would have exposed to his Jewish brothers that Mary was pregnant and the baby was not his, Mary could have been subject to stoning. How much Joseph knew at this point (Mary could have explained the whole scenario… I know that I would have) is debatable, but the fact that Joseph wanted to protect Mary is clear.
 
A just man will not judge if there isn’t eneough information to decide. Joseph was tested as a judge in a situation that presented the most convincing evidence possible to make a decision yet because it was Our Blessed Mother on trial even that wasn’t eneough information to judge her as guilty. In the OT somewhere it say’s there is not a just man anywhere, no not one (pp). In the NT the Holy Spirit call Joseph a just man. His justice was proven and rewarded with the revelation of the Incarnation.
 
Benadam said:
A just man will not judge if there isn’t eneough information to decide. Joseph was tested as a judge in a situation that presented the most convincing evidence possible to make a decision yet because it was Our Blessed Mother on trial even that wasn’t eneough information to judge her as guilty. In the OT somewhere it say’s there is not a just man anywhere, no not one (pp). In the NT the Holy Spirit call Joseph a just man. His justice was proven and rewarded with the revelation of the Incarnation.
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Look at psalm 14. The psalmist is speaking of the people who don’t trust in the Lord, when he says, “there is not a just man anywhere…”. I think the psalm opens with, “The Fool says there is no God”.

I would still imagine that Mary told Joseph everything that the Angel Gabriel said. He wasn’t judging her, in my opinion, so much as protecting her from the judgment of the Mosaic Law. When the Jews saw that Mary was pregnant, they would ask Joseph if he was the father. He, being an upright man, would lie to them, opening up the possibility that Mary could be stoned.
 
NotWorthy said:
Look at psalm 14. The psalmist is speaking of the people who don’t trust in the Lord, when he says, “there is not a just man anywhere…”. I think the psalm opens with, “The Fool says there is no God”.

I would still imagine that Mary told Joseph everything that the Angel Gabriel said. He wasn’t judging her, in my opinion, so much as protecting her from the judgment of the Mosaic Law. When the Jews saw that Mary was pregnant, they would ask Joseph if he was the father. He, being an upright man, would lie to them, opening up the possibility that Mary could be stoned.
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The justice required of Joseph was of a different order than the psalmist wrote about. The author of Ecclesiasticus alludes to the absence of it.
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For there is no just man upon earth, that doth good, and sinneth not.
*

If the divorce was not made public I wouldn’t think the paternity of the child would be questioned. I think Joseph was willing to appear as husband for Mary’s sake and not be for the sake of his bloodline.
The Incarnation isn’t something Mary could reveal to Joseph in a way necessary for him to act in faith of it’s truth.

Joseph wouldn’t allow his bloodline to be polluted and by his decision to divorce we can know in his mind this circumstance posed a risk. It indicates that Mary’s pregnancy was something he didn’t understand untill it was revealed to him from heaven.

Bcause he recognized Mary’s sanctity he couldn’t accept that Mary had committed adultery. But she was pregnant. He did judge her. He judged that she was a holy woman who was pregnant not by a fault of her own. Because he recognized Mary’s sanctity he couldn’t expose her to life as a harlot.

His solution would require that he deny himself the marital embrace. That he may have already decided but Mary’s pregnancy required that he carry out the duties of one who enjoyed those rights. IMO this decision confirmed his commitment to what he promises. It revealed that he was willing to do what he ought to do under the most extraordinary conditions. It was directly after that decision the Incarnation was revealed to him. Because he showed himself to be a man who say’s yes to love at every moment. I’m convinced that this was the test that proved him fitting to recieve from heaven the revelation of the Incarnation.
 
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