What Is Heaven?

[remoat]

what is heaven? it isn’t sitting on clouds with wings on our backs… it isn’t watching the universe go by, like planes landing and taking off… i believe heaven is a place which is described by a single characteristic: the presence of god… being in gods’ presence has to be the ultimate experience for any rational entity… it has to be the maximum experience possible… i believe heaven’s reward is a plain and simple statement: in heaven, we praise god for who he is, and we thank him for selecting us to join him, and that’s all, period…

when we die, i believe everything we are and know is shed, like a butterfly shedding a cocoon… does a butterfly know or care what his life was like before his metamorphosis, when he was a caterpillar? no way… exiting the cocoon, the butterfly is a unique creature… totally unlike and unknowing his prior existence… i believe our transition from the here and now to the hereafter is much like the transition of the caterpillar entering the cocoon and exiting the cocoon as a wholly new creature, so different in appearance, function and destiny…

what do we bring with us on a trip to our reward? exactly nothing… we carry our soul, period… our soul has no memory of our life here, as there is no need of a recall of who we were, where we lived, etc… this knowledge is “added baggage” because it serves no purpose to possess this recall in heaven… what could compare to sitting at the right hand of god for eternity? graduating from college? falling in love? your favorite pet? winning the lottery? by definition, god is the totality of the universe… god is in everything and everything is derived from god… that our soul is chosen to experience eternity in god’s presence is the sum total of all the universe is, was, or could be… nothing can equal god sharing his kingdom with us, therefore, there is no need of retaining memories of our life on earth as mere mortals…

but, if you prefer to believe that you will retain memories of life here when you’re in the great beyond, that’s fine… if you want to believe that a loving god would not deny you the memories of your good times on earth, that’s fine… but, what are the good times that you want to retain when in heaven? how do you separate the good from the bad? you will have a memory of holding your dog or cat and playing with it-- but what about when the pet was ill, or run over by a car? would you also have that memory? do you want to remember your first child? that’s o.k., but what about when the child was sick? what about when the child cried when attacked by a bully at school, or failing a test or being shunned by a girl or boyfriend? the same things that give you good memories can also give you bad memories… how do you separate what you want from what you don’t? seems like a complex call to make…

what about identity? would we know who we were and would we recognize anyone from our past? no… there is nothing to recall… as for identity, god knows who we are and who we were… his consciousness knows all and is aware of everything… we might be aware of other souls, but here is no exchange between them… there is no need… we are conversing with god, and that covers everything…

does heaven seem boring? it does to us, because we measure the reward in human terms… from the moment we are born, we are experiencing and recording our existence… we store data and retrieve it for use later… subconsciously, we compare our present settings to what we recall from a previous experience… we continually compare what we do, where we are with our memory of what we recall when we were last in a particular location, or circumstance… we walk in the front door at home and we compare what we see right now with what we recall when we were last at home… usually, the present matches the recall and everything’s o.k… the difference in recall comes in if we enter our home and our property is damaged or missing… the recall doesn’t match the present situation, and we might conclude there has been a robbery… we all know sayings like, “if john is watching us from heaven, he would be pleased”… i don’t think so… the souls aren’t watching anyone or anything… why? isn’t heaven supposed to be a happy place? “our heavenly reward”, remember? if our predecessors are in heaven and watching us, what would they see? is earth all that great a place to be? is there so much to be proud of? is watching us in our misery, our tragedies our horrors, a happy show? can any soul enjoy heaven if it knows what burdens we carry down here?

in heaven, there is no comparison with our past life on earth, because the consciousness of our soul isn’t aware of a past; so, there is no recall… only eternity… we are in the presence of god; we praise him for being god and we thank him for offering to share eternity with him…

but, i could be wrong!

 

[thedavidwilson]

Wow! So many heresies so little time…

it isn’t sitting on clouds with wings on our backs

If by wings on our backs we will be like angels that is false. We will never be like angels. Angels are spirits we are spirits and souls. It is like comparing an apple to a human.

when we die, i believe everything we are and know is shed, like a butterfly shedding a cocoon… does a butterfly know or care what his life was like before his metamorphosis, when he was a caterpillar? no way… exiting the cocoon, the butterfly is a unique creature… totally unlike and unknowing his prior existence…

This is a heresy. We retain our identity and memories. How do the saints pray for us if they do not remember the life they use to live? Why would they pray for us? In your concept all they know is heavan. We are aware of the lost of our bodies becasue we are spirirt and soul and souls need a body to occupy. While we are aware of this loss we are satisfied since we are in the presence of God.

If we do not have any past memories then why be good in life? I might as well rob banks for a living. It would be a pretty exciting life and I would have more money. When I die I will forget all of this. Since I have forgotten all of my sins I could not possibly turn away from God. I would be in heavan regardless of how I lived my life.

Are you Catholic?

what do we bring with us on a trip to our reward? exactly nothing… we carry our soul, period… our soul has no memory of our life here, as there is no need of a recall of who we were, where we lived, etc… this knowledge is “added baggage” because it serves no purpose to possess this recall in heaven…

How do we know that heavan is good if we have nothing to compare it to? How then would we enjoy it? If I asked my grandfather to pray for me (assuming he is in heavan) how could he? He would have forgotten I even exist!

what could compare to sitting at the right hand of god for eternity? graduating from college? falling in love? your favorite pet? winning the lottery? by definition, god is the totality of the universe… god is in everything and everything is derived from god… that our soul is chosen to experience eternity in god’s presence is the sum total of all the universe is, was, or could be… nothing can equal god sharing his kingdom with us, therefore, there is no need of retaining memories of our life on earth as mere mortals…

There is no need of anything when it comes to God. He allows us to retain our memories because it represents our free will. What’s the use of being granted free will and using it, if it will be taken away eventually? We are immortal creatures with free will. Take away our free will we cease to be human. We become animals who have a soul (animating life force) but do not have a spirit.

if you want to believe that a loving god would not deny you the memories of your good times on earth, that’s fine… but, what are the good times that you want to retain when in heaven? how do you separate the good from the bad?

Memories are bad when you are not conforming to the will of God. But even these are good memories because they represent your journey to learn how to conform to the will of God. If you did not eventually conform to the will of God then you would not be in heavan.

but what about when the child was sick? what about when the child cried when attacked by a bully at school, or failing a test or being shunned by a girl or boyfriend?

You should thank God for all of these since these are opportunties He is presenting to you to conform your will to His. You should read this:
psalm40.org/conformity.html

how do you separate what you want from what you don’t? seems like a complex call to make…

The only thing you want is to conform your will to His. If this was not true you would be in Hell.

what about identity? would we know who we were and would we recognize anyone from our past? no… there is nothing to recall… as for identity, god knows who we are and who we were… his consciousness knows all and is aware of everything… we might be aware of other souls, but here is no exchange between them… there is no need… we are conversing with god, and that covers everything…

Then how do the saints pray for us? Why did god give us an identity, which represents our free will, in the first place?

in heaven, there is no comparison with our past life on earth, because the consciousness of our soul isn’t aware of a past; so, there is no recall… only eternity… we are in the presence of god; we praise him for being god and we thank him for offering to share eternity with him…

Heresy.

but, i could be wrong!

That’s the first correct thing in this post.

 

[remoat]

QUOTE: “Heresy.”

well, i guess im condemned… i dont know who this authority is, or what his/her credentials are, but i suppose im not equipped to challenge the decision… the criticisms are interesting, but they are also non sequiturs… i mean, come on, i express an opinion about memories in the hereafter, and the reply is some saccharine statement about god loving us and wanting us to remember what we had in the “therebefore”? i discuss what i think might be possible and im refuted by someone who is stating for certain, what really exists in another plane? and the “trruth” of the refutation is derived from an interpretive reflection of one person’s belief in the bible?
PUH-LEEZE!

the bible teaches us about christianity and bringing others into the fold of the shepherd’s flock; it isn’t about nit-picking another’s views and yelling, “NEINER-NEINER!” you’re wrong, god told me so!"… “spreading the word” is about practicing our beliefs and soliciting others to consider making our beliefs part of their lives… it isn’t about finger-wagging, condescension, or hubris or whatever… i am not a student of the bible, but there is a parable told by christ to an audience about 2 men praying in the temple; one says, in so many words, “lord, i am a just and devout believer; i observe all holydays; i tithe to my temple; i pay my workers fair wages and train my family to follow your word; surely, you will look with favor upon my soul and offer me a place beside you…” the other praying man says, “lord, i have sinned; i have not followed your law; i have transgressed against my neighbor; i have squandered my fortunes and invoked your name against my enemies; if you would but forgive me and offer mercy, i will follow you and make amends…” the question put to the audience was, “who should the lord favor and who should he reject?” i wont spoil the ending, but i will say they both got what they deserved…

bottom line: knock off the judgementality and work on tolerance; noone has the inside track on christianity… we learn more about others by listening to them than by handing out “either-or” ultimatums… god’s way is not “my way or the highway”… his way is to join him willingly or go our own way, but with his love and understanding, in any case… it is so strange that christians confront those with different views than their own by taking an “old testament” attitude (you enter this life condemend; you will exit it condemned lest you refute your sins and commit to the lord)… the most valuable part of the bible is the new testament: god loves you and understands you bett than you understand yourself… ask him for help; ask him for guidance; there is no obligation to commit at any time, but if you do commit, your life will change and your imperfections will wither away like old leaves in the fall…

 

[eelpis]

It’s got to be good beacuse it takes a lot to get there.

 

[thedavidwilson]

QUOTE: “Heresy.”

well, i guess im condemned… i dont know who this authority is, or what his/her credentials are, but i suppose im not equipped to challenge the decision… the criticisms are interesting, but they are also non sequiturs… i mean, come on, i express an opinion about memories in the hereafter, and the reply is some saccharine statement about god loving us and wanting us to remember what we had in the “therebefore”? i discuss what i think might be possible and im refuted by someone who is stating for certain, what really exists in another plane? and the “trruth” of the refutation is derived from an interpretive reflection of one person’s belief in the bible?
PUH-LEEZE!

the bible teaches us about christianity and bringing others into the fold of the shepherd’s flock; it isn’t about nit-picking another’s views and yelling, “NEINER-NEINER!” you’re wrong, god told me so!"… “spreading the word” is about practicing our beliefs and soliciting others to consider making our beliefs part of their lives… it isn’t about finger-wagging, condescension, or hubris or whatever… i am not a student of the bible, but there is a parable told by christ to an audience about 2 men praying in the temple; one says, in so many words, “lord, i am a just and devout believer; i observe all holydays; i tithe to my temple; i pay my workers fair wages and train my family to follow your word; surely, you will look with favor upon my soul and offer me a place beside you…” the other praying man says, “lord, i have sinned; i have not followed your law; i have transgressed against my neighbor; i have squandered my fortunes and invoked your name against my enemies; if you would but forgive me and offer mercy, i will follow you and make amends…” the question put to the audience was, “who should the lord favor and who should he reject?” i wont spoil the ending, but i will say they both got what they deserved…

bottom line: knock off the judgementality and work on tolerance; noone has the inside track on christianity… we learn more about others by listening to them than by handing out “either-or” ultimatums… god’s way is not “my way or the highway”… his way is to join him willingly or go our own way, but with his love and understanding, in any case… it is so strange that christians confront those with different views than their own by taking an “old testament” attitude (you enter this life condemend; you will exit it condemned lest you refute your sins and commit to the lord)… the most valuable part of the bible is the new testament: god loves you and understands you bett than you understand yourself… ask him for help; ask him for guidance; there is no obligation to commit at any time, but if you do commit, your life will change and your imperfections will wither away like old leaves in the fall…

The Catholic Church has certain teachings on Theology and beliefs contrary to those beliefs are heresy. You are not condemmed but the concepts you wrote are. You actually re-iterated some very old heresies. Do some research on them. There are reasons they are not true. If it does not matter what the Chruch teaches (i.e. it is not infallible) then what is the point in being Catholic?

If you truely believe these things and you are Catholic you need to see a Priest and get Catholic Theology straight. What is at risk is your soul.

 

[abucs]

I think it’s good to express our thoughts on such things and ‘remoat’ has posted some interesting topics lately although my thinking on Heaven would not agree with the OP.

I think we have to be careful in describing Heaven as a blissful emotion ignorant to just about everything except that bliss.

By that definition it sounds like an overdose of drugs and doesn’t encompass one of the great joys of life which is diversity, mystery and purpose.

If God can create such a complex universe, then surely ‘knowing God’ would also be equally (if not more) complex. Certainly more complex than a ‘bliss overdose’.

I think part of Gods complexity and wonder is in his expressions - each of us for example. To take ‘us’ away from the equation of Heaven would seem a little less ‘wondrous’.

We also say that out of love God created us with our gift of free will. Can we love without free will ?
If we have free will then are we not still us in Heaven ? Will God take back his gift of love ?
That’s not my understanding of Heaven.

All i can guess about this is what is written in the bible, what logic would dictate and what i learn from Christian theologians - including the amateur fellow travellers on CAF.

But i also could be wrong.

 

[remoat]

QUOTE: You are not condemmed but the concepts you wrote are. You actually re-iterated some very old heresies. Do some research on them. There are reasons they are not true. If it does not matter what the Chruch teaches (i.e. it is not infallible) then what is the point in being Catholic?

If you truely believe these things and you are Catholic you need to see a Priest and get Catholic Theology straight. What is at risk is your soul.

---

you may have memorized the definition of "heresy’, but you dont have a clue as to the implications or protocols involved in presenting a case for heresy or justifying the arguments in support of such a claim…

first thing is, noone but the bishop of rome has the power to declare a writing heretical or any person guilty of heresy, which only results from lenghty investigations and interviews, which might consume years… i doubt that you are he…
second thing is, throwing out such terminology like a cigarette from a window places you under scrutiny: who are you to make such an accusation? are you trained in theology? have you studied the history of heresy in various dogmas, those who were accused and those who made the final judfgments? can you cite instances comparable to this event that support such an accusation?
third thing is, a charge of heresy is a serious matter, in religious and civil terms… a personal attack is a violation of the “terms” in this forum… a case be made that you, or anyone who characterizes a member in such language, might be suspended or banned from this forum… there is a saying, “be sure brain is engaged before placing mouth into motion”…
fourth thing is, your final comment: what is at stake is my soul… that’s hogwash… these discussions are no more about my soul, or anyone else’s, than a christmas fruitcake… mu posts and the “religion” i practice beyond the limits of this forum have no bearing on each other… what this forum is about is discussions of abstract concepts, exchanges of viewpoints and (hopefully) knowing and understanding more about our religion than when we logged in… forget your soul, my soul, everybody’s soul: just speak intelligently about whatever thread you start or participate in, try to be concise, and be respectful of those who contribute, even those so tactless as to risk offending you…

 

[ethelzguy]

Considering scripture, where God told Moses that no man could see the face of God and live(paraphrased, mine), I would suspect that few if any of us could begin to comprehend what Heaven or seeing the face of God could be like.

my .02 :twocents:

 

[East_and_West]

Considering scripture, where God told Moses that no man could see the face of God and live(paraphrased, mine), I would suspect that few if any of us could begin to comprehend what Heaven or seeing the face of God could be like.

my .02 :twocents:

Yup. We would die except for the grace of God. By sanctifiying grace we become like God and, thus, can see him face to face. The scriptures teach that we shall see him as he is and that we shall see him face to face. Its called the Beatific Vision.

 

[hawkeye]

Had a dream about it as a child, it’s …and ?

Years later I read Revelation, it weren’t unlike Revelation…so much light, no shadows in Heaven like earth, a childhood dream alright, but one that never left me.

 

[Walking_Home]

… in heaven, we praise god for who he is, and we thank him for selecting us to join him, and that’s all, period…

when we die, i believe everything we are and know is shed, like a butterfly shedding a cocoon… does a butterfly know or care what his life was like before his metamorphosis, when he was a caterpillar? no way… exiting the cocoon, the butterfly is a unique creature… totally unlike and unknowing his prior existence… i believe our transition from the here and now to the hereafter is much like the transition of the caterpillar entering the cocoon and exiting the cocoon as a wholly new creature, so different in appearance, function and destiny…

what do we bring with us on a trip to our reward? exactly nothing… we carry our soul, period… our soul has no memory of our life here, as there is no need of a recall of who we were, where we lived, etc… this knowledge is “added baggage” because it serves no purpose to possess this recall in heaven… what could compare to sitting at the right hand of god for eternity? graduating from college? falling in love? your favorite pet? winning the lottery? by definition, god is the totality of the universe… god is in everything and everything is derived from god… that our soul is chosen to experience eternity in god’s presence is the sum total of all the universe is, was, or could be… nothing can equal god sharing his kingdom with us, therefore, there is no need of retaining memories of our life on earth as mere mortals…

but, if you prefer to believe that you will retain memories of life here when you’re in the great beyond, that’s fine… if you want to believe that a loving god would not deny you the memories of your good times on earth, that’s fine… but, what are the good times that you want to retain when in heaven? how do you separate the good from the bad? you will have a memory of holding your dog or cat and playing with it-- but what about when the pet was ill, or run over by a car? would you also have that memory? do you want to remember your first child? that’s o.k., but what about when the child was sick? what about when the child cried when attacked by a bully at school, or failing a test or being shunned by a girl or boyfriend? the same things that give you good memories can also give you bad memories… how do you separate what you want from what you don’t? seems like a complex call to make…

what about identity? would we know who we were and would we recognize anyone from our past? no… there is nothing to recall… as for identity, god knows who we are and who we were… his consciousness knows all and is aware of everything… we might be aware of other souls, but here is no exchange between them… there is no need… we are conversing with god, and that covers everything…

does heaven seem boring? it does to us, because we measure the reward in human terms… from the moment we are born, we are experiencing and recording our existence… we store data and retrieve it for use later… subconsciously, we compare our present settings to what we recall from a previous experience… we continually compare what we do, where we are with our memory of what we recall when we were last in a particular location, or circumstance… we walk in the front door at home and we compare what we see right now with what we recall when we were last at home… usually, the present matches the recall and everything’s o.k… the difference in recall comes in if we enter our home and our property is damaged or missing… the recall doesn’t match the present situation, and we might conclude there has been a robbery… we all know sayings like, “if john is watching us from heaven, he would be pleased”… i don’t think so… the souls aren’t watching anyone or anything… why? isn’t heaven supposed to be a happy place? “our heavenly reward”, remember? if our predecessors are in heaven and watching us, what would they see? is earth all that great a place to be? is there so much to be proud of? is watching us in our misery, our tragedies our horrors, a happy show? can any soul enjoy heaven if it knows what burdens we carry down here?

in heaven, there is no comparison with our past life on earth, because the consciousness of our soul isn’t aware of a past; so, there is no recall… only eternity… we are in the presence of god; we praise him for being god and we thank him for offering to share eternity with him…

but, i could be wrong!

---

Are you saying that there is a complete break between those who reside in heaven and us who are still walking the earth. That once a soul reaches heaven — there is no concern for humanity. Do you believe that when we pray for their intercession —they can no longer hear us.

 

[wjp984]

Your version of Heaven sounds more like Budhaism or Hinduism than Catholicism. Seriously, what is the point of being good if we can’t remember our lives? What about the fact that there is a Purgatory? The saints intercede for us and have to remember what their lives were like in order to do so. What is the point of creating us if we die only to be totally reborn in Heaven without any memory? Why not just create us in Heaven and skip the eartly phase? Oh, and if butterflies were an advanced species I wouldn’t be surprised if they do have some memoriy of being a caterpiller. How do you know they do not?

 

[SenorSalsa]

I did a quick Cathechism search, and found these quotes

1024 This perfect life with the Most Holy Trinity - this communion of life and love with the Trinity, with the Virgin Mary, the angels and all the blessed - is called “heaven.” Heaven is the ultimate end and fulfillment of the deepest human longings, the state of supreme, definitive happiness.

1025 To live in heaven is “to be with Christ.” The elect live "in Christ,"600 but they retain, or rather find, their true identity, their own name.

 

[Nickkname]

No eye has seen, nor ear heard, nor mouth proclaimed what heaven will be like. But I imagine it will be far more and better and greater than anything any creature could ever dream or hope for. And I imagine this not because of the benefits and glories which the blessed enjoy in heaven, but because of the Beatific Vision. The Lord, in his Love and Mercy, lets the blessed share in his divine nature and see him as he sees himself. Who can fathom such an awesome beatitude!

 

[dranzal]

While we know that “no eye has seen nor ear heard…” the bible does give us some clues and the catechism also gives some clues.

The catechism has this to say about heaven:

**THE HOPE OF THE NEW HEAVEN AND THE NEW EARTH **

1042 At the end of time, the Kingdom of God will come in its fullness. After the universal judgment, the righteous will reign for ever with Christ, glorified in body and soul. The universe itself will be renewed:
The Church . . . will receive her perfection only in the glory of heaven, when will come the time of the renewal of all things. At that time, together with the human race, the universe itself, which is so closely related to man and which attains its destiny through him, will be perfectly re-established in Christ.631

[1043](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/1043.htm’) Sacred Scripture calls this mysterious renewal, which will transform humanity and the world, "new heavens and a new earth."632 It will be the definitive realization of God’s plan to bring under a single head "all things in [Christ], things in heaven and things on earth."633
1044 In this new universe, the heavenly Jerusalem, God will have his dwelling among men.634 "He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning nor crying nor pain any more, for the former things have passed away."635
[1045](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/1045.htm’) For man, this consummation will be the final realization of the unity of the human race, which God willed from creation and of which the pilgrim Church has been "in the nature of sacrament."636 Those who are united with Christ will form the community of the redeemed, “the holy city” of God, "the Bride, the wife of the Lamb."637 She will not be wounded any longer by sin, stains, self-love, that destroy or wound the earthly community.638 The beatific vision, in which God opens himself in an inexhaustible way to the elect, will be the ever-flowing well-spring of happiness, peace, and mutual communion.
[1046](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/1046.htm’) For the cosmos, Revelation affirms the profound common destiny of the material world and man:
For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God . . . in hope because the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to decay. . . . We know that the whole creation has been groaning in travail together until now; and not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the first fruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.639

1047 The visible universe, then, is itself destined to be transformed, “so that the world itself, restored to its original state, facing no further obstacles, should be at the service of the just,” sharing their glorification in the risen Jesus Christ.640
[1048](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/1048.htm’) "We know neither the moment of the consummation of the earth and of man, nor the way in which the universe will be transformed. The form of this world, distorted by sin, is passing away, and we are taught that God is preparing a new dwelling and a new earth in which righteousness dwells, in which happiness will fill and surpass all the desires of peace arising in the hearts of men."641
[1049](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/1049.htm’) "Far from diminishing our concern to develop this earth, the expectancy of a new earth should spur us on, for it is here that the body of a new human family grows, foreshadowing in some way the age which is to come. That is why, although we must be careful to distinguish earthly progress clearly from the increase of the kingdom of Christ, such progress is of vital concern to the kingdom of God, insofar as it can contribute to the better ordering of human society."642 [1050](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/1050.htm’) "When we have spread on earth the fruits of our nature and our enterprise . . . according to the command of the Lord and in his Spirit, we will find them once again, cleansed this time from the stain of sin, illuminated and transfigured, when Christ presents to his Father an eternal and universal kingdom."643 God will then be “all in all” in eternal life:644

 

[Deacon_Ed_B]

Remoat - From a review of your personal profile, it appears that you have not had a very deep background in your Catholic Education. I say this merely from what you posted in your profile. As a child, this lack of background surely would not be your fault. What I do see and sense is that you have been thinking about things that the Church teaches but have not had the proper guidance to have a sound Catholic background. This again is not your fault, but most definitely can be corrected.

First thing…when we refer to God, note that it is in a capitol G, not a small g. The distinction here is that as Catholics we use God to refer to the one true** G**od and god to false gods used by pagans and idol worshipers.

That said, as Catholics, we are all part of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church. Again, note we use a “C” and not a ‘c’. as there is only one true Church established by Jesus Christ. That is the Catholic Church.

There are three parts to the Church. The Church triumphant (those souls in heaven), the Church militant (those of us who are on earth,) and the Church suffering (those souls in purgatory.) The Church triumphant does not need prayer, as they are in the presence of and dwell in God and see God as he is. They do pray for the Church Militant and the Church suffering. We, the Church militant pray for one another and the Church suffering. The Church suffering cannot pray for themselves, but can and do pray for us, the Church militant. Thus there is a relationship of prayer that exists between all three.

In heaven we will know not only our own identities but intuitively know all others there. The existence we will have in heaven is that we will dwell in God and will See God as he is. This is so far beyond our ability to understand that it is described in scripture this way. “Eye has not seen, ear has not heard, nor has it so much as dawned on the mind of man what God has in store for those who love him” I like that description the best.
Prayers and blessings
Deacon Ed B

 

[remoat]

Are you saying that there is a complete break between those who reside in heaven and us who are still walking the earth. That once a soul reaches heaven — there is no concern for humanity. Do you believe that when we pray for their intercession —they can no longer hear us.

yes and no.. beyond those named in the bible, i doubt anyone would have any clout with god as to our needs and wants.. traditionally, we pray to god, his son and the virgin mary.. the church has sanctioned saints as ostensible intermediaries: st. francis; st. jude; st. anthony; st. michael, etc.. they have been deemed as "patron saints" and "protectors" for those with special needs.. perhaps they carry extra weight in accepting special requests to "petition" god for special favors..

i am not schooled in theology or trained in dealing with peoples' relationships with souls in the hereafter.. im just a guy venting his thoughts in a public forum..  i am not proposing i have the answers to any of these questions, im just asking them and hoping someone will reply with a better explanation than mine..

as to the souls of our friends and family, i propose they are unaware of us.. if heaven is a reward for living our lives according to god's word, what reward is it ascend to heaven and watch the misery of those left behind? would souls continue to be happy, if it is in their capacity, to see us in pain from accidents, disease, discrimination, rejection? why would that be a rewarding aspect of heaven? further, watching day-to-day events unfold down here distractrs souls from their prime objective: praising god for who he is and worshipping him for inviting us to join him in heaven.. anything else is excess baggage.. there is no need for earth-memories.. you're standing next to the almighty, what else is there? would you rather watch your son/daughter re-enact their high school prom? would you rather see the grandson you left behind earn a perfect score on his SATs? if god is all there is and all there could ever be, then doesn't that include all the feelings and wonders you could imagine? those you left behind are continuing to live their temporal lives without you, and they are mostly doing quite well--god set it up that way.. your mssion in the hereafter is to "enjoy" your heavenly graces; you earned them, relax and let it happen..

the reluctance to accept these concepts is understandable, because our christian culture has indoctrinated us to hold otherwise.. thru language, metaphor, example and other means, we have come to embrace a belief that heaven will incorporate many aspects of this earthly domain.. you live what you learn: if your parents told you your granddad has gone to heaven and will be watching out for you, why would you challenge the idea? if you've seen hundreds of magazine and newspaper cartoons since you were old enough to read showing people in heaven with angels wings making jokes about what they see on earth, would you dismiss it when you were a child? popular interpretations of the bible paint a picture of heaven as a place from which we could observe the world, as from a ferris wheel.. michaelangelo paints the creation of man with god as a substantially man-like figure making contact with another man-like figure, who was adam.. basically, god is santa clause in a white robe, and the angels surrounding him are his reindeer..

 

[remoat]

Your version of Heaven sounds more like Budhaism or Hinduism than Catholicism. Seriously, what is the point of being good if we can’t remember our lives? What about the fact that there is a Purgatory? The saints intercede for us and have to remember what their lives were like in order to do so. What is the point of creating us if we die only to be totally reborn in Heaven without any memory? Why not just create us in Heaven and skip the eartly phase? Oh, and if butterflies were an advanced species I wouldn’t be surprised if they do have some memoriy of being a caterpiller. How do you know they do not?

your're mssing the point of dying and proceeding to the hereafter.. the memories we acquire here are meant to be re-lived here, and thats all.. we dont bring them along as carry-on luggage because we are no longer human.. what we were on earth is not what we are in the hereafter.. our memories console us, remind us, reward us, and many times pain us with the events of that life..when we die, that life is over, done with.. there are no memories, because that life is terminated, fini, kaput.. as for the point of not having memories, you cant miss something if you dont recall it.. if your memories are stripped of you upon ascending to heaven you cannot, by definition, have regrets or satisfaction due to those memories.. they are no longer memories, they arent anything.. 

if you want the brutal truth, ascending to heaven and losing your earthly ties is similar to brainwashing.. you are purged of all earthly considerations, aspects, machinations, and cognitive skills.. you are no longer human, you have no human traits-- you have no appearance, no image, no occupation of space.. you are a spirit.. you exist only as a single thought concept.. the thought being a focus on god's presence and his infinite benevolence in summoning you to sit by his side, which is also a misnomer, but it makes it easier to follow thr concept..

 

[remoat]

NOTE: i dont use capital letters because im lazy and they require additonal time to type and correct later… no disrepect, but that’s just the way i am… i pray that god doesn’t reduce my grade for punctuation…

i spent a few years in catholic education, but i was in a military family and we relocated 10-12 times before i left for college… since then, i passed thirty years between deciding to stop attending and starting up again…

 

[Deacon_Ed_B]

Remoat - I can see by your response, you have not really read (or if you did, did not understood) what I posted. That being the case, I will simply refer you to the** “Catechism of the Catholic Church” **which is available at any good Catholic Book store. It has a wealth of information if you care to avail yourself. If you do not, still know that you will remain in my prayers and in the prayers of the Church Triumphant, Church Militant and Church Suffering. Oh yes, and God is still spelled with a capitol G.
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B