What is "Initial Salvation"?

[CSN]

Does this refer to Christ’s sacrifice on the cross wiping away our original sin (Jews and Gentiles alike) ?

How does Christ’s sacrifice on the cross relate to baptism ?

Basic questions, but I just don’t know…

 

[Neil_Anthony]

Here’s something from the Catechism:

1225 In his Passover Christ opened to all men the fountain of Baptism. He had already spoken of his Passion, which he was about to suffer in Jerusalem, as a “Baptism” with which he had to be baptized.[22] The blood and water that flowed from the pierced side of the crucified Jesus are types of Baptism and the Eucharist, the sacraments of new life.[23] From then on, it is possible “to be born of water and the Spirit”[24] in order to enter the Kingdom of God.
See where you are baptized, see where Baptism comes from, if not from the cross of Christ, from his death. There is the whole mystery: he died for you. In him you are redeemed, in him you are saved.[25]

You can read the whole section on baptism here

 

[Nita]

I think “initial salvation” is an expression used to denote when we first receive the life of grace in our souls - when original sin is removed. I don’t know if, or how much, the expression is used in Catholic teaching.

Those who don’t recognize the infusion of grace into souls at Baptism would say that initial salvation occurs when one accepts Jesus as their personal Lord and Savior (or something similar).

 

[catholic1seeks]

**If I can recall, initial salvation is what Scripture speaks of as someone being “saved”. Though there is no assurance of salvation, “saved” is the initial salvation of when santifying grace is first given to the soul, transforming the sinner.

So, Baptism would be considered the initial salvation. From then on, salvation is a process. We may commit mortal sin, and the Sacrament of Reconciliation will then be the “initial salvation”. **

 

[catholic1seeks]

**
So, Baptism would be considered the initial salvation. From then on, salvation is a process. We may commit mortal sin, and the Sacrament of Reconciliation will then be the “initial salvation”. **

OOPS - I made a mistake

The Sacrament of Reconciliation would really be considered re-justification.

The Catholic Church teaches that justification is a process. It begins when we first become Christians - when we first receieve righteousness. This is called* initial justification*. Justification continues in our life. This* progressive justification *occurs as a person grows in righteousness. The process is completed on the last day; this is final justification.

There is the real possibility of a loss of justification and a subsequent re-justification which occurs when a believer returns to the faith – Sacrament of Reconciliation.

 

[moondweller]

OOPS - I made a mistake

The Sacrament of Reconciliation would really be considered re-justification.

The Catholic Church teaches that justification is a process. It begins when we first become Christians - when we first receieve righteousness. This is called* initial justification*. Justification continues in our life. This* progressive justification *occurs as a person grows in righteousness. The process is completed on the last day; this is final justification.

There is the real possibility of a loss of justification and a subsequent re-justification which occurs when a believer returns to the faith – Sacrament of Reconciliation.

Define salvation.

 

[moondweller]

OOPS - I made a mistake

The Sacrament of Reconciliation would really be considered re-justification.

The Catholic Church teaches that justification is a process. It begins when we first become Christians - when we first receieve righteousness. This is called* initial justification*. Justification continues in our life. This* progressive justification *occurs as a person grows in righteousness. The process is completed on the last day; this is final justification.

There is the real possibility of a loss of justification and a subsequent re-justification which occurs when a believer returns to the faith – Sacrament of Reconciliation.

So far, according to what Catholics have written on this forum there’s:

(1) Initial justification
(2) Progressive justification
(3) Final justification
(4) Re - justification

Scripture, however, adds none of these words to justification, but describes it as being fully gifted to the believer at the time of faith in Christ (Rom. 3:24, 26, 30). And it describes it (justification) not as a righteousness based on human works (progressive), but “that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness that comes from God on the basis of FAITH” (Phil. 3:9) No less than Christ’s righteousness (2 Cor. 5:21).

 

[BRB1]

So far, according to what Catholics have written on this forum there’s:

(1) Initial justification
(2) Progressive justification
(3) Final justification
(4) Re - justification

Scripture, however, adds none of these words to justification, but describes it as being fully gifted to the believer at the time of faith in Christ (Rom. 3:24, 26, 30). ).

Sorry, but I don’t find in the Romans verses you cite above the word FULLY. Did M.L also add that, as well as word ALONE to your Bible ?

 

[BRB1]

** From then on, salvation is a process. We may commit mortal sin, and the Sacrament of Reconciliation will then be the “initial salvation”. **

I don’t think you meant ‘initial’ salvation in the last sentence. I see you corrected later on.

 

[BRB1]

Define salvation.

Working Definitions:

One who stands firm in Christ … til the end. /// per Paul.

Perseverance in faithful discipleship … promptly confessing any mortal sin they may commit. /// as taught by Paul.

 

[moondweller]

Sorry, but I don’t find in the Romans verses you cite above the word FULLY. Did M.L also add that, as well as word ALONE to your Bible ?

“Being justified as a GIFT.” It’s in the word “being.” Not partially being, but “being justified as a gift.” A gift based on a “finished” work of Christ, His work of redemption on the cross (Rom. 3:24). Christ’s redemptive work was not a partial work, and it was His work ALONE.

Now you show me “initial,” “progressive,” “final” and “re.”

 

[moondweller]

Working Definitions:

One who stands firm in Christ … til the end. /// per Paul.

Perseverance in faithful discipleship … promptly confessing any mortal sin they may commit. /// as taught by Paul.

I asked for a definition of salvation.

 

[BRB1]

I asked for a definition of salvation.

OK … again we will take definition of Paul. From your favorite Book in NT.

Romans 13:11 “Besides this you know what hour it is, how it is full time now for you to wake from sleep. FOR SALVATION is NEARER to us now than when we FIRST believed.”

---

Paul is not exactly confirming your mistaken concept of FULLY upon your first belief. Paul is making point that time is of the essence. Our relationship with Christ moves thru time, either growing or waning.

Its time to give it up Md. You can’t support those mistaken indoctrinations any more …

He further adds in verse 14: ‘But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provisions for the flesh, to gratify its desires’.

---

So again … as long as one stands firm in Christ, they have sure promise / expectation of SALVATION. But, fall back from discipleship … and salvation is no longer assured.

 

[moondweller]

OK … again we will take definition of Paul. From your favorite Book in NT.

Romans 13:11 “Besides this you know what hour it is, how it is full time now for you to wake from sleep. FOR SALVATION is NEARER to us now than when we FIRST believed.”

---

Paul is not exactly confirming your mistaken concept of FULLY upon your first belief. Paul is making point that time is of the essence. Our relationship with Christ moves thru time, either growing or waning.

Its time to give it up Md. You can’t support those mistaken indoctrinations any more …

He further adds in verse 14: ‘But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provisions for the flesh, to gratify its desires’.

---

So again … as long as one stands firm in Christ, they have sure promise / expectation of SALVATION. But, fall back from discipleship … and salvation is no longer assured.

Ah huh. :yawn:

So… I’ll ask again, BRB:

Define salvation.

 

[BRB1]

Ah huh. :yawn:

So… I’ll ask again, BRB:

Define salvation.

Lets let Peter define it for you. 1st Peter 3–9

… “By his great mercy we have been born anew to a LIVING HOPE through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, and to an INHERITANCE which is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, KEPT IN HEAVEN for you, who by God’s power are guarded through faith for A SALVATION ready to be revealed in the last time…”

So, SALVATION defined is :

a LIVING HOPE of a promised INHERITANCE, KEPT (reserved) in HEAVEN, sustained by our perseverance of FAITH … only to be REVEALED (realized) on your death ----- if you don’t fall away into disbelief.

 

[moondweller]

Lets let Peter define it for you. 1st Peter 3–9

… “By his great mercy we have been born anew to a LIVING HOPE through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, and to an INHERITANCE which is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, KEPT IN HEAVEN for you, who by God’s power are guarded through faith for A SALVATION ready to be revealed in the last time…”

So, SALVATION defined is :

a LIVING HOPE of a promised INHERITANCE, KEPT (reserved) in HEAVEN, sustained by our perseverance of FAITH … only to be REVEALED (realized) on your death ----- if you don’t fall away into disbelief.

OK, so now we know that the true believer can’t lose his salvation since it’s “imperishable,” “unfading,” and “reserved in heaven.” All this, of course, testifies against your doctrine of “work or lose it,” and your erroneous notion that sin can destroy it. Peter attaches no caveat as do you. He’s addressing believers who are already “born again.” Nowhere does Scripture even suggest that one can reverse his spiritual re-birth upon belief in Christ, anymore than one can reverse his physical birth. The spiritual is greater than the physical.

But I’ll ask again for you to:
Define salvation.

 

[BRB1]

OK, so now we know that the true believer can’t lose his salvation since it’s “imperishable,” “unfading,” and “reserved in heaven.” All this, of course, testifies against your doctrine of “work or lose it,” and your erroneous notion that sin can destroy it. ]

.

Well, you didn’t listen carefully to what Peter said.

Salvation is imperishable, and unfading … since it is the Gift of God. Yet, it demands discipleship. Christ called many to accept salvation [which is imperishable / unfading, etc ], provided one “does not grow weary in well-doing”, stays the course, “finishes the race” /// per Paul.

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Lets exanine another Epistle of Paul … since you need to consider the full scriptures of Paul on Good Works, and their evidence to ones Salvation.

Titus 1:16 “They [Cretans] profess to know God, but they deny him by their DEEDS, they are detestable, DISOBEDIENT, UNFIT for any GOOD DEED”.

Titus 2:7 “Show yourself [Titus & the true believers] in all respects a model of GOOD DEEDS, …”

Titus 2:11 “For the grace of God has appeared for the SALVATION of all men, TRAINIING us to renounce irreligion and worldly passions, and to live sober, UPRIGHT and GODLY LIVES in this world, AWAITING our blessed HOPE, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ … who gave himself for us to REDEEM … and to PURIFY … his own who are ZEALOUS for GOOD DEEDS”.

Titus 3:8 … The saying is sure. I desire you to INSIST on these things, so that those who have believed in God may BE CAREFUL to apply themselves to GOOD DEEDS; …

Titus 3:14 And let our people learn to apply themselves to GOOD DEEDS, …

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And you only thought James taught Good Deeds as being essential …

How could you of missed Paul [and Christ / Beatitudes] on the subject ?

[Look particularily at 3:8 … Why was Paul so adamant on insisting the converts be careful and do good works … if it had no bearing on our FINAL Salvation ? ]

Yes, Initial, Ongoing, and Final Salvation [via perseverance & persistent attention to Beatitudes] is taught by Paul.

Now you will no doubt say those Cretans never experienced Initial Salvation … but, Paul teaches otherwise. Because they refused to reform themselves unto Good Works, many lost their salvations //// per Paul.