What is Islamic State?

[Yeoman]

Going back to Father Samir again (whose article is very blunt both as to what’s going on inside the Islamic world and what we in the west are doing to contribute to the crisis ourselves) I noted this item:

Muslims did this in the Middle Ages: Avicenna, for instance, has a philosophical treatise on the so-called pleasures in heaven to explain that it cannot be physical pleasure.

This is only a small point, but Father Samir makes the point of Islamic “liberals” constituting a population of 1M out of overall population of Muslims of 1.5B. I don’t know, of course, what his estimate is based on and if it’s correct in any fashion. His pint is that its difficult for these forces to be heard in the Islamic world, in part because of a lack of education in much of that area, which would indeed impede them from getting distribution of his views. At the same time, he mentions Avicenna in context. Avicenna was an Iranian Islamic scholar who sought to synthesize Islamic thought with classical Greek thought.

I’ve heard it claimed that this Hellenized variant of Islam, which is associated with much progress in the sciences and which preserved much of the classical Greek works, was later regarded as heretical. Is that correct?

 

[Robert_Bay]

At the risk of straying where I should not tread, I wonder if Catholic Answers itself observes this rule?

CA does publish Robert Spencer’s book, and while members can discuss his book (not on this thread where the topic is the Islamic State,) they must do so without using inflammatory rhetoric and do so charitably.

The forum rule stands and it is posted in a sticky at the top of the forum for reference. I do not want to derail the thread. If someone has a question about the rule, please PM me.

Please get back to discussing the Islamic State.

 

[gilliam]

From an online conversation with the Baghdad bureau chief for the New York Times yesterday:

Q. Do you believe that there’s anything in particular about the muslim religion that drives people towards violence? I’m not saying it’s a toxic religion, or that religion can somehow turn people into terrorists, but why do you think it’s more common, nowadays, for terrorists to be somehow affiliated to muslim faiths, and not other religions?

A: TimArango
No. Every religion has its extremists. Nearly every Iraqi I have ever met has been welcoming and hospitable to me, they are appalled by what is happening in their country.

Q: Do you believe that ISIS’s actions are justified and motivated because of their belief in Islam?

A: TimArango
they are a bunch of serial killers and psychopaths marauding around the region. no religion justifies that.

The entire conversation is worth the read
reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/2fu159/im_tim_arango_baghdad_bureau_chief_for_the_new/?sort=old

When the Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia and the Grand Ayatollah in Iran and the Grand Ayatollah in Iraq all speak out against ISIS, you know they are not representative of the majority.

 

[7_Sorrows]

When the Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia and the Grand Ayatollah in Iran and the Grand Ayatollah in Iraq all speak out against ISIS, you know they are not representative of the majority.

Why would they not be representative of the majority?

 

[gilliam]

Here is an interesting piece by Nawaf Obaid that proposes that the Islamic State isn’t even Salafist (what a lot of us call modern Wahabi Islam the type of Islam promoted by Saudi Arabia.)

ISIS follows an ideology that is a continuation of a crude sect known as the Kharijites, or the ones that “deviated” from the Muslim community during the reign of the fourth Caliph Ali (whom they assassinated). The Kharijites believed that whoever disagreed with them should be murdered as infidels (takfir), rationalized mass killings against civilians, including women and children (isti’rad), and practiced an extreme form of inquisition to test their opponent’s faith (imtihan).

These concepts make ISIS’ ideology the absolute opposite of Saudi Salafism. The version of Salafism applied in the kingdom’s courts and religious institutions was formulated by one of the four leading Muslim jurists, the ninth-century scholar Ahmad ibn Hanbal. Hanbali law stands firmly against sedition, shedding of blood, and forcible conversion.

nytimes.com/2014/09/09/opinion/the-saudis-can-crush-isis.html?_r=0

 

[gilliam]

Why would they not be representative of the majority?

The vast majority of Muslim teachers today don’t say to go out and murder people who don’t agree with you.

 

[gilliam]

The entire conversation is worth the read
reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/2fu159/im_tim_arango_baghdad_bureau_chief_for_the_new/?sort=old

A little more:

Q. Can you give us a feel for what the general reaction is to ISIS among average Sunni and Shia Iraqi people? — limbodog

The Shia are horrified. Most Sunnis, too, although initially in places like Mosul, Sunnis were happy to see the Iraqi Army leave. But over time, ISIS is likely to alienate local communities with its harsh rule.

nytimes.com/2014/09/09/world/middleeast/tim-arangoa-iraq-reddit-questions.html

 

[7_Sorrows]

The vast majority of Muslim teachers today don’t say to go out and murder people who don’t agree with you.

But you said all 3 were speaking out against ISIS.