What is it about the Connecticut school shooter that drove him commit such an atrocity?

[ThinkingSapien]

But perhaps the question that should be asked is what is in the psyche of Americans that they refuse to let go of their Guns. Surely this would happen less if gun laws were tougher?

The reasons that some have guns vary from one person to the next. My relatives from my dad’s side have had guns. They used those guns for hunting for food or protecting their animals from other wild beast. Many of my other friends (primarily female) have guns for reasons that I can summarize as “protection.” One (whose sister had been brutally murdered) said that even if she never fires her gun being able to handle one may save her life. Some see guns as a part of their heritage. Some people collect guns for show. And yes, some people acquire guns for crime.

 

[Itsagreatlife]

The kid had all the right (or wrong) conditions eg divorced parents, not accepted by anyone including his dad or brother, guns available, and feelings that his mom was going to send him away. Very threatened and jealous young man. Lived his whole life alone. These are not excuses. He and his parents are responsible.

He lacked acceptance and love. But he needed some professional help as well as a spiritual life. Was that present?

 

[the_phoenix]

Original sin.

Exactly.

 

[AdamP88]

:thumbsup:It is mass pathology masquerading as a “right”. Ultimately, it is an idolatry.

Agreed

 

[Sair]

I wonder where “psychological pain” comes from to begin with-why humans are so prone to it, relatively speaking. It seems to be related to narcissism, to overly sensitive egos, and while I’m sure this is all related to immaturity and/or some way in which a person’s been stunted from developing properly, I tend to think that even the healthiest minded of us are subject to being overly sensitive/protective of the self. Anyway, makes me wonder why.

Much as there are always manifold factors involved in incidents such as this one, the one thing that most perpetrators seem to have in common is that they are described as ‘loners’. Humans are social animals; we need to connect with others, and for people who either have not learned or lack the capacity to operate successfully in social terms, to establish friendships and supportive social networks, psychological pain is often the result. It’s not so much a matter of ego - although feeling rejected by one’s fellows can be a blow even to the strongest self-confidence - as our innate need for acceptance. People who don’t or can’t fit in with others are less likely to form the kinds of bonds that nurture our empathy, so it’s easier for them to undertake indiscriminate killing. That is just my hypothesis, anyway.

 

[kingpomba]

From a psychological perspective I would say low morale in a demanding, secular world.

Or you know, a genuine mental illness…

The same kind that have existed as long as humanity as existed and have a genuine biological basis.

 

[kingpomba]

From a psychological perspective I would say low morale in a demanding, secular world.

I have a wild theory, perhaps it was just a genuine mental illness…

The same kind that have existed as long as humanity as existed and have a genuine biological basis.

Easy access to assault rifles probably didn’t help either.

Think of the person who shot up that theater some months back. Something holmes i believe it was. He was a neuroscience student. He sought counseling (or so a news article a few days ago told). He was surrounded by other neuroscience and psychology professors and students. He was in a university culture where its much more acceptable and welcoming to seek help. Most universities have extensive counseling services and yet, he omitted a mass killing anyway.

Food for thought i 'spose.

 

[miguel]

“what that drove him commit such an atrocity?”

It’s difficult (impossible) to say, but I sincerely believe it is partly a failure of society. Perhaps those who were close to the shooter (parents, teachers, friends, clergy) and the rest of the community in general failed see the evil devouring him and did not do anything about it.

The tragedy is a sad reflection of society’s loss of dignity and sancity for life. Thousands (tens of thousands) die everyday through murder (via guns, abortions, genocide, euthanasia…) and it continues.

The bottom line - this tragedy is proof of the wickedness and snares of the devil. Let us pray…

Saint Michael the Archangel,
defend us in battle.
Be our protection against the wickedness and snares of the devil.
May God rebuke him, we humbly pray;
and do Thou, O Prince of the Heavenly Host -
by the Divine Power of God -
cast into hell, satan and all the evil spirits,
who roam throughout the world seeking the ruin of souls.

Amen.

I think there are likely many factors. We don’t know exactly what goes on in a person’s head. I watched a Clint Eastwood film over the weekend…High Plains Drifter. I’ve seen it many times. But in light of recent events, this time it had more of an impact. It’s about a town, Lago, where everyone lives in fear because this town tolerates murder. The end of the film shows Clint riding off into the distance finally disappearing into the mirage, suggesting his character was the ghost of a man who had been horsewhipped to death by some of Lago’s upstanding citizens, and had come back from an unmarked grave to get justice. One of his lines “It’s what folks know about themselves inside that makes them afraid.” At one point, he had them all paint the town red, while he changed its name from Lago to HELL. It was released in 1973, shortly after the Roe v Wade decision put this whole country on a similar path as the town of Lago.

 

[ThinkingSapien]

:thumbsup:It is mass pathology masquerading as a “right”. Ultimately, it is an idolatry.

Out of curiosity which of the motivations/causes of idolatry would be applicable specifically to this situation?

 

[Qoeleth]

We tend to take a psychological approach to the question (and often a psycho-pathological approach), assuming, “He must be ill”. In reality, however, I suggest it is a philosophical question, rather than a psychological one.

Suicide, and suicidal murder, seems to be a response to the essentially philosophical question of the suffering and purpose of life.

 

[fhansen]

We tend to take a psychological approach to the question (and often a psycho-pathological approach), assuming, “He must be ill”. In reality, however, I suggest it is a philosophical question, rather than a psychological one.

Suicide, and suicidal murder, seems to be a response to the essentially philosophical question of the suffering and purpose of life.

Why/how would anyone arrive at the conclusion that murder is some kind of answer to the “philosophical question of the suffering and purpose of life.”

 

[Giants]

Why/how would anyone arrive at the conclusion that murder is some kind of answer to the “philosophical question of the suffering and purpose of life.”

If they had a psychological problem. It is the psychological element that leads someone to ponder questions of suffering, meaning, and purpose, and choose one of several different responses to those quandaries.

 

[babygirlmock]

Perhaps none of these things, perhaps he was a sociopath who enjoyed watching kids die…we’ll never know.

But perhaps the question that should be asked is what is in the psyche of Americans that they refuse to let go of their Guns. Surely this would happen less if gun laws were tougher?

YOU ACTUALLY THINK THAT CRIMINALS WILL OBEY GUN CONTROL LAWS???
ARE YOU NUTS OR JUST LIVING IN A BUBBLE???

 

[AlienAngel]

I’m sorry, but I have to disagree with some of the postings here. I have suffered from bi-polar disorder for many years with severe depression (suicidal thoughts) & have NEVER considered hurting another human life. My friend has aspergers & though it’s true he has trouble socializing with people. He’s not dangerous.
Has it occurred to anyone that this may very will be a case of partial or full demonic possession? Exorcisms are real, the devil & the fallen angels are real. And possessions do happen!
Questions the media should be asking is if the shooter was surrounded by anything spiritually positive? Holy water? Crosses? Crucifixes? The Word? The Sacraments?

 

[Robert_Sock]

I’m sorry, but I have to disagree with some of the postings here. I have suffered from bi-polar disorder for many years with severe depression (suicidal thoughts) & have NEVER considered hurting another human life. My friend has aspergers & though it’s true he has trouble socializing with people. He’s not dangerous.
Has it occurred to anyone that this may very will be a case of partial or full demonic possession? Exorcisms are real, the devil & the fallen angels are real. And possessions do happen!
Questions the media should be asking is if the shooter was surrounded by anything spiritually positive? Holy water? Crosses? Crucifixes? The Word? The Sacraments?

In all due respect, I think you need to get real. We’re talking the secular world here.

 

[AlienAngel]

Get Real??? You don’t know the day or the hour!!! Jesus promised that He will Return! Don’t be a coward. Write your local media. Talk about prayer. Talk about exorcisms. Shame on you Robert Sock

 

[kingpomba]

**I’m sorry, but I have to disagree with some of the postings here. I have suffered from bi-polar disorder for many years with severe depression (suicidal thoughts) & have NEVER considered hurting another human life. My friend has aspergers & though it’s true he has trouble socializing with people. He’s not dangerous. **

The only cats i’ve seen are white, therefore, all cats must be white.

See the problem with that kind of logical formula?

Whilst it’s good you and your friend has no issues, it doesn’t mean everyone else doesn’t.

Furthermore, Bipolar disorder and Aspergers aren’t the only psychological disorders out there. I have books as thick of planks of wood full of these diseases. It’s quite clear it’s not that simple.

He could of been delusional. He could of been a very angry, hurt human being. The virginia tech shooter actually thought near the end he was a Saviour for the poor, downtrodden and bullied. He thought he was doing something good and to not do it would be to do something bad (hows that for reasoning).

I know its the nice choice to deny we at all have a dark side but it’s simply not true.

He need not be insane either. Mentally healthy people can hurt and murder other people too.

It’s quite clear there’s a biological basis for mental health disorders and they do exist. I don’t know how you can chalk this up to possession or mental health diseases not existing having suffered them yourself.

 

[Qoeleth]

If they had a psychological problem. It is the psychological element that leads someone to ponder questions of suffering, meaning, and purpose, and choose one of several different responses to those quandaries.

I believe it is wrong to separate psychology and philosophy (of which religion is, for many people, a component). The issues are related- someone is depressed, or takes drugs, or commits a murder, or has a casual sexual relationship. Why? The answers stems from metaphysics (their understanding of what is ‘really real’), axiology (their values), even the relationship of the physical to the formal, philosophical anthropology and conception of human teleology.

Take, for example, the Norway shooter. Completely ‘sane’, but with different values, a different interpretation of history, and a different philosophical conception of the ego relationship to society. These are philosophical issues, not psychological or medical ones.

 

[Qoeleth]

Why/how would anyone arrive at the conclusion that murder is some kind of answer to the “philosophical question of the suffering and purpose of life.”

Well, imagine this- a person’s life is filled with suffering and he has been victimized by the community. His possible responses could be:

1. just put up with it,
2. keep trying to make things better by adapting himself to social expectation, maybe get a menial job
3. try to find something which alleviates his suffering (religion, computer games, drugs)
4. suicide
5. mass murder/suicide

The decision of which option to choose appears to be substantially a philosophical question (although no doubt influenced by psychological propensities). Most people, perhaps, would choose Options 2 or 3. A fair number choose Option 4. A very small percentage choose Option 5.

 

[Giants]

I believe it is wrong to separate psychology and philosophy (of which religion is, for many people, a component). The issues are related- someone is depressed, or takes drugs, or commits a murder, or has a casual sexual relationship. Why? The answers stems from metaphysics (their understanding of what is ‘really real’), axiology (their values), even the relationship of the physical to the formal, philosophical anthropology and conception of human teleology.

Take, for example, the Norway shooter. Completely ‘sane’, but with different values, a different interpretation of history, and a different philosophical conception of the ego relationship to society. These are philosophical issues, not psychological or medical ones.

Anders Breivik may have been a lot of things, but I wouldn’t put ‘sane’ near the top of my list. Not if being diagnosed with anti-social personality disorder and narcissistic personality disorder count for anything.

As for his different values, it only prompts the question: Even if you believe in free will (and I don’t), what’s more likely - that his values warped his psychology, or his psychology ultimately informed his values?