What is it like to be religious in Europe?

[mariahloves]

Europe seems to have a pretty high Atheist/Agnostic population.

According to adherents.com, 88% of people from East Germany, 65% Sweden, 61% Denmark, 51% Norway, 57% Czech Republic, 44% Finland, 48% France, 49% Estonia, 36% Russia, 36% Hungary, 42% Belgium, 37% Bulgaria, and 36% Slovenia are Atheist, Agnostic, or do have a belief in God. There were some other European countries but they had more like 20% Atheists/Agnostic population. I’m focusing on Europe because they have freedom of religion perhaps certain Asian or Communist countries (i.e Cuba, North Korea) do not have, religious people there have to be underground and wouldn’t admit their belief in God so I suspect the European stats are accurate.

Anyway, I was wondering for any Christians, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, Pagans, Deists, Jews, etc. out there living in Europe or have lived there, what’s it like? I can’t imagine living in East Germany where only 12% of the population share belief in God. Also I understand for instance in Sweden, abortion is legal and there is no debate on it’s legality or morality, is it like that in other places in Europe as well?

 

[mjs1987]

The reason is because people are taken care of from cradle to the grave by the govt. They look to the government to do everything for them. The govt has delivered for them for many years. In Russia and the former Soviet Union including East Germany, communism instilled atheism into the people for almost 30-60 years. Russia and the former Soviet Union have actually seen a huge rise in religious attendance post fall of the communists. Atheism in Europe is both due to the huge amount of trust given to the government as well as the large communist and socialist movements as well as far right parties.

Abortion is actually restricted in just about every European countries in some way. The actually morality of allowing abortions is not discussed usually except in Spain, Portugal and Britain. Marriage is almost non existent. The majority of kids in Scandinavian countries are born out of wedlock. Domestic partnerships replace marriage. The morals regarding girlfriend/boyfriend relationships is actually similar to marriages except it is easier to break up and some relationships are open sexually.

 

[LongJohnSilver]

The reason is because people are taken care of from cradle to the grave by the govt. They look to the government to do everything for them. The govt has delivered for them for many years.

I agree with most of what you are saying (although you exaggerate here and there), but how exactly is this related to higher numbers of atheists?

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

What is it like to be religious in Europe? I’m sure VERY LONELY. It’s a very secularized, socialist continent for the most part. They’ve had a relaxed morality for hundreds of years in many parts, haven’t had a sense of religion in years, and they put their faith, as another poster stated, more in government as a solution to solve most of their problems. They’re very much into humanism, if it feels good do it, and they tend to be libertine in many issues. Drinking for the underage, free sex, nudity, mistresses, and even pedophilia in some parts are all not a big deal to Euros. I thank God my ancestors, though they were Calvinist hard-cores, came to Massachusetts on the Mayflower and left Europe. When I hear left wing liberal Democrats talk up how we need to be like Europe, my big obvious question is…why? Didn’t we leave it for a reason?

I know Pope Benedict stated right off the bat in his pontificate that he wanted to re-Christianize Europe. So far I’ve seen little of that. And this Irish pedophile cover-up isn’t going to help any. I wish him luck, though!! Anything is possible with the Lord.

 

[Kaninchen]

Anyway, I was wondering for any Christians, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, Pagans, Deists, Jews, etc. out there living in Europe or have lived there, what’s it like? I can’t imagine living in East Germany where only 12% of the population share belief in God. Also I understand for instance in Sweden, abortion is legal and there is no debate on it’s legality or morality, is it like that in other places in Europe as well?

It seems quite normal because it’s what we’re used to, when we lived in the US the religiosity of American society really strange.

If you were to be looking for an explanation, I’d suggest that it’s mostly the result of the European experience in the last century, particularly the huge destructive event of the Second World War. The century saw the rise and collapse of certainties, whether they were traditional or ‘modern’ sets of ideals/answers (like fascism and communism).

 

[CatholicGuy22]

Atheism isn’t the only thing going on there. Islam is getting bigger as we speak. It is spreading like wildfire. Muammar gaddafi said " We(Islam) will take over the world but not with weapons but thru the womb".

 

[PA650]

What is it like to be religious in Europe? I’m sure VERY LONELY. It’s a very secularized, socialist continent for the most part. They’ve had a relaxed morality for hundreds of years in many parts, haven’t had a sense of religion in years, and they put their faith, as another poster stated, more in government as a solution to solve most of their problems. They’re very much into humanism, if it feels good do it, and they tend to be libertine in many issues. Drinking for the underage, free sex, nudity, mistresses, and even pedophilia in some parts are all not a big deal to Euros. I thank God my ancestors, though they were Calvinist hard-cores, came to Massachusetts on the Mayflower and left Europe. When I hear left wing liberal Democrats talk up how we need to be like Europe, my big obvious question is…why? Didn’t we leave it for a reason?

I know Pope Benedict stated right off the bat in his pontificate that he wanted to re-Christianize Europe. So far I’ve seen little of that. And this Irish pedophile cover-up isn’t going to help any. I wish him luck, though!! Anything is possible with the Lord.

Quite true. Although, a practicing Catholic shouldn’t be lonely at least in Poland. Hopefully, it doesn’t join the ranks of other secular countries in the future.

 

[LongJohnSilver]

What is it like to be religious in Europe? I’m sure VERY LONELY. It’s a very secularized, socialist continent for the most part. They’ve had a relaxed morality for hundreds of years in many parts, haven’t had a sense of religion in years, and they put their faith, as another poster stated, more in government as a solution to solve most of their problems. They’re very much into humanism, if it feels good do it, and they tend to be libertine in many issues. Drinking for the underage, free sex, nudity, mistresses, and even pedophilia in some parts are all not a big deal to Euros. I thank God my ancestors, though they were Calvinist hard-cores, came to Massachusetts on the Mayflower and left Europe. When I hear left wing liberal Democrats talk up how we need to be like Europe, my big obvious question is…why? Didn’t we leave it for a reason?

I know Pope Benedict stated right off the bat in his pontificate that he wanted to re-Christianize Europe. So far I’ve seen little of that. And this Irish pedophile cover-up isn’t going to help any. I wish him luck, though!! Anything is possible with the Lord.

I really dislike the tone of your post. There is really no need to color your opinion with this sort of American chauvinist anti-European talk. Yes, there are a lot of bad things going on here. But I spend some time in the US and though politics and legislation in Europe are far more anti-Christian than in the US, moral life in the US isn’t much better than it is here.

In general:
Two people in this thread linked the socialist welfare state to higher rates of atheïsm. Where exactly lies that relation?

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Why shiver me timbers, I didn’t mean to offend ye Long John. A little pirate humor.

Look, I suppose I am something of a chauvinist when it comes to my country. Sorry about that. Guilty. I don’t believe Europeans (you don’t specify where in Europe you’re from by the way. That’s a bit odd to me?) are inferior to Americans per se or that they are barbarians and we high and mighty. I simply think the United States, up until now, have had a superior form of government by the people, for the people, and based more on a Judeo-Christian model than Europe. Thanks to Obama, Valerie Jerritt, Biden, and the crew we are treading into the socialist blather of some European countries. You cannot deny that much of Europe is now running on a socialized model of governance, can you? Look at England, France, Germany, Spain, the Nordic countries, etc. They have socialized systems, extremely high taxes as a result, and the people buy into this stuff lock, stock, and barrell. The more buy-in one has toward his government, along with that buy-in usually comes a certain amount of agnosticism. Socialism has that effect. Is it any coincidence that Russia, China, Cuba, Vietnam, and all the other full-on communist countries experienced intense amounts of atheism and that Europe, as soon as she went down a not full-blown communist but softcore socialist system that religion has taken a backseat to the idea that science can solve all our answers all the time and that the government can solve what science cannot?

You’re probably right that some life here is no better than in Europe. Sounds reasonable. My wife is from the Philippines. They have no abortion there—it’s illegal. I think it’s awesome that it’s still illegal there! Here the GOP has tried to make it tougher with the Hyde Amendment and some legislation requiring parent consent, banning abortion providing to foreign countries, etc. But since Obama and the Left are holding the reigns, look for all that to loosen up. In the United States religious liberty is indeed in jeopardy. The consciences of health care workers are being manipulated against life, the gay agenda is marching onward (Europe beat us there in spades, right?), fetal stem cell reserach is ‘progressing,’ and we’re inching toward socialized medicine, etc. Our divorce rates are always growing, our ‘trial marriage’ mentality is now rampant, free sex abounds, and morality is declining. So, trust me, we’re almost where you guys are. Europe just jumped off the moral cliff before we did. Now we’re gaining stride.

In my wife’s home country, the Philippines, they have people living together out of wedlock everywhere, I mean everywhere. There is a massive acceptance of gay rights that shocks my wife, and the Church is losing power there, make no mistake. So, my belief is that most of the Earth is engulfed in a Sauron-style (sorry for the Lord of the Rings reference, a great European that Tolkien, big fan! :thumbsup sinful terror. Americans are not better than Euros, they were just wise to make a better form of government, a great experiment. The people, sure, are awesome. I love this country. But we’re heading toward the same sins of Europe, just slower. I mean no ill will toward you, a brother in Christ. Maybe I’m still in Olympic mode! <we did kick some butt! wish we could’ve gone all the way in hockey!> God bless you…

I really dislike the tone of your post. There is really no need to color your opinion with this sort of American chauvinist anti-European talk. Yes, there are a lot of bad things going on here. But I spend some time in the US and though politics and legislation in Europe are far more anti-Christian than in the US, moral life in the US isn’t much better than it is here.

In general:
Two people in this thread linked the socialist welfare state to higher rates of atheïsm. Where exactly lies that relation?

 

[dzheremi]

There is an awful lot of the old “I know what it’s like in Europe even though I don’t live there” style of argument (?) going on here. This seems perennially popular around these parts, and it’s quite embarrassing to see. If you do not live somewhere, how can you know what it is like? Even if you’ve visited for vacation or have relatives somewhere, that can’t substitute for actually living somewhere. I also have relatives in Europe (Slovakia; 13% “no religion” as of the 2001 census, according to the CIA World Factbook), but wouldn’t even pretend to know what it is like over there beyond what my uncle has personally told me (and even then, he’s an American who moved there after he retired from teaching in the USA about 15 years ago, so his perspective is colored by that experience). How some people seem to have no trouble pontificating about people and places they don’t live, especially when the OP didn’t at all ask for that, is just baffling. Maybe this thread should be retitled “What it is like to being needlessly rude to an entire continent based on nothing more than off-base, outmoded models of thinking held over from the cold war era”?

 

[mariahloves]

I personally think it’s difficult to be religious even in a country like America where the majority of people claim to be Christian, which is why I started wonder how much worse could it be in Europe where the majority of people are Atheist/Agnostic.

I think that Communism has a lot to do with it, because one of the basic elements of Communism is rejection of religion and acceptance of non-theism. I know some people like to say that because Europe is oh so advanced and everyone there is hip, modern, and intelligent–that’s why they’re Atheists but I don’t buy it. Atheist doesn’t equal intelligence.

 

[ralphinal]

It seems quite normal because it’s what we’re used to, when we lived in the US the religiosity of American society really strange.

If you were to be looking for an explanation, I’d suggest that it’s mostly the result of the European experience in the last century, particularly the huge destructive event of the Second World War. The century saw the rise and collapse of certainties, whether they were traditional or ‘modern’ sets of ideals/answers (like fascism and communism).

I had a history professor in college (who was from England) who said it this way: Europe suffered through the 20th century horrors and said no god would allow this. America fought the same wars from afar and said only God could put us here to save the world.

 

[TriuneUnity]

I had a history professor in college (who was from England) who said it this way: Europe suffered through the 20th century horrors and said no god would allow this. America fought the same wars from afar and said only God could put us here to save the world.

Amen to that, brother.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Yeah, you have to just hate those pontificating scum who know not of what they speak! …they’re a pain in the tuckus aren’t they!?

There is an awful lot of the old “I know what it’s like in Europe even though I don’t live there” style of argument (?) going on here. This seems perennially popular around these parts, and it’s quite embarrassing to see. If you do not live somewhere, how can you know what it is like? Even if you’ve visited for vacation or have relatives somewhere, that can’t substitute for actually living somewhere. I also have relatives in Europe (Slovakia; 13% “no religion” as of the 2001 census, according to the CIA World Factbook), but wouldn’t even pretend to know what it is like over there beyond what my uncle has personally told me (and even then, he’s an American who moved there after he retired from teaching in the USA about 15 years ago, so his perspective is colored by that experience). How some people seem to have no trouble pontificating about people and places they don’t live, especially when the OP didn’t at all ask for that, is just baffling. Maybe this thread should be retitled “What it is like to being needlessly rude to an entire continent based on nothing more than off-base, outmoded models of thinking held over from the cold war era”?

 

[Kaninchen]

I had a history professor in college (who was from England) who said it this way: Europe suffered through the 20th century horrors and said no god would allow this. America fought the same wars from afar and said only God could put us here to save the world.

Manifestly destined to do so!

 

[Kaninchen]

There is an awful lot of the old “I know what it’s like in Europe even though I don’t live there” style of argument (?) going on here.

I’ve sometimes suspected that it’s some kind of conditioned behaviour picked up in American Conservative School:

Poster 1: Europe.
Poster 2: Socialism, Muslims.

It goes along with

Poster 1: Muslims.
Poster 2: Naughty, naughty, naughty Muslims.

You can have thousand post threads made up of different variations of the Poster 2 responses.

 

[LongJohnSilver]

Why shiver me timbers, I didn’t mean to offend ye Long John. A little pirate humor.

It just didn’t seem like you were joking in your post.

(you don’t specify where in Europe you’re from by the way. That’s a bit odd to me?)

The Netherlands to be precise.

I simply think the United States, up until now, have had a superior form of government by the people, for the people, and based more on a Judeo-Christian model than Europe.

Don’t forget that this form of government developed out of a very long *European *tradition.

Thanks to Obama, Valerie Jerritt, Biden, and the crew we are treading into the socialist blather of some European countries. You cannot deny that much of Europe is now running on a socialized model of governance, can you?

What reason would I have to deny that?

Look at England, France, Germany, Spain, the Nordic countries, etc. They have socialized systems, extremely high taxes as a result, and the people buy into this stuff lock, stock, and barrell. The more buy-in one has toward his government, along with that buy-in usually comes a certain amount of agnosticism. Socialism has that effect. Is it any coincidence that Russia, China, Cuba, Vietnam, and all the other full-on communist countries experienced intense amounts of atheism and that Europe, as soon as she went down a not full-blown communist but softcore socialist system that religion has taken a backseat to the idea that science can solve all our answers all the time and that the government can solve what science cannot?

You still haven’t clearified what exactly is the relation between socialist governments and higher grades of atheism in socialist governed countries. Yes, extreme socialism is extreme anti-religious, but the social welfare state is in essence not anti-religious or anti-christian. There are other reasons to consider why northern-European countries are very secularized, such as the tradition of radical Enlightenment and the many radical revolts in Europe, and of course the World Wars that were fought in our countries.
Stating that softcore socialism automatically leads to atheism sounds a bit like American Republican rhetorics.

I mean no ill will toward you, a brother in Christ. God bless you…

And may God bless you.

 

[Mr_Skeptic]

BTW - Muslims are theists. They believe god exists.

(Just thought I’d clear that up for those inclined to lump atheists in with Muslims.)

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

**I wasn’t joking in my original post, not at all. I simply joked about your fast food pirate screen name in this last post. I absolutely believe European socialism is a dangerous concept, I pray the United States never adopts it to this level (although we’re on the road to it thanks to Obama), and I think it’s a tragedy how Europe is so irreligious. And I also agreed that perhaps I am a chauvanist (nice to see someone out there remembers the original definition of chauvanist, excessive pride and bragging about one’s nation)… **

It just didn’t seem like you were joking in your post.

Yes.
The Netherlands to be precise.

Yes, and those developed from Greek and Roman models as well…it’s a steady evolution. But we were wise enough to omit the silly concept of monarchies and put a constitution into our governance rather than the UK model. Although in our current form we’re so in love with the cult of personality with Obama that I daresay we’ve elevated them to royals in a sense…Of course we inherited the great traditions of Europe. That’s undeniable. I’m quite proud of my English, German, and Irish blood and my forefathers that lived in Europe.
Don’t forget that this form of government developed out of a very long *European *tradition.

Couldn’t tell ya.
What reason would I have to deny that?

Heavily-socialized states bring a sense of dependence upon government, as I and another poster clearly stated. Also, if you notice, religious expression is often curtailed or chided in these systems. It is happening here in the States…don’t have a statue of the Ten Commandments at the courthouse as it might offend our Jewish, Muslim, and atheist compatriots. Socialism makes government a pseudo-religion, like the global warming alarmists have done to the environment–make it a religion. There are people who think far more about composting, using funky lightbulbs, driving a Prius, recycling, and “going green” than they do pious acts of devotion to Christ. It’s easy to make the government one’s religion. Socialism also makes abortion far more accessible and ideas of reproduction that are touted by the government are usually un-Christian. Homosexual marriage is usually embraced in ‘most’ socialized systems, that is also contrary to Christ. In fact, we know from Scripture that the world is opposed to Christ. The world hated Him before it hated us, correct? The socialization of a country only expands the secular realm over the religious in affecting one’s thinking. Socialization looks at the world through more utilitarian lenses than religious ones. Can you actually make the case that socialized countries ENCOURAGE, bolster, or even work cooperatively with religion? President Bush encouraged faith-based initiatives, that Obama is wisely co-opting (along with Iraq, Afghanistan, Guantanamo, etc.) that encourage the government to work with religious bodies to help the individual poor, disaster relief, etc. Socialism never employs religion, it encroaches upon it. Socialism in its very nature wants to thrive, survive, and control and religion is always a threat to this control. Religion criticizes, analyzes, and informs men’s hearts. This is not welcome from a socialist mentality. I fail to see your connection between world wars and socialism in Europe? The Enlightenment I’ll buy to some degree. I also think much of it is cultural. But I think it’s mostly socialism. We know Europe is largely very very anti-semitic, that plays a role as well. And I find it fascinating that you quickly ascribe any socialism-atheism parallel analysis to instantly be Republican “rhetoric.” I am a moderate Republican and don’t see it as an insult. You guys can keep your socialism, at least the Republicans are trying to kill it in my kneck of the woods. I for one, though no Sarah Palin fan and not a tea-party guy, support them in that cause.
You still haven’t clearified what exactly is the relation between socialist governments and higher grades of atheism in socialist governed countries. Yes, extreme socialism is extreme anti-religious, but the social welfare state is in essence not anti-religious or anti-christian. There are other reasons to consider why northern-European countries are very secularized, such as the tradition of radical Enlightenment and the many radical revolts in Europe, and of course the World Wars that were fought in our countries.
Stating that softcore socialism automatically leads to atheism sounds a bit like American Republican rhetorics.

And may God bless you.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Fascinating how conservatism is “conditioned” brain-washing in the American equivalent of a madrasa but being an ‘enlightened’ socialist government-is-the-only-solution lacky is wise, well-thought-out, and by no means conditioned…hmmmm

I’ve sometimes suspected that it’s some kind of conditioned behaviour picked up in American Conservative School:

Poster 1: Europe.
Poster 2: Socialism, Muslims.

It goes along with

Poster 1: Muslims.
Poster 2: Naughty, naughty, naughty Muslims.

You can have thousand post threads made up of different variations of the Poster 2 responses.