What is it like to be religious in Europe?

[JaneGrey]

I have to admit to being more spiritual than religious (i.e. not an atheist as I believe in God and Jesus but having what seems to be a permanent crisis in faith) however I did used to be quite religious and most of my family are still devout Catholics. I didnt and they do not, seem to find it difficult to be religious here.
There are those who think all Christians are bigoted extremists but they usually always have an open mind and so are easily corrected. To echo what many others have said here, the majority of people do not care who others worship, as long as it is not thrown in their face and they are not told that they are doomed to hell for their secular ways. Such behaviour is deemed irrational, by Christians and non-believers alike. It can be intimidating if one desires to wear their beliefs on their sleeve, but I expect it is similar in the more secular parts of America as well. One thing I have found here is that those who are quietly religious seem strong in their faith as it is obvious that they have chosen it completely out of their own free will, rather than being dragged along with societal customs (not to say that religious Americans are only so because it is their culture)

God bless

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Hi Jane

I’ve been hearing that “I’m not religious, I’m spiritual” statement for years and have never figured out what a person is thinking coming from that vantage point. The opposite of organized religion is disorganized religion, something that Christ obviously didn’t institute in the NT. If you are in a crisis of faith (many of us have been, trust me!) have you sought out a priest, bishop, spiritual father or guide, literature, the Church, etc. to try and make sense of your thoughts, confusion, crisis of the spirit or issues against organized religion? I didn’t become a practicing Catholic until I was 20 years old. And I’ve had my moments of questioning organized religion. I was always wrong on all counts.

I think it’s important also to look not only at the Christians who wear their faith on their sleeves (there are plenty of those) but also at the secularists who do the reverse: wearing their lack of faith in religion and their sometimes fanatical devotion to the secular religion of global warming, socialization of all parts of our culture, legalizing marijuana, free sex, don’t judge me-I don’t judge you I’m ok-you’re ok pseudo religion, etc. I don’t appreciate the Hollywood USA mantra of the gay agenda being rammed down my throat on tv series, movies, and all media. I don’t like being told that pre-marital sex is not only inevitable but something to be lauded. I hear that in every area of the secular religion. I’m tired of being told homosexuality is normal, abortion not only a necessary evil but a useful tool for women’s rights. I’m sick of the vanity, the self-absorbed me me me culture, the utilitarianism, the little regard for human life, and the morally relative cubicles we place ourselves in. These things are preached at Christians around the clock so when a few of our side wear their faith on their sleeves, I’m pretty tolerant after hearing the brainwashing of the Left and the Hollywood cult.

I think the opposite of organized religion is chaos, pure and simple. God did not intend for us to live in ‘spiritual’ (whatever that means) cubicles of our own personal making shaping God as we see fit to suit our needs, bringing Him down from heaven rather than exaulting him. Religion is supposed to challenge us, shape us, make us feel uncomfortable, and take us to new places, not rubber stamp our status quo spirituality. Most of the time the ‘spiritual but not religious’ people I know conceive of a more deist, ‘there’s something out there I think’ and they’re romantics about myths and songs and romance itself and the idea of soul mates and love, etc. But they don’t have any theology, no firm moral stance, no sacramental devotion, and nothing challenging them outside of themselves. God means for us to live as a spiritual family on earth, together, in a tangiable relationship, not in cubicles. We are meant to worship together on Sunday, together, praying as one, worshipping the same God who has revealed Himself to us. We are meant to know the truth. Pontius Pilate didn’t know the Truth when it was standing right in front of him—Jesus. How does God expect us to see the truth? Without the Church, without dogma and theology, catechesis and tradition, bishops, order and a visible Church there is no solid truth–just pliable playdough truth, kernels of truth mixed with lies and our own prejudices…

I have to admit to being more spiritual than religious (i.e. not an atheist as I believe in God and Jesus but having what seems to be a permanent crisis in faith) however I did used to be quite religious and most of my family are still devout Catholics. I didnt and they do not, seem to find it difficult to be religious here.
There are those who think all Christians are bigoted extremists but they usually always have an open mind and so are easily corrected. To echo what many others have said here, the majority of people do not care who others worship, as long as it is not thrown in their face and they are not told that they are doomed to hell for their secular ways. Such behaviour is deemed irrational, by Christians and non-believers alike. It can be intimidating if one desires to wear their beliefs on their sleeve, but I expect it is similar in the more secular parts of America as well. One thing I have found here is that those who are quietly religious seem strong in their faith as it is obvious that they have chosen it completely out of their own free will, rather than being dragged along with societal customs (not to say that religious Americans are only so because it is their culture)

God bless

 

[JaneGrey]

Hi Jane

I’ve been hearing that “I’m not religious, I’m spiritual” statement for years and have never figured out what a person is thinking coming from that vantage point.

 

[ethiopianheart]

Me and my mother are Catholic, we live in Europe and we really want to move to America.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Hi Jane,

I appreciate your kind words and openness; it would’ve been easy for you to think I’m looking down on you or judging you or playing holier-than-thou. I’m glad you knew I simply care about you and wish you the best, which I do . I hope you will find God’s peace and love wherever you end up. May His light be upon you this Lent

Gurney

gurneyhalleck1;6480513:

Hi Jane

Hello,
Fair enough however that is not what this thread is about. I stated my stand on things for the sole reason of not misleading others on this thread into thinking that my viewpoint is necessarily a Catholic one. Iam no hypocrite.

A pagan or Buddhist can easily tell me otherwise. A muslim might equally easily tell me that ‘we are meant’’ to worship alone five times a day and together on Fridays. Iam sure that if I ever become a fully fledged Catholic again it will be due to my many good experiences with the Church and the faith and the love of my Catholic family and friends. I appreciate your concern though.

Thanks for your concern (and I mean that honestly not sarcastically) but as I mentioned mainly all of my family are Catholic and I have retained many friends from church. I know a few priests personally as well but no, have not had formal talks with them about myself. You appear to think I have some strong things against organised religion. The Catholic religion is a great thing and I definitely feel it right for many. For many reasons, personal and otherwise, I just think it would be wrong and inaccurate to describe myself as Catholic right now.
The last thing I will say here about my personal beliefs is that like everyone else’s it is more complicated than the one sentence I used earlier to sum it up and I dont feel this is the place to get into it.

Not sure what you are trying to achieve with this paragraph but just so you are aware, I was not condemning those who are open about their religiousity. Just stating the way they might be perceived. Still none of the ‘secular’’ people I know in the UK would condemn them for their beliefs nor do they have the right to. I did not realise that there was a ‘‘religion of global warming’’.
I think the increased awareness in recent years of our impact on the environment is a great thing.

Hope this helps you understand a little more. Bear in mind though that I do not in any way represent the majority of Europeans.

Peace and God bless!

 

[ethiopianheart]

You can’t stereotype Europe, some countries are very religious with high church attendance such as Ireland, Poland, Italy, Romania etc. Some countries are not so religious. As someone living in Europe, I think that those people living in those countries that are not so religious, I don’t believe it’s an active decision on the part of most people that they are atheists, that they don’t believe in God, I don’t think it’s like that.

I just think for the most part, it’s just apathy.

But revival can happen! There’s lots of devout Catholics here, and other Christians, never give up!

 

[SSTeacher]

SSTeacher;6468043:

I recommend it.

What about Madness

?

(name removed by moderator) is apparently familiar with Geordie talk. Gizzabrun – or, more correctly, gizzabroon – is annunciated nightly in Geordieland and translates to, “a pint of beer please, my friend is paying.” After 20 beeahs (pints of Newcastle Brown Ale) Geordies tell each other, “As gan yam,” which means, “I’m going home.” Geordies aren’t particular religious – or, at least, the ones I’ve met haven’t been. They could all shift pints, though. Geordies also believe in free speech. If only we knew what they were saying…

Oh, and, errr, any thoughts on Tony Blair and his particular brand of Catholicism?

Philologically,
Mick
:thumbsup:With all this talk of pints of beer and cozy pub talk (I don’t drink except the occasional glass of wine, never ever do I drink beer so I can’t relate much) it conjures these images LOL

Hey Ho! To the bottle I go,
To heal my heart and drown my woe,
Rain may fall, and wind may blow.
But there still be… many miles to go.
Sweet as the sound of the pouring rain,
Or the stream that falls from hill to plain,
Better than rain or rippling brook,
Is a mug of beer inside this Took!

http://fictionalbeer.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/lotr-beer.jpg

The contrast between bar hopping and pub crawling is perhaps best appreciated when one brings to mind the old rule recounted in Inns, Ales and Drinking Customs of Old England:

Not drunk is he who from the floor
Can rise again and still drink more,
But drunk is he who prostate lies,
Without the power to drink or rise​

Convivially,
Mick

 

[Daisy_Elizabeth]

Hello. I think many of you are right here… I am Norwegian, living in Norway which is a Lutheran Country but also lived many years in Ireland Which is Catholic.
People are good and bad everywhere no matter what religion. Some of the finest peole I know with the highest moral standards dont believe in anything at all.
You asked a question in your header, why not leave it at that if you were so interested in responses? Instead you come up with lots of statistics and at all turned out into a politic discussion.
I am a Catholic myself. It is lonely as Catholics are a minority here in Norway, and as some people ponted out, Islam seems to make huge progress. But i think it also make the Christian religion wake up again so in a way its good, because it is there in the heart and soul of the people,

God Bless, Daisy Elizabeth

 

[Berean2]

Having spent 3 years in Germany (in junior high) and my junior year of university in France, I saw things close-up (my mother’s whole side of the family still lives in Germany, and both my German cousins [hippy generation] are devout Leftists).

In 9th grade, right after confirmation, my highly intelligent (lawyer’s kid) 14 yr. old German best friend said to me (at that time, I was still 7 years away from coming to faith), "Christianity is all about selfishness, i.e. ‘how do I get my tush into heaven?’ " Meanwhile, in France, the predominant religion was Marxism, with daily pilgrimages (aka “demonstrations”) clogging up the main arteries of town with the Red disciples. (A Marxist prof gave me a measly final grade in her course because I had the chutzpah to question whether WW2 Marxist propaganda short stories could be classed as genuine “literature.”)

Socialism is Communism-lite; but just as in Poland, historically Catholicism was the air you breathed, so in the rest of Europe, Socialism is the axiomatic religion, tho of course very few recognize or acknowledge it as such (in Germany, the CDU/CSU has for decades tried to blend Catholicism with Socialism {snort}). Ditto for Nazism: it was in mid-19th c. Germany that the so-called “Higher Criticism” oozed out of the septic tank, poisoning first the universities (like PC here in the States), and then, slowly blighting the whole society, eventuating in the delirious adulation of Mr. Mustache-Messiah: deprived of true spiritual nourishment for almost a century, millions of Germans flocked around the bombastic baspel ladled out to them by the Dung Shirts (= national soup kitchen serving spiritual Frankenfood).

When Jesus said, “Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every Word that proceeds out of the mouth of God,” that doesn’t just mean that man needs God’s Truth; it also implies that because man is a spiritual creature, when he refuses the heavenly manna, he will turn to various spiritual junkfoods. Of course, the fiendish genius of both the Tarantulists as well as the BloodShirts is that they disguised their false religions as politics (not surprising, since as a result of the Enlightenment*, “modern” man has indeed made politics his source of salvation), thereby deceiving the multitudes.

So, I would say, “religion” is indeed alive and well in Europe, but in transmogrified stealth form.

(*No, I am not condemning the Enlightenment across the board; it had its benefits.)

Europe has had a lot of religious wars over the years from the Crusades to the Wars of Religion. We have basically agreed to remove most religion from the public space and keep it private. That way less people get killed.

Scores of millions got killed because of the clash of the 2 disguised religions during WW2 (actually, I should say 3 religions, bec. “Democracy” was the American counterpart to the other 2).

 

[Happy_B]

There is an awful lot of the old “I know what it’s like in Europe even though I don’t live there” style of argument (?) going on here. This seems perennially popular around these parts, and it’s quite embarrassing to see. If you do not live somewhere, how can you know what it is like? Even if you’ve visited for vacation or have relatives somewhere, that can’t substitute for actually living somewhere. I also have relatives in Europe (Slovakia; 13% “no religion” as of the 2001 census, according to the CIA World Factbook), but wouldn’t even pretend to know what it is like over there beyond what my uncle has personally told me (and even then, he’s an American who moved there after he retired from teaching in the USA about 15 years ago, so his perspective is colored by that experience). How some people seem to have no trouble pontificating about people and places they don’t live, especially when the OP didn’t at all ask for that, is just baffling. Maybe this thread should be retitled “What it is like to being needlessly rude to an entire continent based on nothing more than off-base, outmoded models of thinking held over from the cold war era”?

Well, as a native Slovak I can openly say that living as catholic in Slovakia and for example in England (where I presently live) is totally different.

Slovakia:

• There are over 70% of catholics in Slovakia.
• In every city, village, town there are normally 1-2 masses every day, one in the morning usually at 6-6.30am (usually packed with older people and 9-5 workers) and in the evening at 6-7pm where younger generations go. The morning mass is also great for people with 9-5 jobs who can get some spiritual strength for the day or to go for confession - many appreciate it as a great start of the day - I personally used to go to the morning mass before my school (or work as I used to work till quite late) and was much more in peace and less stressed before exams after I had attended a morning mass or went for confession in the morning
• On Sunday there are usually 5-7 masses in towns and cities. Every bigger town/city has youth choir attached to the church.
• In addition every day there is a rosary praying and other devotions such as the most sacred heart of Jesus, Prayers of mothers, Prayers of fathers, weekly Blessed Sacrament adoration, Family meetings, Spiritual renewals, Marian prayers, Senior prayers, etc
• There is a mass for children during the week, another mass for young adults and likewise on Sunday
• There are a few public holidays that are of a catholic nature established in the consitution when the whole country doesn’t go to work/school such as St Cyril and Methodius day, Epiphany, Our Lady of Sorrows, All saints and of course usual days during Christmas and Eeaster.
• Confessions are available before and after each mass usually for an hour - every day (this means in the morning and in the evening). Before Christmas and Easter you have to prepare yourself to wait even 3-4 hours in the queue! AND about an hour to two hours on the first Friday of each month!!! Everywhere!
• When you are in the classroom/workplace usually half or some people will be catholics so talking about going to mass, vigil, prayer meeting, etc is quite normal.
• Before Christmas and Easter there is a tradition that people tidy up their houses thoroughly to prepare for the feasts in every possible way so that their houses, flats and souls are all clean and pure.
• Many parishes organise pilgrimages to various holy places and many people attend them
• Churches are packed with no seats left and people standing where possible every Sunday, not to mention the churches over-crowded during the holy days where there are usually 4 masses on a week day+a mass on the previous night.
• Although there are atheist people in Slovakia, generally there is a catholic feel there, there are various processions with the cross, statues, etc throughout the cities during holy days, people live more united within the family and participate a lot in holy days, celebrations, visiting of graves during the All saints day, etc.
• Many young people attend the mass daily before or aftert work/school
• This all happens in villages, little towns and cities - everywhere

England - from my observation of a few years

• There is a strange tradition in almost every catholic church in England, that there are daily masses at 10am - I’ve been always wondering for whom they are??? For students who are at school? For 9-5 workers who are at work? For whom then? For grandmas’ and grandpas’ perhaps. Well, why are we then wondering that the young generation in the Uk doesn’t want to go to church? Maybe the church in the UK could re-think the plan and become more approachable…
• Confessions available for half an hour on Saturday
• PEOPLE DON’T REALLY GO FOR CONFESSION AND YET RECEIVE THE HOLY COMMUNION - I have been told this by many people who even laughed about it saying that people don’t go for confession anymore and that many people do it - this is quite shocking! When you go for a confession on Saturday there might be1-2 people waiting in the queue!!! And you see masses go for communion…
• I counted 15 people present at the holy day of obligation mass (All saints) at one of the biggest churches in Brighton (city of 150.000) - I could not believe it with my own eyes when I compared it with my little town in Slovakia of 15.000 people where during this kind of a mass you can’t breath because there’s not much air left for everyone in the church and you’re happy that you stand on one toe

If there are any questions I will happily answer

 

[JHow]

Quite true. Although, a practicing Catholic shouldn’t be lonely at least in Poland. Hopefully, it doesn’t join the ranks of other secular countries in the future.

Yes. This is the question. I lived in Poland from 1994 to 1997. It was very Catholic then, but the memories of the 1980’s were fresh.

 

[Aboveallbereal]

I really dislike the tone of your post. There is really no need to color your opinion with this sort of American chauvinist anti-European talk. Yes, there are a lot of bad things going on here. But I spend some time in the US and though politics and legislation in Europe are far more anti-Christian than in the US, moral life in the US isn’t much better than it is here.

In general:
Two people in this thread linked the socialist welfare state to higher rates of atheïsm. Where exactly lies that relation?

The relation lies in the fact that people in welfarist cultures no longer link action with consequence thus the moral efficacy of an action is of no concern. A European who decides not to work simply allows the taxpayer through the state to provide for him and he is in practice f not theory permitted to do this indefinitely. If he decides to leave his family he knows they will be housed/clothed/educated etc etc free of charge. The necesity for adulthood is removed.

 

[bosnian_muslim]

Europe is not religious,its deeply secular

I remember going once with school to visit an old church…all the children saw it as a museum nothing more,there was one kid and he was italian…he took it seriously and said a prayer,i remember the teacher trying to stay away from laugh,the children where like “omg dont tell you believe in that”

thats western Europe

poland,italy are different,they are religious,also the Balkans

 

[Aboveallbereal]

Having spent 3 years in Germany (in junior high) and my junior year of university in France, I saw things close-up (my mother’s whole side of the family still lives in Germany, and both my German cousins [hippy generation] are devout Leftists).

In 9th grade, right after confirmation, my highly intelligent (lawyer’s kid) 14 yr. old German best friend said to me (at that time, I was still 7 years away from coming to faith), "Christianity is all about selfishness, i.e. ‘how do I get my tush into heaven?’ " Meanwhile, in France, the predominant religion was Marxism, with daily pilgrimages (aka “demonstrations”) clogging up the main arteries of town with the Red disciples. (A Marxist prof gave me a measly final grade in her course because I had the chutzpah to question whether WW2 Marxist propaganda short stories could be classed as genuine “literature.”)

Socialism is Communism-lite; but just as in Poland, historically Catholicism was the air you breathed, so in the rest of Europe, Socialism is the axiomatic religion, tho of course very few recognize or acknowledge it as such (in Germany, the CDU/CSU has for decades tried to blend Catholicism with Socialism {snort}). Ditto for Nazism: it was in mid-19th c. Germany that the so-called “Higher Criticism” oozed out of the septic tank, poisoning first the universities (like PC here in the States), and then, slowly blighting the whole society, eventuating in the delirious adulation of Mr. Mustache-Messiah: deprived of true spiritual nourishment for almost a century, millions of Germans flocked around the bombastic baspel ladled out to them by the Dung Shirts (= national soup kitchen serving spiritual Frankenfood).

When Jesus said, “Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every Word that proceeds out of the mouth of God,” that doesn’t just mean that man needs God’s Truth; it also implies that because man is a spiritual creature, when he refuses the heavenly manna, he will turn to various spiritual junkfoods. Of course, the fiendish genius of both the Tarantulists as well as the BloodShirts is that they disguised their false religions as politics (not surprising, since as a result of the Enlightenment*, “modern” man has indeed made politics his source of salvation), thereby deceiving the multitudes.

So, I would say, “religion” is indeed alive and well in Europe, but in transmogrified stealth form.

(*No, I am not condemning the Enlightenment across the board; it had its benefits.)

Scores of millions got killed because of the clash of the 2 disguised religions during WW2 (actually, I should say 3 religions, bec. “Democracy” was the American counterpart to the other 2).

I wholly agree. Perhaps the most pernicious secular myth is the notion that privatising Christianity somehow removes a cause of violence. If anything the opposite is true since the religious impulse thusly denied morphs in the darkness and finds expression in devient or fundamentalist humanisms such as Communism or nazism.

 

[Aboveallbereal]

Europe is not religious,its deeply secular

I remember going once with school to visit an old church…all the children saw it as a museum nothing more,there was one kid and he was italian…he took it seriously and said a prayer,i remember the teacher trying to stay away from laugh,the children where like “omg dont tell you believe in that”

thats western Europe

poland,italy are different,they are religious,also the Balkans

The fact that you are essentially correct explains why your co-religionists do not need jihadism or violence to win…the fact is the gates of Vienna are no longer defended. Islam can simply push the unmanned door and walk in. The financial crisis is symbolic of a Europe past maturity and in early senility…unable to deny itself instant pleasures, incontinent, forgetful, ageing with liberal humanism, a sort of Christian heresy, the de facto religion.

 

[bosnian_muslim]

Anyway, I was wondering for any Christians, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, Pagans, Deists, Jews, etc. out there living in Europe or have lived there, what’s it like? I can’t imagine living in East Germany where only 12% of the population share belief in God. Also I understand for instance in Sweden, abortion is legal and there is no debate on it’s legality or morality, is it like that in other places in Europe as well?

I live in Sweden

Most people are atheist ot agnostic,they simply dont care about religion.To them,its part of the past and tradition(for christmas).But that doesnt affect your life…you can be as religious…sure people have prejudices,and if you go around and talk about religion people will maybe think you are weird but nothing more.

 

[bosnian_muslim]

The fact that you are essentially correct explains why your co-religionists do not need jihadism or violence to win…the fact is the gates of Vienna are no longer defended. Islam can simply push the unmanned door and walk in. The financial crisis is symbolic of a Europe past maturity and in early senility…unable to deny itself instant pleasures, incontinent, forgetful, ageing with liberal humanism, a sort of Christian heresy, the de facto religion.

what do you think that the european powerfull men just hate christianity? they see islam as a threat and fight it…just look at France,most of french people dont give a damn about church or religion but they see islam as a threat to their ultra secular lifestyle

the biggest supporters of muslim rights have been the religious(priests and nuns)

 

[Aboveallbereal]

I live in Sweden

Most people are atheist ot agnostic,they simply dont care about religion.To them,its part of the past and tradition(for christmas).But that doesnt affect your life…you can be as religious…sure people have prejudices,and if you go around and talk about religion people will maybe think you are weird but nothing more.

I’ve lived in Scandinavia and agree with you. Christianity is linked to traditions like Christmas ( now wholly repaganised ) and to things like renaissance art nd old church architecture. Thre are almost certainly more practising Muslims than Christians in Scandinavia and a form of environmentalist Gaia worship linked with humanism is the wooly headed de facto religion. Christianity is redundant in Scandinavia.

Do you have figures? I doubt is more than 3% attend Lutheran churches.

 

[Aboveallbereal]

what do you think that the european powerfull men just hate christianity? they see islam as a threat and fight it…just look at France,most of french people dont give a damn about church or religion but they see islam as a threat to their ultra secular lifestyle

the biggest supporters of muslim rights have been the religious(priests and nuns)

Don’t underestimate european hate of Christianity. The reason why many Europeans hate Islam more is because they assume that Christianity is no longer a threat to relativism becaue it is thought to be irretrievably weadened and in retreat whereas Islam is seen as having energy and willlpower. Islam is in the frontline where Christianity has been defeated.

Where Christianity still has some vibrancy it is it which remains the number one hate object. EG I live in ireland. The Church is loathed and not just because of the abuse scandal.

Europeans want a relativistic guilt free consequence free life and woe betide he who seeks to rock the boat. The desire for ritual remains - witness the trend for tattooing and body piercing which is a return to pagan norms - but Christian ritual implies limits on sexual and other licence and a europe in decline is unable to accept such limits.

 

[bosnian_muslim]

I’ve lived in Scandinavia and agree with you. Christianity is linked to traditions like Christmas ( now wholly repaganised ) and to things like renaissance art nd old church architecture. Thre are almost certainly more practising Muslims than Christians in Scandinavia and a form of environmentalist Gaia worship linked with humanism is the wooly headed de facto religion. Christianity is redundant in Scandinavia.

Do you have figures? I doubt is more than 3% attend Lutheran churches.

around 10% of swedes see themself as chistian,around 50% are agnostic and rest are atheist.Church attendance is very low,

churches are closing down …one church in my town is becoming a shopping center…