What is it with the Jesuits?

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Charlemagne_II

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Why have the Jesuits been routinely suppressed in so many countries throughout their history?

Why is it that even today, in the American colleges, they routinely embarrass the Catholic Church by inviting to speak, at the Catholic colleges they operate, commencement speakers who have established their voting credentials as anti-life?

Wasn’t this Order originally created to be the pope’s own Catholic soldiers in the field?
 
Charlemagne_II said:
Why have the Jesuits been routinely suppressed in so many countries throughout their history?

Why is it that even today, in the American colleges, they routinely embarrass the Catholic Church by inviting to speak, at the Catholic colleges they operate, commencement speakers who have established their voting credentials as anti-life?

Wasn’t this Order originally created to be the pope’s own Catholic soldiers in the field?
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Most Jesuits are good. The bad ones just get media attention.
 
Inquiring

**The bad ones just get media attention. **

So why can’t the bad ones rein in the good ones? Is the Order without discipline?
 
Charlemagne_II said:
Why is it that even today, in the American colleges, they routinely embarrass the Catholic Church by inviting to speak, at the Catholic colleges they operate, commencement speakers who have established their voting credentials as anti-life?
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I am not quite sure what you are referring to, but you might want to make sure that Jesuits actually run the colleges. Many colleges and universities were founded, and run, by religious orders. But many transferred operations to a secular board decades ago. For example, Georgetown University.
Charlemagne_II said:
So why can’t the bad ones rein in the good ones? Is the Order without discipline?
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It would help this discussion if you would mention particular instances of abuse, rather than writing vague generalities.
 
Charlemagne_II said:
O.K. Let’s start with this one. 😉

calcatholic.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?id=bc95eafd-b158-4518-8ae6-6ae50a5d221d

Are you going to say the Jesuits are powerless to weigh in on who will be commencement speakers and who will not?
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I don’t know. What relationship does the Society of Jesus have with the University of San Francisco today?

The article you posted suggests that the commencement speaker issue is something for Archbishop Niederauer to handle.

And it mentions that Bishop George Murry, SJ requested a Mercy College in his diocese to change speakers. Should he be condemned because he is a Jesuit?
 
Dale

Looks like you are looking for wiggle room to get the Jesuits off the hot seat. Is that going to be your question every time a source is brought to your attention? “What role do the Jesuits play?” Read the article! :mad:
**
And it mentions that Bishop George Murry, SJ requested a Mercy College in his diocese to change speakers. Should he be condemned because he is a Jesuit? **

Not correct. When a priest of an Order becomes a bishop he surrenders membership in his Order. Technically, this bishop became a member of the American college of bishops and therefore represents now the will of the collective bishops, not the will of an individual Jesuit or the collective will of the Jesuits.
 
Charlemagne_II said:
Dale

Looks like you are looking for wiggle room to get the Jesuits off the hot seat.
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No, I am simply asking that you have some idea of what you are criticizing, instead of making vague and possibly ill-founded accusations.

I did read the article, but I don’t see what it has to do with criticizing Jesuits.
Charlemagne_II said:
When a priest of an Order becomes a bishop he surrenders membership in his Order.
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I don’t think that is true. It is easy to see that he is still a member of the Society of Jesus because he has the initials SJ after his name.
 
Our own bishop uses the initials of his Order after his name as a courtesy to inform people of the Order to which he belonged. Our bishop is no longer subject to the authority of the head of the Order to which he belonged. He is a bishop, no longer a missionary priest, even though you might say he lives in missionary country!.
 
yellow

Surely it would be better if the good ones reined in the bad ones.

Thanks. My moment of dyslexia to savor!
 
I love the Jesuits…“the Pope’s Marines”…my Jesuit priests/teachers made my boot camp experiences at Paris Island…“a walk in the park”…not literally, but you get what I mean.

What…has and is happening…to the Jesuits (and many Local Churches – Dioceses – and Religious Orders) is the same thing that…has and is happening…to all of us…the inherent TEST of Vatican II! [by “inherent” I mean: a permanent, essential, or characteristic attribute].

The Holy Spirit who led Jesus into the desert for His great Test–the same Test that Adam and Eve failed!..to Test His obedience in faith and trust to the Father…to seek first His (Father’s) Kingdom and His (Father’s) Righteousness (Will)…that same Holy Spirit led Blessed Pope John XXIII (and all of the Church…all of us–bishops, priests, deacons, religious and laity–) into the Desert–into Vatican II for our great Test…by which I mean the Holy Spirit took the “training wheels off of our faith” (off of our dogmatic/doctrinal…off of our religious assent to the Pope and bishops ordinary teachings…and off of our cultural – Catholic Faith)…and (The Holy Spirit) told us singularly and collectively…show me how Catholic you really are…how faithful of a disciple of Jesus Christ you really are…how obedient a Catholic you are to Christ and His Church…his Body!..how much you singularly and collectively…seek first the Kingdom of God and His Righteousness (Will)!

or maybe a better way to say it is that the Holy Spirit said: “…let me…show you…how Catholic you really are…”.

Jesuit’ dissidents, Catholic political dissidents, other noted dissidents (although great causes of scandal…at times) are no different from the rest of us** who don’t always pass the great Test of the Desert…fidelity …obedience…sacrificial love of God and neighbor** – all of which is only possible–by His Graces…in His Graces…with His great Graces and by the humble assent and cooperation of our free will – To the Father, Through Christ, In the Holy Spirit…in Unity and Communion with the Body of Christ…His One, Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church!

My two-cents…for your consideration.
Pax Christi
Catechism of the Catholic Church–Second Edition
892 Divine assistance is also given to the successors of the apostles, teaching in communion with the successor of Peter, and, in a particular way, to the bishop of Rome, pastor of the whole Church, when, without arriving at an infallible definition and without pronouncing in a “definitive manner,” they propose in the exercise of the ordinary Magisterium a teaching that leads to better understanding of Revelation in matters of faith and morals. To** this ordinary teaching the faithful “are to adhere to it with religious assent” which, though distinct from the assent of faith, is nonetheless an extension of it**.
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Matthew 4: 1
New International Version 1984
The Temptation of Jesus
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1"** Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the desert, to be tempted by the devil**.
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Luke 10: 16
New International Version 1984
Jesus Sends Out the Seventy-two
16“He who listens to you listens to me; he who rejects you rejects me; but he who rejects me rejects him who sent me.”
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Matthew 6: 28-34
New International Version 1984
Do Not Worry
**
28“And why do you worry about clothes? See how the lilies of the field grow. They do not labor or spin. 29Yet I tell you that not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these. 30If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, will he not much more clothe you, O you of little faith?** 31So do not worry, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’ 32For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. 33But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well. 34Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.
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The Jesuits get an unfair rap. They have historically been given the most challenging, dangerous tasks in the most hostile places, and they have usually succeeded. Time and time again, they have been the ones to suppress heresies and establish the church in lands where Catholics were prosecuted. Once the situation has stabilized, other groups enter those territories and try to suppress the Jesuits, simply because they had become the de facto heads of the church in areas where nobody else dared operate.

In the United States, their mission was to strengthen the scholastic and intellectual profile of the American church by building research universities, and they succeeded beyond anybody’s wildest imagination. The universities they started – Georgetown, USF, Boston College, etc., have become recognized as some of the best in the country, and as their profile has grown, they have become more attractive to secular intellectuals and non-Catholics. Due to the small number of Jesuits, the huge sums of money involved in these institutions, and the relatively little direct support the Vatican has provided for the mission, these large universities have come under secular control, albeit still with a very strong Catholic presence. This mostly hasn’t happened to the colleges and universities that other orders and dioceses have set up, simply because they haven’t become large enough or successful enough for anybody in the broader world of academia to take note of them.
 
Why don’t you go online and do some research into the Society of Jesus? You are simply engaging in ignorant and ill-informed ad hominem attack.

The Jesuits were often suppressed because of their attacks on corruption in the Church, and in lands where they were present. One of the things we are called to do as Catholics is ‘speak Truth to power’, and the Society has often done that quite effectively.
 
Charlemagne_II said:
Why have the Jesuits been routinely suppressed in so many countries throughout their history?

Why is it that even today, in the American colleges, they routinely embarrass the Catholic Church by inviting to speak, at the Catholic colleges they operate, commencement speakers who have established their voting credentials as anti-life?

Wasn’t this Order originally created to be the pope’s own Catholic soldiers in the field?
Click to expand...
Because they were so devout and so effective in spreading the Catholic faith.

Because since socialism became popular many within the Society of Jesus embraced liberation theology in the name of “social justice”; by doing this they disregarded true Catholic social justice achieved without big government (which Jesuits were probably most successful at advocating than all other Catholics). Although there are still many faithful Jesuits. The Society of Jesus is my favorite Order despite many members downfalls, because of the strong social justice aspect, their success in converting many people and nations, and how devout they have been historically. The Society of Jesus has truly helped the Church in many ways. 🙂

I don’t know. I thought it was created in order to convert places back to Catholicism from Protestantism (i.e Germany, Poland, etc.)
 
martin
**
Why don’t you go online and do some research into the Society of Jesus? You are simply engaging in ignorant and ill-informed ad hominem attack.**

I doubt that you can explain, or have any interest in explaining, why so many Catholics (including a few priests I have known) who are loyal to the Magisterium do not share your opinion of the Jesuits.

May be that you are more ill informed than some of us are? :confused:

You might also want to look at bit at Blaise Pascal, whose own war with the Jesuits was a humdinger.

I knew a priest who, when visiting a Catholic campus and was asked if he was a Jesuit, replied, “No, I am a Catholic priest.”

Well, that’s anecdotal, but after a while the anecdotes pile up and a pattern begins to emerge.

blog.cardinalnewmansociety.org/2012/04/30/lavender-graduation-trend-continues-at-catholic-colleges/

Three Catholic Colleges mentioned here are run by the Jesuits:

Georgetown
University of San Francisco
Marquette
 
The Jesuit order is corrupt. The order is not orthodox and does not honor the magisterium. The order has widespread confusion about homosexuality and other life issues. Not to say there are not devout, good Jesuits. Sadly, they are the MINORITY in the order. Just read America magazine, or worse yet, Eco-Jesuit. If you say, well, prove that to us! You will have to trust me that I know and I’ve seen, and I’m involved with the Jesuits. I cannot say more without naming names.
 
^:D

I for one am a cheerleader of the Jesuits. They do some wonderful things around the world.

It’s the American Jesuits that tend to do things that aren’t always consistent with the spirituality of St. Ignatius.

There’s plenty of Jesuit jokes, but I’ve noticed a newer one lately that focuses on greed and money. It’s sadly become evident in the American Jesuit organization, particularly educational, that there is only recently been shown a large devotion to the dollar.

Look at Loyola Chicago: millions and millions of dollars spent and earned in the past decade. Extravagant construction projects abound at LUC; it’s almost frightening.

But, I still love the SJs.
 
Actually, it was Pascal who was on the side of a philosophy later declared heretical. (I am not claiming him to be a heretic, so let’s not have that discussion.) Jansenism comes dangerously close to Calvinism.

This argument, I suspect, will certainly generate more heat than light. It is up to you to support your accusations, and you have not cited a single fact to support your claim. You obviously don’t like the Jesuits; that is your right. But you are bearing false witness against them, and you have not made a single rational point.

I went to a Jesuit high school. I know a lot of Jesuit priests. A parish I frequently attend often enlists Jesuits to hear Confessions, and celebrate Mass. I have yet to see an example of what you allege.
 
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