What is Justice?

[emrys250]

I am currently a freshman in college taking a political science class titled “What is justice?”. I wanted a Catholic perspective on the matter - as I am Catholic - so I read what the CCC has to say on the matter, but I still have a few questions.
The Catechism of the Catholic Church states that:

Justice is the moral virtue that consists in the constant and firm will to give their due to God and neighbor. Justice toward God is called the “virtue of religion.” Justice toward men disposes one to respect the rights of each and to establish in human relationships the harmony that promotes equity with regard to persons and to the common good. The just man, often mentioned in the Sacred Scriptures, is distinguished by habitual right thinking and the uprightness of his conduct toward his neighbor. “You shall not be partial to the poor or defer to the great, but in righteousness shall you judge your neighbor.” “Masters, treat your slaves justly and fairly, knowing that you also have a Master in heaven.” CCC 1807

My questions are:

1. What if we borrow an axe from our neighbor and when he asks for it back, he is in no condition to receive it (for example, if he is drunk) without putting himself in danger? (Socrates says something to this effect in The Republic of Plato, see 331c-d .)
2. Because humans are not omnipotent, how do we know what is due to our neighbor? What if we do something because we think it is due to them but what we do ends up hurting them instead? What is important: our intent in carrying out actions or the end result of out actions?

Discussion is fine, but I am really looking for an answer that corresponds with Catholic doctorine.

 

[emrys250]

Eek! I just realized I meant omniscient, not omnipotent. I’m unsure how to edit the post… there is no edit button anymore.

 

[Mike_Brick]

“What is justice?”.
The Catechism of the Catholic Church states that: Justice is the moral virtue that consists in the constant and firm will to give their due to God and neighbor. Justice toward God is called the “virtue of religion.” Justice toward men disposes one to respect the rights of each and to establish in human relationships the harmony that promotes equity with regard to persons and to the common good. CCC 1807

The answer you search for is from the CCC quote you provided, and is underlined above. In addition recall the verse in Sacred Scripture where Jesus in describing the love of His Father and says words to the effect, what father among you if his son asked for bread would give him a stone, or was it a viper. Unfortunately I can’t find the exact verse just now to cite it, but the point is believers do have a responsibility to love one another, and in so doing must not deliberately do something that would cause harm to another. But at the same time we must not judge others, as many Christians both Catholic and Protestant do when refusing to give to a beggar because, “they’ll just buy alcohol with it”. Everyone must answer for their actions and omissions, including the beggars, and those confronted by them too.

I hope this helped.

 

[emrys250]

But at the same time we must not judge others, as many Christians both Catholic and Protestant do when refusing to give to a beggar because, “they’ll just buy alcohol with it”. Everyone must answer for their actions and omissions, including the beggars, and those confronted by them too.
I hope this helped.

The situation you describe differs from the one in my question. Let me try to explain again:

Your neighbor lets you borrow his ax because you need to split logs. Late at night, he comes over to your house, obviously drunk. There is no need for judgment- the man’s breath stinks, he is stumbling around, and is even carrying a bottle of whiskey with him. You neighbor demands that you give him the ax back.

Because the ax belongs to your neighbor, should you “give him his due” i.e. the ax, even though he is likely to hurt himself with it?

 

[Mike_Brick]

The situation you describe differs from the one in my question. Let me try to explain again:

Your neighbor lets you borrow his ax because you need to split logs. Late at night, he comes over to your house, obviously drunk. There is no need for judgment- the man’s breath stinks, he is stumbling around, and is even carrying a bottle of whiskey with him. You neighbor demands that you give him the ax back.

Because the ax belongs to your neighbor, should you “give him his due” i.e. the ax, even though he is likely to hurt himself with it?

I cannot answer how you should respond, and my first post was to provide you with information with which to make a good decision yourself.

With that said, were it me, I would not return the ax at that time, under those conditions you described. Yes you borrowed your neighbor’s property and he has a right to it, but at the same time you have a moral responsibility to protect him and you from harm as well if he is as you describe.

If I stop there, I suspect your next post would be he demands the ax and makes either implied or specific threats against you if you don’t comply. Then you, as a student of justice, will understand we all live in societies where each individual forgoes his “natural” rights to the society/community/government, and relies on that society, community, government, by closing and locking the door then dialing 911 to get the help you need to peacefully resolve the situation. You can then even give the ax to the responding police officer if he/she will secure it for your neighbor when they are ready to receive it back.

Only then do you learn the most important life lesson here, never borrow tools from neighbors, because they usually are old and break when you are using them and you have to buy them a new one as a replacement, and you get the old broken one. It’s far better to get your own new one in the first place and everyone remains happy.

 

[Sixtus]

Only then do you learn the most important life lesson here, never borrow tools from neighbors, because they usually are old and break when you are using them and you have to buy them a new one as a replacement, and you get the old broken one. It’s far better to get your own new one in the first place and everyone remains happy.

Yes I agree

Why is it that whenever I loan tools/equipment, the borrower assumes that I have given them!

 

[contramundum7]

I am currently a freshman in college taking a political science class titled “What is justice?”. I wanted a Catholic perspective on the matter - as I am Catholic - so I read what the CCC has to say on the matter, but I still have a few questions.
The Catechism of the Catholic Church states that:

My questions are:

1. What if we borrow an axe from our neighbor and when he asks for it back, he is in no condition to receive it (for example, if he is drunk) without putting himself in danger? (Socrates says something to this effect in The Republic of Plato, see 331c-d .)
2. Because humans are not omnipotent, how do we know what is due to our neighbor? What if we do something because we think it is due to them but what we do ends up hurting them instead? What is important: our intent in carrying out actions or the end result of out actions?

Discussion is fine, but I am really looking for an answer that corresponds with Catholic doctorine.

 

[contramundum7]

contramundum7:
Maybe justice is better defined by saying waht it is NOT. Maybe justice is like what that one Supreme Court justice said: “… I know it when i see it”.
The catechism’s definition is the best… But when i was asked that question about a yr ago, i first made the point that justice - true justice - does not exist in this world. People strive for justice (some more than others) & that’s good, but it cannot be achieved in this world, absolutely speaking.
I believe that God intercedes in our lives more than we think He does… And he uses certain events/relationships, etc… to bring about some form of His own, true justice. For example, i read a lot and i’ve read a lot of stories lately about people who were convicted of things they didn’t do (one almost got put to death). But invariably, the person wrong accused has done SOMETHING wrong to get into that position of having to defend himself/herself in the first place… i feel God does many things to get our attention… & to bring us closer to the One who knows all about injustice - Jesus.

 

[Texas_Roofer]

I do not see the problem in the Catechism? My guess and it is just a guess is you may be confusing the prudent judgment one must make in every day about doing the best option available verses “damn” another human? In the Catechism the reference is to living a just life in a just society. In the premise proposed there is an appearance of an unjust world in which a drunk wants his weapon(?) returned. Similarly in a third scenario police, lawyers, and judges work in re-establishing justice (with in society) when a violation of justice is believed to occurred.

So in summary we should strive to live as described in the Catechism(condition 1), In condition 2 (your scenario) we should strive to return the present situation to condition #1 if possible, and in condition 3 which occurs after the crime, we should support the police, lawyers, and judges in their attempt to re-establish condition #1.

FYI in a law class years ago we were taught “legal justice” is a fair trial- regardless of outcome. When the trial freely releases an offender, we were taught “justice” was served in society as the offender’s fate was chosen by a free jury. God will later judge us all, not by our role in society but by our fate and works regardless of society. The justice God chooses seals our fate in eternity not society.

Hope that helps