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severus68
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I don’t think that was what the OP meant. Her question was about men, it could equally apply to women.
Your statement about men and women and marriage is true and it is very disrespectful to women and to men.
- Status
Your statement about men and women and marriage is true and it is very disrespectful to women and to men.
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AnneElizabeth
Guest
Oh dear,… yes… my thought processes…
I do claim there is some coherency to it, but it just might be too subjective. I admit they are hard to follow. Its why I do art- a picture is worth a thousand words after all and I can’t seem to think in a narrow precise simple orderly fashion- like men do.Which reminds me of this bit:
A Tale of Two Brains youtube.com/watch?v=gH71cbhreQE
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severus68
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I disagree. Your views on men and women in general,are very pessimistic and rather insulting.
Feminism has done a lot of good in this world. I suppose there are some who still fear it - ah well.
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severus68
Guest
What about if men do not have sex with women outside marriage?
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severus68
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I agree.
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severus68
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severus68
Guest
Most men in Australia, in the US or in the world? Certainly not the men in my family, my male relatives, friends. They are happy to support their wives as their wives support them.An answer based on observation of myself and other men…
Men marry because they love a woman, and want to have her companionship as a wife, have sex with her, and raise a family with her.
There is often some tension in the second part, ie. companionship, between a man’s and a woman’s expectations. Most men prefer a woman who will run the house and support his career, while many women resist this and seek “fulfillment” in work and other ways (…) outside the home.
My favourite romance saying is “Women crave intensity, men crave comfort”.
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severus68
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That is true.
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Sarcelle
Guest
Studies have shown time and time again that married men are healthier and live longer than single men. Obviously marriage is good for them.
I think the same goes for women. Single women however are better off than single men as single women have larger social support than single men.
I think the same goes for women. Single women however are better off than single men as single women have larger social support than single men.
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severus68
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You can believe what you want and live your life and future marriage the way you want. Some of us do not want one partner in a marriage to head the other. We prefer mutual respect and submission. Men having authority over women is not Catholic doctrine.
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severus68
Guest
Well and honestly said.
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jeannetherese
Guest
Hi AnnElizabeth, This is from the CDC (2007) Being married can give a men more years to get close to Our Lord.
cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr55/nvsr55_19.pdf
National Vital Statistics Reports, Vol. 55, No. 19, August 21, 2007 11
Marital status
For those aged 15 years and over, the number of deaths in 2004 of persons who were married was 919,270; widowed, 892,017; never married, 248,424; and divorced, 286,758 (Table 25); see ‘‘Technical Notes.’’ Those who never married had the highest age-adjusted death rate, followed by widowed, divorced, and then married persons. The never-married group had an age-adjusted death rate that was
61.4 percent higher than the ever-married group and 2.2 times the rate for the currently married. Age-adjusted death rates for widowed were 88.8 percent higher than the rates for those who were currently married at the time of death. Divorced persons had a rate 88.7 percent higher than those who were married at the time of death.
For all age groups 15 years and over, death rates for married persons were much lower than those for never-married persons. For ages 15–24 years, divorced persons had the highest death rates, whereas, at ages 25–34 years, widowed persons had the highest death rate. For ages 35–44, 45–54, 55–64, and 75 years and over, those who never married had the highest death rates.
For each marital status group in 2004, males had higher age-adjusted death rates than females, ranging from 26.8 percent greater for the never married to 109.7 percent greater for those married at the time of death.
cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr55/nvsr55_19.pdf
National Vital Statistics Reports, Vol. 55, No. 19, August 21, 2007 11
Marital status
For those aged 15 years and over, the number of deaths in 2004 of persons who were married was 919,270; widowed, 892,017; never married, 248,424; and divorced, 286,758 (Table 25); see ‘‘Technical Notes.’’ Those who never married had the highest age-adjusted death rate, followed by widowed, divorced, and then married persons. The never-married group had an age-adjusted death rate that was
61.4 percent higher than the ever-married group and 2.2 times the rate for the currently married. Age-adjusted death rates for widowed were 88.8 percent higher than the rates for those who were currently married at the time of death. Divorced persons had a rate 88.7 percent higher than those who were married at the time of death.
For all age groups 15 years and over, death rates for married persons were much lower than those for never-married persons. For ages 15–24 years, divorced persons had the highest death rates, whereas, at ages 25–34 years, widowed persons had the highest death rate. For ages 35–44, 45–54, 55–64, and 75 years and over, those who never married had the highest death rates.
For each marital status group in 2004, males had higher age-adjusted death rates than females, ranging from 26.8 percent greater for the never married to 109.7 percent greater for those married at the time of death.
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severus68
Guest
I am glad the Church does not say that a woman must be the wife you want to be. A woman does not stop being a person in her own right when she marries.
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AnneElizabeth
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Thanks so far for your posts… I am taking them in consideration. As far as men having authority over women not being Catholic doctrine, would you find documentation of that for me and post that here? In the meantime, I will do my homework as well and look it up.
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severus68
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Thank you for your charitable response. I will send you links. Perhaps you can look at it in a different way as in “where does the Church say that men have authority over women?”
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AnneElizabeth
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Hmm… not sure you understood what I was trying to say correctly, or that i was not conveying correctly what I wanted to say. I realize a woman does not stop being a person in her own right. That’s what I meant by the statemtn taht women are not to worship men as if they were God. But I do think that we are supposed to submit to our husbands as the head of the house, that is, he is the leader… not two ‘equals’… but I may be errouneous in stating it that way…
Here I looked it up at least in one Catholic book. This is from “My Catholic Faith” 1949 (I’m going old-timey here since there are those Catholics who are cautious about the new catachism.)
Under 164. Duties of Married Life
- For its type and model, marriage has the Mystical Union between Christ and His Church. The husband should love his wife as Christ loves the Church, with a holy and supernatural love, as his own self. **The wife should love and obey her husband as the head of the family. **
“Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the Church” (Eph. 5: 25) “Wives be subject to your husbands, as it is becoming in the Lord” (Col. 3:19) In explaining the meaning of this latter passage, Pius XI his encyclical on Christian marriage says: “This subjection does not take away the liberty which fully belongs to the woman both in view of her dignity as a human person , and in view of her most noble office as wife and mother and companion: or does it bid her obey her husband’s every request, even if not in harmony with right reason or the dignity due her as wife…But it forbids that exaggerated liberty which cares not for the good of the family; it forbids that in this body which is the family, the heart be separated form the head, to the great detriment of the whole body, and the proximate danger of ruin. For if the man is the head, the woman is the heart, and as he occupies the chief place of ruling, she ought to claim for herself the chief place in love”
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EasterJoy
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Is this not also true of a man who works for an employer, instead of for himself? It can, but it does not need to.
How can it be avoided, you ask? Well, my husband and I avoid it by considering the job of one to be the job of both. His job is also my job; my job is his job. We both work for the good of the entire family. Remember…it is not your husband or your employer who is your master. It is the Lord who is your master, whether you marry or whether you don’t, whether you have a job that pays money or whether you do other work.
The main thing, then, is to choose your career knowing that if you marry you will conduct it from a single life shared with a person with whom you will hope to be a parent, as well. That doesn’t close off this career or that career, but it does close off conducting a career in your own way instead of in a way arrived at by joint decision and joint consent.
I say this married to someone in a career that has a very high divorce rate. I believe that it has made a great difference to my husband to know that I see his job as our job and the sacrifices he makes at work to be sacrifices he makes on our behalf as a family…we accept his sacrifices because we see them as our sacrifices. He is not torn; he is supported. That has made all the difference.
The would-be “career person”, especially if she is a woman, has to realize that this attitude is not the norm. There is a lot of “my career” and “your career” thinking among couples, whether two-earner or single-earner. That is a recipe for a lot of discontent, and I think it is a recipe for a heightened risk of divorce, too.
The main thing, then is this: To marry someone who has an attitude that “I am not my own.” The less they go around thinking “mine” and “what’s in it for me?”, the better. Neither should their life revolve around you, but rather your relationship will evolve to revolve around what you are called to do as a couple. That is a person with whom you can found a good marriage and a sound family.
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Tucek1014
Guest
As a man my incentive to marry was a part of my continued faith journey. I felt the Lord calling me to marry my wife to care for her and help her grow in holiness. Marriage is a vocation, not just something you eventually do in life. Raising a family is the fruit of marriage and a father’s role is irreplacable in the lives of his children for many reasons. I think the big issues society is having today is a result of a lack of fathers influence in kids lives. So while a good Catholic man would always strive towards holiness and follow the Lord, why wouldn’t I listen to His call? Also, marriage helps me to grow as well because my wife constantly points out my short comings that I somehow overlook myself. It helps me contiunally try and convert my life to be more like Christ. Men shouldn’t look at today’s problems and say well apparently the world’s “good enough” without me, so I won’t bother. Are we supposed to be content with being “good enough”? No a real man (and I’m far from this, but trying) says I can help make this world better by serving others.
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AnneElizabeth
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Furthermore, continuing on from my previous post… If a woman loves her job and her career, she isn’t submitting to the head and she is not doing it for the well being of the family. she is doing it for herself, and that is to great detriment to the family!!!
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EasterJoy
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To love your job and to make sacrifices in it for your family are not mutually exclusive. If a priest loves his parish, does that mean he is not in submission to his bishop? No, it does not. He could hate his parish and be rebellion from his bishop, and he could love his parish and yet be willing to submit to whatever obedience to his bishop calls him to do.
Remember, too, that a husband is not the head of his household like a secular monarch. He is at the head of his household as Christ is at the head of the Church. He is not there to make everything revolve around what he wants for himself. He is there to make it possible for everyone to constantly be realigned with the will of the Father. Of course it is possible that this will include making sacrifices himself so that his wife can do work that God ordained for her to do. The thing is that everyone in the family has to have this attitude. Where there is one wage-earner and one person who takes care of everything else, it can be more easily hidden that this is not the model, but hiding the truth doesn’t change it.
- Status