What is man's incentive to marry?

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…The main thing, then, is to choose your career knowing that if you marry you will conduct it from a single life shared with a person with whom you will hope to be a parent, as well. That doesn’t close off this career or that career, but it does close off conducting a career in your own way instead of in a way arrived at by joint decision and joint consent.
Hmmm… this is something** I was never instructed **to take in consideration, and could be part of the problem. However, I still think… what career would that be?

You bring up some interesting points… and I meant to say earlier that I do think a woman can make money for the family. For instance, after I wrote what I did, I thought about those women who have small businesses run inside the home. I think there is nothing wrong with that, and in fact many times a great asset and necessity to the family. I do think she has to know when to put it down though… it can become her goal rather than those things she should attend to. I am speaking of married women of course here.

I suppose I see now what you are saying is that a man has a boss (usually) too. I’m going to chomp on that for a while!! Thank you again for your insights.
 
…For if the man is the head, the woman is the heart, and as he occupies the chief place of ruling, she ought to claim for herself the chief place in love"…
But the husband must also rule as Christ ruled:* “I cannot do anything on my own; I judge as I hear, and my judgment is just, because I do not seek my own will but the will of the one who sent me.” *John 5:30

But yes, a wife must try to be the Church even where her husband is failing at taking on his ordained role. He is not cured by her trying to take over his role, any more than the Church would be cured if the faithful or even the presbyterate were to respond to an unfaithful bishop by forcibly taking his role for themselves. That could never succeed. Instead, the bishop must be convinced to take on his proper role before peace can be restored.
 
If a woman loves her job and her career, she isn’t submitting to the head and she is not doing it for the well being of the family. she is doing it for herself, and that is to great detriment to the family!!!
This is confusing to me. It seems to me that a married woman is part of her family. Loving her job and career would, I imagine, help her to be happy which would in turn, I hope, add to the happiness of the family as a whole.
Women can have jobs and careers in both the waged and non-waged labor markets (as can men). Would you suggest that a woman who loves raising her children or cooking or cleaning for her family will be a detriment to her family? Is it better for a family to have one of its members miserable in his or her career?:confused:
May God bless all who labor. Amen.
 
This is confusing to me. It seems to me that a married woman is part of her family. Loving her job and career would, I imagine, help her to be happy which would in turn, I hope, add to the happiness of the family as a whole.
Women can have jobs and careers in both the waged and non-waged labor markets (as can men). Would you suggest that a woman who loves raising her children or cooking or cleaning for her family will be a detriment to her family? Is it better for a family to have one of its members miserable in his or her career?:confused:
May God bless all who labor. Amen.
I think you are on to something. We can think of it in the terms a wife would think of it if she were in a convent, instead. The idea is to ask what the community needs, and to seek to serve God by doing that and finding pleasure in that. The community, in its turn, looks to find the work that suits each of the sister’s aptitudes to what the community needs. They don’t put sisters into jobs for which they are ill-suited on purpose! Rather, they get to know each of the sisters intimately and try to make the need fit each of the ones who meet the needs, spreading the difficult work around fairly.

The Benedictines, too, both have an abbot and also direct in their rule that the abbot consult the brethren when the community has major decisions to make. I think these communities are very good models of how Christians who go in with a willingness to do all for God in a radical way can live as one in* practical* terms.
 
Haven’t had a chance to read the whole thread but I would just say this…

The incentive for a man to marry is… the person he is marrying.
 
I would love to hear the catholic response… especially from Catholic men.
We have now to explain why man and woman should be joined in marriage. First of all, nature itself by an instinct implanted in both sexes impels them to such companionship, and this is further encouraged by the hope of mutual assistance in bearing more easily the discomforts of life and the infirmities of old age.

A second reason for marriage is the desire of family, not so much, however, with a view to leave after us heirs to inherit our property and fortune, as to bring up children in the true faith and in the service of God. That such was the principal object of the holy Patriarchs when they married is clear from Scripture. Hence the Angel, when informing Tobias of the means of repelling the violent assaults of the evil demon, says: I will show thee who they are over whom the devil can prevail; for they who in such manner receive matrimony as to shut out God from themselves and from their mind, and to give themselves to their lust, as the horse and mule which have not understanding, over them the devil hath power. He then adds: Thou shalt take the virgin with the fear of the Lord, moved rather for love of children than for lust, that in the seed of Abraham thou mayest obtain a blessing in children. It was also for this reason that God instituted marriage from the beginning; and therefore married persons who, to prevent conception or procure abortion, have recourse to medicine, are guilty of a most heinous crime nothing less than wicked conspiracy to commit murder.

A third reason has been added, as a consequence of the fall of our first parents. On account of the loss of original innocence the passions began to rise in rebellion against right reason; and man, conscious of his own frailty and unwilling to fight the battles of the flesh, is supplied by marriage with an antidote by which to avoid sins of lust. For fear of fornication, says the Apostle, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband; and a little after, having recommended to married persons a temporary abstinence from the marriage debt, to give themselves to prayer, he adds: Return together again, lest Satan tempt you for your incontinency.

These are ends, some one of which, those who desire to contract marriage piously and religiously, as becomes the children of the Saints, should propose to themselves. If to these we add other causes which induce to contract marriage, and, in choosing a wife, to prefer one person to another, such as the desire of leaving an heir, wealth, beauty, illustrious descent, congeniality of disposition such motives, because not inconsistent with the holiness of marriage, are not to be condemned. We do not find that the Sacred Scriptures condemn the Patriarch Jacob for having chosen Rachel for her beauty, in preference to Lia.

The preceding is from the Catechism of Trent. Those are reasons why a Catholic man should marry.
 
My husband, who is not devout, believes that marriage is the most stable relationship in which to raise his children. He believes that his daily presences creates a profound, positive, long lasting impacts on their lives.

He has three sisters whom are all divorced, and the dads sort of wandered away, and did not have the same investment in the children as when they were living in the home. He has mostly nephews, and the results were, in ALL cases (five boys, altogether) disastrous. He believes that a constant, warm nurturing male presence is equally important for daughters, and we have a confident, well adjusted teen daughter who is the light of his life.

He KNOWS his value as a dad. That is a big reason he values marriage. However, we get hit so hard in taxes, if we hadn’t been planning a family, he would have not wanted to marry, had I let him get away with that.
 
This is confusing to me. It seems to me that a married woman is part of her family. Loving her job and career would, I imagine, help her to be happy which would in turn, I hope, add to the happiness of the family as a whole.
Women can have jobs and careers in both the waged and non-waged labor markets (as can men). Would you suggest that a woman who loves raising her children or cooking or cleaning for her family will be a detriment to her family? Is it better for a family to have one of its members miserable in his or her career?:confused:
May God bless all who labor. Amen.
I see what you are saying also. I think where I’m going wrong is that I’m being too subjective and not really doing a good job at explaining where I’m coming from.

When I said a woman loving her job and her career, I mean that her love for that career or job has taken over, triumphed over her love for her family as in that career is her end goal, be all, to the point that she is not fulfilling her duty as a wife and mother. When I quoted “My Catholic Faith” book, I was trying to point out that if a woman is married her first priority should always be (other than her walk with Christ) her husband and family. But I think from what I have observed in modern life is that the job or career always has a way of interfering, demanding. I think in my mind as I see it it would be better that a woman not have a career or job so that she may not have those temptations. I do realize it can be a necessity these days for a married woman to work, however I do think there are lots of women who don’t cater to what should be their first priority- or that the role of being a housewife has gone slack, and thus causing problems.

Basically too I’ve been looking into both Protestant and Catholic ideologies about marriage and all of this has been a reflection of pondering these thoughts. One of those ideologies are that women should not be in the workforce. (I’m not saying I agree with it, only that I’ve been exploring that issue.)

Anyway, this has all been really good for me to discuss as I’ve had these questions before but they never quite came to the surface, always lingering down deep. I thank everyone for their contribution as its given me quite a lot of things to think about. Thanks for letting me inquire.
 
I see what you are saying also. I think where I’m going wrong is that I’m being too subjective and not really doing a good job at explaining where I’m coming from.

When I said a woman loving her job and her career, I mean that her love for that career or job has taken over, triumphed over her love for her family as in that career is her end goal, be all, to the point that she is not fulfilling her duty as a wife and mother. When I quoted “My Catholic Faith” book, I was trying to point out that if a woman is married her first priority should always be (other than her walk with Christ) her husband and family. But I think from what I have observed in modern life is that the job or career always has a way of interfering, demanding. I think in my mind as I see it it would be better that a woman not have a career or job so that she may not have those temptations. I do realize it can be a necessity these days for a married woman to work, however I do think there are lots of women who don’t cater to what should be their first priority- or that the role of being a housewife has gone slack, and thus causing problems.

Basically too I’ve been looking into both Protestant and Catholic ideologies about marriage and all of this has been a reflection of pondering these thoughts. One of those ideologies are that women should not be in the workforce. (I’m not saying I agree with it, only that I’ve been exploring that issue.)

Anyway, this has all been really good for me to discuss as I’ve had these questions before but they never quite came to the surface, always lingering down deep. I thank everyone for their contribution as its given me quite a lot of things to think about. Thanks for letting me inquire.
Shouldn’t a husband’s priority also be his wife and children? Of course it is never good when a job becomes the proverbial golden calf. But when both spouses work, both contribute to the household chores, both cook, and both carefor the kids.
 
Shouldn’t a husband’s priority also be his wife and children? Of course it is never good when a job becomes the proverbial golden calf. But when both spouses work, both contribute to the household chores, both cook, and both carefor the kids.
You know, I mostly took a spousal view on things, but next I guess I could get into what the needs of the children are. I really don’t believe it is healthy for kids to be raised in daycare, despite what some studies have shown. There is also another question a friend of mine brought to my attention. She is not catholic now but was raised by a very catholic mother who said that when a woman takes a job, she takes it away from a man who has a family. I thought that was really poignant. My friend dismisses it, but when she said that it was a point I had never heard of before. All you hear about on the news is how much ‘job growth’ and 'creating new jobs" is so important. I started to wonder…if all women stayed in the home, would we have that problem? Would there be enough jobs to go around?

Anyway, I feel I’ve stretched this thread out all over the place. :o
 
When I said a woman loving her job and her career, I mean that her love for that career or job has taken over, triumphed over her love for her family as in that career is her end goal, be all, to the point that she is not fulfilling her duty as a wife and mother. When I quoted “My Catholic Faith” book, I was trying to point out that if a woman is married her first priority should always be (other than her walk with Christ) her husband and family. But I think from what I have observed in modern life is that the job or career always has a way of interfering, demanding. I think in my mind as I see it it would be better that a woman not have a career or job so that she may not have those temptations. I do realize it can be a necessity these days for a married woman to work, however I do think there are lots of women who don’t cater to what should be their first priority- or that the role of being a housewife has gone slack, and thus causing problems.
A couple of people have already pointed this out, but men put their careers before family sometimes, too. It’s not really a gender-specific thing. It’s a problem whether a man or a woman does it.

I think EasterJoy’s post awhile back, about “the job of one is the job of both”, would be beneficial for you to ponder a bit further. In a healthy marriage, a shared future prompts both spouses to always do what is best for their family. That will mean different things to different couples, based on their education levels, earning potential, desire to work in a particular field or take care of the household, current financial situation, strengths and abilities, and so on. However work is divided, and whether it is inside or outside of the home, both spouses see the other’s work as their own. There is no 50/50 attitude, and no task is beneath either spouse. You rejoice in one another’s success and support each other when things don’t go well. When one is sick, the other picks up the slack. When one has to work late and misses dinner, the other considers that he or she is doing their best at work for the good of the family. And in addition to all that, things are always changing. People lose jobs, get sick, have a difficult pregnancy, change locations, have to manage caring for children, caring for aging parents, and so forth, and a shared trajectory and willingness to adapt to the situation, and figure out together where God is leading your family is essential. Saying that women do not belong in the workforce is neither a Catholic idea nor practical for many families. As long as a couple puts God first and allows Him to lead their family, the specifics of how they do that, so long as it’s not against Church teaching, do not matter.
 
You know, I mostly took a spousal view on things, but next I guess I could get into what the needs of the children are. I really don’t believe it is healthy for kids to be raised in daycare, despite what some studies have shown. There is also another question a friend of mine brought to my attention. She is not catholic now but was raised by a very catholic mother who said that when a woman takes a job, she takes it away from a man who has a family. I thought that was really poignant. My friend dismisses it, but when she said that it was a point I had never heard of before. All you hear about on the news is how much ‘job growth’ and 'creating new jobs" is so important. I started to wonder…if all women stayed in the home, would we have that problem? Would there be enough jobs to go around?

Anyway, I feel I’ve stretched this thread out all over the place. :o
My experience, looking at our situation and that of friends and relatives, is that it pays to be ready and it pays to be flexible. Each spouse needs to be ready to do whatever the family needs, including doing what he or she would not do if he or she had the choice. If a woman needs to take a paying job when she and her husband would rather that at least one of them could be home with the kids, well, there is no use grieving over it. The same goes if one of them has to give up career prospects because it is better for the children if they work less, or not for a paycheck at all. If the husband punishes himself because his salary won’t provide all that the family needs or the wife punishes herself because the children are in daycare, it doesn’t help the children. I have seen it very often that the wife has a job because the husband’s job, while a good one, doesn’t provide health insurance. They can’t just leave the family without that, and hope for the best. So she goes to work… Que sera, sera.

When a woman has no marketable skills, the family has no safety net if the father cannot work. If that is by choice, then she has made herself incapable as a help mate in what could be a role that is vital for her family. Even if she never has a paying job, a woman who is willing and able to take a job if the family needs her to can take pressure off of her husband that can otherwise rob him of a lot of sleep.

Also, there are some women who do not do their children so much good by staying home as other women do, too. Some people, male and female alike, simply do not cope well with caring for their children all day, every day. Children pick up on that, too. These are things for the couple to work out. It does no good to look over their shoulders about it.

As for the woman who says “when a woman takes a job, she takes it away from a man who has a family”, well, IMHO, she needs to mind her own business. Why don’t we say, too, that when one of us has more than we can get by with, we take away from someone who is doing without? We are bound to love our neighbor, but the doctrines of justice do not go so far as to forbid those who would work from finding work and realizing a gain for their families. A husband and wife ought to be able to support their family as they see fit. After all, the “ideal wife” of Proverbs is out there buying vineyards and providing for her family, not waiting for her husband to do all of that for her. If there are not enough jobs to support all the families, then that is something for society to address, but not at the expense of someone who would work for the good of her family doing without, and no guarantees that the job she did not take will do some other family more good than the good that employment would have brought into hers.
 
You know, I mostly took a spousal view on things, but next I guess I could get into what the needs of the children are. I really don’t believe it is healthy for kids to be raised in daycare, despite what some studies have shown. There is also another question a friend of mine brought to my attention. She is not catholic now but was raised by a very catholic mother who said that when a woman takes a job, she takes it away from a man who has a family. I thought that was really poignant. My friend dismisses it, but when she said that it was a point I had never heard of before. All you hear about on the news is how much ‘job growth’ and 'creating new jobs" is so important. I started to wonder…if all women stayed in the home, would we have that problem? Would there be enough jobs to go around?

Anyway, I feel I’ve stretched this thread out all over the place. :o
Perhaps you should read what Blessed JPII had to say:

vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_letters/documents/hf_jp-ii_apl_15081988_mulieris-dignitatem_en.html

and

vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/letters/documents/hf_jp-ii_let_29061995_women_en.html
 
Matthew 6:24
“No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money.”

(note here some versions instead of “money” say “mammon” others say “wealth” and others say “riches”- I note that because its not just about dollar bills. Wealth and riches imply luxury, having things.)

And this I don’t understand when it comes to modern women. They say that they can have it all. They have a boss (from their career) and a husband (and children). They say they can juggle this fine, but I would not be able to. If I marry, I am HIS. I can’t be his and also my boss’s. ** If I set it up that way, one of them is going to be shortchanged- severely.** I would then be working for TWO masters and like Christ said, I’m going to either love one and hate the other or vise verse… Or maybe just hate them both because I’m being burned at two ends of the candle, so to speak. (Please, no jokes about being a slave to a man- master is just another word for the one over me, and a husband is the head of the household.)
I think you may be exaggerating the boss somewhat, although I can see why. Corporations tend to be rather voracious and their appetite will not be satiated with a mere quota of hours of time spent doing their work. They tend to be more total, like a totalitarian state. Some of them, if they could, would organise your private life, design your living space, claim the ad space on your private car and your purse and your jacket, they require “enthusiasm” (self-motivation, availability and other code words for “we own you”) and not just good work. But it’s possible to work in a way which is working to live and not living to work.

This said, life’s obviously going to be hard for a family in which both parents want to work 10-12 hours a day in high-stress conditions, take work home and work their hands off trying to climb the ladder of promotion and advancement. (Or even one person does that.)

But taking orders from a boss, as in accepting your daily workload or some assignments to carry out, or working under somebody’s direction or supervision, is not something that I’d see as a source of conflict of duties.
It would seem to me that for a married woman working they would be serving money and not God. I believe that a married woman should be the helpmeet for her husband- all of her exists for working on behalf of her husband. That is her job. I don’t understand this modern idea that well, husband and wife are equals/partners or the idea that a woman should be able to fulfill herself outside of marriage in a career.
Career obsession is wrong regardless of your sex, and Christian life is not about egoistically (or narrowly, shallowly) understood fulfilment, but it is not necessarily a life of self-inflicted misery. There is nothing wrong with having an education, a responsible job, a rewarding role in the society. (As much as I’m not a fan of situations where a prominent woman has a follower husband, that always feels wrong to me.) And man and woman are indeed partners and equals. This does not precluding him being in charge. But a unilateral master-servant dynamic would be alien to marriage. If a man wants a servant, he can hire one. A woman is the lady of her house.

Leadership doesn’t mean the person who’s leading must be put on an exaggeratedly high plane, while the other person put down. For example, in the military, a general gives orders not only to privates and sergeants but also to colonels (and sometimes to generals who have less seniority or simply didn’t get the appointment to lead the operation). In academic projects you can have two professors working with one of them being the leader, for example when he has a bit more tenure or a bit more prominent professional reputation but they’re basically equal otherwise. On a construction yard, a foreman calls the shots when necessary but everybody’s pals and there’s no Byzantine ceremony.

Same way, a wife is not in the position of a cotton planter’s unfree concubine.
And isn’t it kind of like a slap in the face to the man if he provides and she doesn’t want to stay within the home and work on his behalf? And instead she is tied up with her own business, not fully attending to him and his needs and the needs of children?
That has much to do with societal perceptions rather than true morality. There is no religious tenet that the man must personally repair the leaking taps or the light that goes off, while the woman must personally cook, clean, do laundry etc. Still, many people see it that way, being influenced by the dominant perceptions of the social middle class. If a man wants his needs tended, he can (apart from getting over himself, which would be the advisable course of action if he finds himself after an ego boost from being waited on by someone else) hire an assistant, a maid, an errand boy, a butler (if some wealthy type of guy) etc. This is different from taking care of each other.
IS this really ‘egotistical’ of a man to want to wish that his wife would dedicate herself to him?
I’d think so. Especially if he wanted total dedication from the woman while himself looking to discharge his duties by bringing home the paycheck and then being left alone or pampered by everybody.

I have a man in my family who’s very much the traditional man. He retired earlier than his wife (being a couple of years older than she plus maybe another reason or two), he does the shopping and cooks now and finds great joy in making sure his wife has a hot dinner after coming back from work. No less of a man for that! (Rather the opposite.)
 
Is it not said that if a Christian starts to dedicate themselves to other things that are not God that this displeases Him?
Not everybody is called to be a monastic! (That is to say literally give everything in that sense.)
If we work for something other than Him, isn’t this idolatry?
Absolutely not or else we would all need to be employed by the parish or the diocese. Our work is for God in a less literal sense, which applies also to men and women equally. We work to serve others, in which we serve God. We serve our bosses, in that we serve God. We work to feed and clothe our families and tend to their other needs, in that we serve God. There is nothing wrong in acquiring new skills and abilities and trying to grow professionally, taking responsibility for more or bigger things. Obsessions with career or prestige or wealth are wrong. This said, some saints say we should perform our work (that being the mundane salaried work we do for a living) as if we were working for God Himself.
If we are lukewarm about serving- this also displeases, right?
True, but again, not everybody is called to be a monastic, literally leave the world, focus on prayer exclusively etc. We need secular vocations for earth to continue, you know. 😉
 
I am glad the Church does not say that a woman must be the wife you want to be. A woman does not stop being a person in her own right when she marries.
Hey, let’s not push a woman around in a discussion when criticising the pushing around of women in marriage! 😉
Studies have shown time and time again that married men are healthier and live longer than single men. Obviously marriage is good for them.
I remember hearing about a study that showed that men who had to live with a shrew lived longer than those who had an agreeable wife. Something in the range of 10 years. While I don’t mind a difficult personality in a great personality, I’d gladly give 10 years not to have to live with someone who’s plain mean.
 
Thanks so far for your posts… I am taking them in consideration. As far as men having authority over women not being Catholic doctrine, would you find documentation of that for me and post that here? In the meantime, I will do my homework as well and look it up.
The traditional marital roles with the husband as main provider and head of the family have been taught by the Magisterium (including the Catechism of the Council of Trent) and by several Popes (including Leo XIII, 19th century, Piux XI, 20th century, and Pius XII, 20th century).

The following is an excellent discussion of these teachings and the theology which underpins it…

The Authority of the Husband According to the Magisterium[Family Life Center], by Rev. Paul N. Check.

Two of many quotes…
Quando alcuni (September 10, 1941) deals specifically with this theme. The Pope begins by saying that every well-ordered society must have a leader, whose authority ultimately comes from God. God initially gave that authority to Adam, who was formed first, followed by Eve, who was to be subject to her husband. The implication here is that the authority of the husband existed in the state of original justice, resting in part on the order in which man and woman were created (cf. St. Thomas Aquinas in Chapter Three). The Pope then refers to the post-Fall condition of women in Genesis 3:16 ("…yet your desire shall be for your husband and he shall rule over you") before exhorting Christian wives and mothers never to be “taken off guard by the desire to wield the sceptre in the family. Let your sceptre [be] the sceptre of love.”
Leo XIII (Rerum novarum), Pius XI (Casti connubii), and Pius XII (Quando alcuni) all clearly indicate that** the magisterial teaching regarding God’s plan for the family order, and specifically for the husband’s authority within the family, is not and cannot be subject to revision over time** (cf. Bl. Edith Stein, Hans Urs von Balthasar and Germain Grisez). It is something that God has willed for the good of the spouses. Through the use of reason, the hierarchy within the family can be discovered in nature. Revelation confirms that hierarchy. The husband’s authority, like all true authority, is ordered toward service. In particular, the husband’s authority–as the Magisterium teaches it is to be understood and exercised–serves the unity and indissolubility of Marriage, as well as the material and spiritual well-being of all family members. In both the order of creation and in the order of redemption, men and women are equal in personal dignity, but complementary in role or function.
Anyway, I feel I’ve stretched this thread out all over the place. :o
It’s been a great discussion. Thanks, AnneElizabeth, and all posters.
 
Hey, let’s not push a woman around in a discussion when criticising the pushing around of women in marriage! 😉

I remember hearing about a study that showed that men who had to live with a shrew lived longer than those who had an agreeable wife. Something in the range of 10 years. While I don’t mind a difficult personality in a great personality, I’d gladly give 10 years not to have to live with someone who’s plain mean.
Yes, better no spouse than a mean spouse.

Really, ten years longer? Or maybe it appears to be longer.
 
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Edmundus1581:
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The traditional marital roles with the husband as main provider and head of the family
The Magisterium speaks clearly on the second; less so on the first assuming you mean materially. Do you have a current/recent reference?
 
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