What is man's incentive to marry?

[severus68]

Neither women nor men share a hive mind. Neither gender are the ‘gatekeepers’ of sexuality. People need to learn that they have all the free will to make their own decisions,which they should not then blame on another person, much less an entire gender.

Exactly!

 

[severus68]

.

Not what I said, at all. Women should listen to her husband, not ALL men. They’re not married to ALL men.

If you only talk about one gender, its easy to assume that you think only women are to blame.

I wasn’t talking about ALL wives. I was talking about what the media says we’re supposed to think about porn. That it is harmless and that men need sexual outlet if their wife isn’t giving it to them. But that this is not the truth and the reason so many have bad marriages.

I am confused and will read your post again. So, it was about the media talking about some wives or all wives?
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[styrgwillidar]

I know your experience has been bad and I sympathise. However, I think you are making rather unfair generalisations about women. I have placed in bold one.

There is also your statement about your son. Why would your son think like that? That is very sad.

Severus- the first thing you bolded is based on statistics, that’s just what the data shows. It’s not my opinion, it’s what happens. There are exceptions like my father. Raised by a single mom in a large city under very difficult conditions. I have never met a finer person, there are always exceptions to the statistics. As I alluded to, the same may hold true for single dads raising kids, but there’s not much data. One of the issues with being a single parent is do I get involved with a new partner? Statistics don’t show/break out if there is an improvement for kids raised by single parents who don’t date, vice those who do. I do know my kids feel like they were an inconvenience for their mother, based on what she’s done.

My son thinks that because of experience. In some ways it is unfortunate that he is very bright, but he can detect inconsistencies in what people say and what they do. He observes actions/circumstances and comes to conclusions. Not only his own circumstances, but also those of his friends. The majority of whose parents are divorced as well. Several whose parents were never married in the first place. And he sees the various living circumstances they are in. He is the only one living full time with a father, or even spending a substantial amount of time with a father. My son is also the only one living with a parent who allows the other parent to visit in his home anytime. He understands that by my having custody and staying single, I make it much easier for him to have a relationship with his mom. To limit the awkwardness of her coming to visit, including my leaving while she’s there so they have time alone together.

He sees the bickering and custody games in other families, especially where no marriage occurred.

Every situation is unique, our personal experiences definitely place a filter on how we view things. Its why I think George Gilder’s book is worthwhile as kind of an independent anthropological view of marriage as a secular basis for society vice religious sacrament.

 

[severus68]

Severus- the first thing you bolded is based on statistics, that’s just what the data shows. It’s not my opinion, it’s what happens. There are exceptions like my father. Raised by a single mom in a large city under very difficult conditions. I have never met a finer person, there are always exceptions to the statistics. As I alluded to, the same may hold true for single dads raising kids, but there’s not much data. One of the issues with being a single parent is do I get involved with a new partner? Statistics don’t show/break out if there is an improvement for kids raised by single parents who don’t date, vice those who do. I do know my kids feel like they were an inconvenience for their mother, based on what she’s done.

My son thinks that because of experience. In some ways it is unfortunate that he is very bright, but he can detect inconsistencies in what people say and what they do. He observes actions/circumstances and comes to conclusions. Not only his own circumstances, but also those of his friends. The majority of whose parents are divorced as well. Several whose parents were never married in the first place. And he sees the various living circumstances they are in. He is the only one living full time with a father, or even spending a substantial amount of time with a father. My son is also the only one living with a parent who allows the other parent to visit in his home anytime. He understands that by my having custody and staying single, I make it much easier for him to have a relationship with his mom. To limit the awkwardness of her coming to visit, including my leaving while she’s there so they have time alone together.

He sees the bickering and custody games in other families, especially where no marriage occurred.

Every situation is unique, our personal experiences definitely place a filter on how we view things. Its why I think George Gilder’s book is worthwhile as kind of an independent anthropological view of marriage as a secular basis for society vice religious sacrament.

Are those stats for the US? What you have done and do for your children shows the great love you have for them.

 

[styrgwillidar]

Are those stats for the US? What you have done and do for your children shows the great love you have for them.

The studies I have read were for the US. Obviously, there’s a lot of controversy over the studies - politically incorrect to suggest that single parent households have negative consequences. Also, what could be a very accurate critique is the unknown of how the children would have turned out without the divorce? If the majority of divorces are due to abusive relationships, would these kids have been the same-- i.e. their view of male/female relationships twisted by observing their parents firsthand? Would they still have turned to drugs, alcohol, and other things?

I think there is much wisdom in the Church’s teaching. God knows us, how He made us. It is so tempting to rush into something to combat the loneliness, fill that void of being part of a team. Having to go through the nullity process, committing oneself to the sacrament, helps to keep one rushing into things that while appealing in the short term could be very damaging in the long term.

 

[newbetx]

Because it is often men who are pressuring women to have sex. Just this past week I had a fellow tell me: “I respect your choice to be chaste but honestly us guys have sexual urges and I just couldn’t live that life.”

The responsibility is placed on women because too many women feel they HAVE to have sex or they will be passed up for another woman who WILL have sex.

But mostly the focus of my comment was on women because I AM a woman and I know far too many females who put out because they think no guy will ever want them if they don’t.

Sad, but so true… and today, if a woman isn’t interested in having sex for the sake of having it, they are, by most in society, considered… well, sick in the head. So sad, and so true. We live in a culture that sets us up to fail by telling us that by doing the things that cause us to fail, we will somehow, succeed.

And to make some excuses for us guys… Our culture implies to us that women want us “experienced.” But guess what? That expectation never really came from women. Such is the culture of Lies.

So without going into details, my incentive was to have children in a loving, stable, committed for life, relationship. However, today’s society speaks more about what you GET rather than what you give. A proper marriage is about sacrifice. The Gay Marriage drive (as I understand it) is about benefits. Sadly, too many people getting married today are about what they get and not what they give. Without an understanding of the true purpose of marriage, people will continue to move in and out of relationships without the proper level of commitment or understanding that the original intent was to create a well defined family unit. One that could continue to naturally reproduce and maintain itself over time.

What do we do to turn this around? Well, one thing that I can think of is to spread the word about Theology of the Body. Nicky, if you gave your friends “Theology of the Body for Beginners” would you think they would like it? Would they give it to the men in their lives and say, if you want to go to bed with me, you’ll read this first… would they? Really, sure, some guys would pack it up, but most would be happy to have understanding how the bar was just raised. I believe they would “man up.”

 

[AnneElizabeth]

I was responding point by point to what the poster said.

Yeah, I realize that, but I didn’t understand what you were trying to say, that’s all. I just wanted to hear what you had to share put differently so that I could understand where you are coming from.

 

[AnneElizabeth]

Neither women nor men share a hive mind. Neither gender are the ‘gatekeepers’ of sexuality. People need to learn that they have all the free will to make their own decisions,which they should not then blame on another person, much less an entire gender.

I agree with what you are saying, I just wanted to chime in and say that I think that people have always thought as women as the gatekeepers of sexuality since it was expected a woman would not go that route due to the fact she has much to loose if she gets pregnant.

A woman in those days would not give herself so freely as women may do today because of birth control/abortion. So that may be why it was thought of as such. It was just expected that women WOULD be the gatekeepers of sexuality because of that reason. And I do still think women are expected, and frankly most women DO because we do know the consequences of premarital sex.

 

[Lets_Evolve]

Tax incentives

A few years ago I asked my tax advisor, How can I save on tax’s
Get married…buy a house…have a child.
And I did in that order in the same year (I don’t recommend it in that same year.)

 

[Walking_Home]

Originally Posted by JaneGrey View Post

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That just throws women – under a bus – and gives the men a pass-- to not be accountable/responsible for their own acts.

 

[severus68]

I agree with what you are saying, I just wanted to chime in and say that I think that people have always thought as women as the gatekeepers of sexuality since it was expected a woman would not go that route due to the fact she has much to loose if she gets pregnant.

A woman in those days would not give herself so freely as women may do today because of birth control/abortion. So that may be why it was thought of as such. It was just expected that women WOULD be the gatekeepers of sexuality because of that reason. And I do still think women are expected, and frankly most women DO because we do know the consequences of premarital sex.

I would think most men know to he consequences of premarital sex. Who expects women to be the gatekeepers and why do they please?

 

[nickybr38]

I would think most men know to he consequences of premarital sex. Who expects women to be the gatekeepers and why do they please?

Women are the gatekeepers because women have more to lose.

Men cannot get pregnant. Men have no real consequences from sex, beyond STD’s. Women, however, can get pregnant and if they chose to have an abortion they end up with blood on their hands to top it off.

Women SHOULD be the gatekeepers because they simply have more on the line.

 

[Walking_Home]

Women are the gatekeepers because women have more to lose.

Men cannot get pregnant. Men have no real consequences from sex, beyond STD’s. Women, however, can get pregnant and if they chose to have an abortion they end up with blood on their hands to top it off.

Women SHOULD be the gatekeepers because they simply have more on the line.

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Again – men are equally responsible for their part. Women end up with the short end of the stick – because of the blind eye/the pass men are give – to not be accountable/responsible for their own acts.

 

[Regular_Atheist]

Sex.

 

[EasterJoy]

Sex.

I was told (I am not making this up): Sex when I get old. He was afraid that if he didn’t marry, he’d get too old to attract anyone but someone who wanted to be married.

 

[styrgwillidar]

… Men have no real consequences from sex, beyond STD’s…

Well, other than being financially responsible for the kid for 18 years with virtually no say in how they’re raised, or any control over access. Or any say whether the child even lives if the mom wants an abortion. Heck, he doesn’t even have the right to be notified that his partner including his own wife is pregnant and chooses to have an abortion. (On the other hand, men have to get their wives to sign off on vasectomies in many jurisdictions)

There are consequences for men, and they know it. The ones who don’t care and don’t want responsibilities support abortion/birth control since it makes it easier for men to use women as toys and playthings as opposed to respected partners.

 

[severus68]

Women are the gatekeepers because women have more to lose.

Men cannot get pregnant. Men have no real consequences from sex, beyond STD’s. Women, however, can get pregnant and if they chose to have an abortion they end up with blood on their hands to top it off.

Women SHOULD be the gatekeepers because they simply have more on the line.

That is the same old, same old, arguement to justify shoving all responsibility on women and letting men behave like irresponsible children.

Thank goodness that many men take responsibility for their own actions.

 

[carn]

Another question then… with so many men being atheist or agnostic, why would they marry?

Is life generally a good idea?

No → You’re not a man, but a wimpy loser whining about trivial problems most man you had as ancestors would never have spent a second worrying about - go home to mummy or be serious and jump of the next bridge.

Yes->
Shouldnt it then continue somehow at least until the suns lifetime ends?

No-> You’re not a man, but an illogical idiot.

Yes->
Shouldn’t then somebody have kids?

No-> See one above, though even worse, fetch a bio book and learn reading.

Yes->
Ok, what about you having some?

No-> You’re not a man, but a weeping coward unfit to face a two year old with full diapers

Yes->
Ok, you need some women’s consent for success in that regard?

No-> You’re not a man, but some lesser life form between virus and bacteria lacking gender and asking for extermination

Yes->
Ok, do you need to offer some romance-stability-trust-reliability-and so on women nonesense to convince some women about this idea?

No → Thats unlikely to be a women you are trying to convince.

Yes->
You know how to show her that romance stuff?

Yes-> you’re are probably deluding yourself, but good luck anyway

No->Ask her to marry you, that includes enough romance-stability-trust-reliability-women stuff in the package that it will satisfy her for years to come, as long as you remember to be polite, not drink too much, bring her flowers and not look after after women.

As i showed the options for being a living atheistic or agnostic man and avoiding the issue of marriage completly are somewhat limited.

Wouldn’t we see the number of people getting married drop as more and more men don’t believe in God?

We see that, though i would take issue with the claim we see the number of men getting married drop, the number of men is dwindling.

 

[nickybr38]

That is the same old, same old, arguement to justify shoving all responsibility on women and letting men behave like irresponsible children.

Thank goodness that many men take responsibility for their own actions.

I am not saying men shouldn’t take responsibility for their actions, I’m saying women have more at stake.

I’ve seen it again and again and again and again in life.

Women need to be taught to guard their sexuality and men need to be taught to respect women.

 

[Walking_Home]

I am not saying men shouldn’t take responsibility for their actions, I’m saying women have more at stake.

I’ve seen it again and again and again and again in life.

Women need to be taught to guard their sexuality and men need to be taught to respect women.

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Both women and men need to be taught to guard their sexuality and to respect. It applies equally to both. The erroneous ideology of women as “gatekeepers” shifts responsibility/accountability away from the men – and piles it onto women.