What is man's incentive to marry?

[AnneElizabeth]

Natural and Sacramental marriages are both recognized by the Church as valid, civil marriages are in a completely different category (although they are admittedly related). It is possible for two people to be truly and validly married in a natural marriage even if they are not civily or sacramentally married. Natural marriage is essentially just a mutual complete and unconditional comitment. This can exist between two people who are not civilly married.

Can you point me towards a reference in the catechism that states that natural marriages are recognized by the church as valid?

I’m having a hard time wrapping my mind around the fact that church says sex outside of wedlock is fornication and sin, but sex inside a natural marriage is not sin. ??? At what point- how many years of living together- does it take to make it ok? Why is civil marriage considered less than natural marriage?

I do understand that two people can commit themselves to each other and make vows to God to do so, as that is essentially what a marriage is. If that is what people are doing these days, without being within a church to do so, then why do I hear so much talk about how wrong it is?

 

[AnneElizabeth]

lifesitenews.com/news/young-men-giving-up-on-marriage-women-arent-women-anymore

?

 

[thewanderer]

Can you point me towards a reference in the catechism that states that natural marriages are recognized by the church as valid?

I’m having a hard time wrapping my mind around the fact that church says sex outside of wedlock is fornication and sin, but sex inside a natural marriage is not sin. ??? At what point- how many years of living together- does it take to make it ok? Why is civil marriage considered less than natural marriage?

I do understand that two people can commit themselves to each other and make vows to God to do so, as that is essentially what a marriage is. If that is what people are doing these days, without being within a church to do so, then why do I hear so much talk about how wrong it is?

Its not a matter of number of years living together or anything like that. The thing is that only a marriage between two baptized people is a sacramental marriage, however, that doesn’t mean that Abraham and Sarah, for example, were not married. Basically, a sacramental marriage is a natural marriage with an added sacramental element because both parties are baptized.

Here is a quote from the CCC:

1638 "From a valid marriage arises a bond between the spouses which by its very nature is perpetual and exclusive; furthermore, in a Christian marriage the spouses are strengthened and, as it were, consecrated for the duties and the dignity of their state by a special sacrament."140

Souce: vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P54.HTM

While it doesn’t call the valid marriage a natural marriage, it is clearly saying that not all valid marriages are sacramental, and so that there is a difference between a valid (natural) marriage, and a sacramental marriage. The Church recognizes marriages between non-Christians as valid, but not sacramental, so long as the requirements for a valid marriage (which do not require being civilly married) have been met. This is what I have been calling a natural marriage.

 

[VirtusTransitus]

This is why some folks can get marriages convalidated even when one partner is agnostic or athiest.

Valid, but not sacramental.

 

[thewanderer]

This is why some folks can get marriages convalidated even when one partner is agnostic or athiest.

Valid, but not sacramental.

Actually,I think that if a marriage is valid then it does not need to be convalidated. But if you want to be sure I would go to the liturgy and sacraments forums and ask there, there are some very knowledgable people on that forum.

 

[VirtusTransitus]

Actually,I think that if a marriage is valid then it does not need to be convalidated. But if you want to be sure I would go to the liturgy and sacraments forums and ask there, there are some very knowledgable people on that forum.

You’re correct.

I was speaking (apparently unclearly…) of a situation where a marriage outside the church can become valid (but not sacramental) though convalidation if one of the parties is Catholic and the other is unbaptized (agnostic, athiest, etc.). There are requirements, but it can be done.

 

[thewanderer]

You’re correct.

I was speaking (apparently unclearly…) of a situation where a marriage outside the church can become valid (but not sacramental) though convalidation if one of the parties is Catholic and the other is unbaptized (agnostic, athiest, etc.). There are requirements, but it can be done.

Got it

 

[silentfactor80]

Sexual relations are extremely important to men, and they are possessive. That’s why. Plus there is the religious component.

Sexual relations are not the only thing guys care about. That’s just feminist garbage used to make women hate men. A man likes to feel appreciated and to be quiet honest that matters to me more than anything else. I was in a relationship with a girl that was promising all sort of wild and crazy sex (after marriage of coarse) yet the relationship died 2 months because she failed to appreciate me. I am now engaged to a wonderful woman that appreciates me and I’d stand by her sex or no sex. These days a woman that appreciates a man is a dream…better pinch myself.

And you think women aren’t possessive? Monopolizing ones beloved is not unique to the male gender honey! LOL is all I have to say!!

AnneElizabeth:

I agree, thanks. I have been pondering over all these posts.

I’m still not entirely clear on how a man leads or is the head of the couple. But I agree with you that it is and should be a joint effort to raise the family- and anyone steps in to do the job that is necessary.

There is no list of things a man does to be the head. God ultimately gives men the headship because of the Adam and Eve incident. Remember, creation didn’t go haywire until Adam ate the fruit. He then blamed Eve. God basically charged men with taking responsibility because that is what Adam was supposed to do. God used it as a teaching moment. God gives men the strength and focus to defend his family until death. Often times my fiancee is unable to make decisions when decisions need to be made. As a man I cannot just ignore those decisions and blame her when things go wrong. Being a leader isn’t always about telling people what to do. It is about inspiring people and picking up the slack when people don’t do what they are supposed to.

 

[silentfactor80]

Its ok… everyone is talking and I appreciate being able to listen. But, I have to say I am kind of sorry I started this thread- which I did with a little bit of bitterness/insecurity which was not right of me, but I just don’t understand what is going on today so I asked the question.

This thread, for some seems to have ripped open fresh wounds… (I’m sorry Joe of Cupertino that if in any way you feel that somehow what I’ve said was a put down towards men- I’m really trying to understand them and perhaps my frustration shows?) …which kind of goes back to why I am concerned about the sanctity of marriage being upheld. There seems to be a lot of wounded-ness when it comes to men/women relations. Perhaps it was always that way- but I kind of doubt it. ? Seems to me that the damage of pornography and now acceptance of premarital sex as ok and its occurrence have truly done its damage and the sad thing is that many (men and women) don’t realize the sheer volume of damage done OR that they themselves act out this ‘damage’.

I do see it that our refuge is in Christ to clear the confusion. Romans 8:28. That is our hope.

You raised a good point and don’t back down from it. The bottom line AnneElizabeth is that feminism has successfully convinced society that men are the enemy and we oppress women. Men don’t want to be seen as oppressors because we are protectors. Think about this logically. If a man sees himself as protector the only logical choice is to remove the oppressor which is himself. As a result guys retreat from the relationship sphere and all that is left is the guys that have no respect for themselves or the rest. If you want decent men to come out then call them out! Tell them what you find great about them and convince them they aren’t the horrible sub-humans feminism says they are. When you make a man feel respected only an act of God could keep him from you.

 

[AnneElizabeth]

You raised a good point and don’t back down from it. The bottom line AnneElizabeth is that feminism has successfully convinced society that men are the enemy and we oppress women. Men don’t want to be seen as oppressors because we are protectors. Think about this logically. If a man sees himself as protector the only logical choice is to remove the oppressor which is himself. As a result guys retreat from the relationship sphere and all that is left is the guys that have no respect for themselves or the rest. If you want decent men to come out then call them out! Tell them what you find great about them and convince them they aren’t the horrible sub-humans feminism says they are. When you make a man feel respected only an act of God could keep him from you.

I just want to thank you for this post. It has helped me greatly.

 

[Nimzovik]

It is indeed an interesting query the O.P. poses. I personally do not understand why a secular man would marry in view of the statistics of failed marriages, resultant psychologically hurt kids, an anti - male prejudiced lgeal system, etc. etc. etc…

**Feminism **is much to blame for such Misandry. For example see here:
youtube.com/watch?v=6ZAuqkqxk9A

Then there is Paternity** Fraud**
see here: youtube.com/watch?v=3Tonvjv-fJQ
Why this **crime **is not *prosecuted *is beyond me.

Such as the above (and many, many more reasons too numerous to enumerate here) has resulted in the growing M.G.T.O.W. organizations and the so called ‘Herbivorous Men.’

For Catholic men, who are lucky enough to find a Catholic woman that has Mother Mary as a role model it is a win, win situation.

 

[silentfactor80]

I just want to thank you for this post. It has helped me greatly.

You are very welcome. There is a blogger called ‘girlwriteswhat’ who talks a great deal about the misandry that is propagated by feminism. She can be a bit brash and doesn’t really get into spiritual stuff but she is a force to be reckoned with in defending men. That’s a lady I can take my hat off too. She has heart and courage. Those are both things that men can get into.

 

[silentfactor80]

It is indeed an interesting query the O.P. poses. I personally do not understand why a secular man would marry in view of the statistics of failed marriages, resultant psychologically hurt kids, an anti - male prejudiced lgeal system, etc. etc. etc…

**Feminism **is much to blame for such Misandry. For example see here:
youtube.com/watch?v=6ZAuqkqxk9A

Then there is Paternity** Fraud**
see here: youtube.com/watch?v=3Tonvjv-fJQ
Why this **crime **is not *prosecuted *is beyond me.

Such as the above (and many, many more reasons too numerous to enumerate here) has resulted in the growing M.G.T.O.W. organizations and the so called ‘Herbivorous Men.’

For Catholic men, who are lucky enough to find a Catholic woman that has Mother Mary as a role model it is a win, win situation.

Paternity fraud is not prosecuted because feminists control the legal system and won’t allow it to be a crime. Anything that makes a woman take responsibility is a non-starter in Feminism 101.

 

[Nimzovik]

Indeed! Just to show you how far it has gone…

youtube.com/watch?v=bdD-udSbNKI

Gee! Where is the *equality? *

See here: youtube.com/watch?v=flZoMLZgdUo

Then of course there is the laughter of the women on ‘The Talk’ that is dramatic evidence of the culture of bias against men orchestrated by Feminsts see here:

youtube.com/watch?v=wP4VeMJp9pE

What is even more horrific is the ‘apology’ the next day- see here:

youtube.com/watch?v=rYkuJXqLDkQ They are still laffing!! This is outrageous!!

Usually when this type of Feminist man hatred is brought up the response is 'NAFALT" (a verb) as in ‘she responded by NAFALTING.’ For a good definititon I would refer the reader to youtube and search for Girl Writes What - Nafalt. I caution that her language is not always …within excellent parameters of comportment.

Gee! What man would think marrying one of the women on ‘The Talk’ is a really swell idea?

Let’s be real here gentlemen. Feminism is sexism. Feminism (for the vast majority IMHO) is a ‘Hate Group.’
I would be glad to display even more links to buttress my assertion.

 

[silentfactor80]

Indeed! Just to show you how far it has gone…

youtube.com/watch?v=bdD-udSbNKI

Gee! Where is the *equality? *

See here: youtube.com/watch?v=flZoMLZgdUo

Then of course there is the laughter of the women on ‘The Talk’ that is dramatic evidence of the culture of bias against men orchestrated by Feminsts see here:

youtube.com/watch?v=wP4VeMJp9pE

What is even more horrific is the ‘apology’ the next day- see here:

youtube.com/watch?v=rYkuJXqLDkQ They are still laffing!! This is outrageous!!

Usually when this type of Feminist man hatred is brought up the response is 'NAFALT" (a verb) as in ‘she responded by NAFALTING.’ For a good definititon I would refer the reader to youtube and search for Girl Writes What - Nafalt. I caution that her language is not always …within excellent parameters of comportment.

Gee! What man would think marrying one of the women on ‘The Talk’ is a really swell idea?

Let’s be real here gentlemen. Feminism is sexism. Feminism (for the vast majority IMHO) is a ‘Hate Group.’
I would be glad to display even more links to buttress my assertion.

There actually is a website that says just that lol!! I bet I have more links than you saved though!

womenagainstmen.com/media/feminism-is-a-hate-group.html

 

[Nimzovik]

Hah!! Dems b fightin words!!

Yeah I got that link too!

Methinks men are finally wakin up. At least I hope so…

Here is a thought. Have you ever noticed how emasculated the writings of St. Paul have become in our very own church? Have you noticed that when the priest/deacon speaks of St Paul, the knee jerk, first asscociation response is to immediately say something to the effect that men are not to abuse and ‘lord it over women?’ Like we all just live to do that… Talk about the Anti - male Culture of Bias being successfully marketed!!

BTW - here is a good link too!

youtube.com/watch?v=CRCS6GGhIRc

Indeed! Here is what modern (non Catholic women, no doubt) women think about domestic violence. Just what** is** a (secular) man’s incentive to marry?

Someone please break it down for me! Please!

***Spread da word!! ***