What is Marriage?

[Indifferently]

With all this debate and discussion in the world about gay “marriage”, I feel that we as the Church have been on the backfoot instead of actually clearly laying out what Christian marriage is and means in its fullness. So, I ask you, what is Marriage?

 

[ConstantineTG]

Even the Apostolic Churches don’t agree on what marriage is. The Catholic understanding of marriage is different from the Orthodox.

 

[PrinceAnceints]

You didn’t think to ask the Holy Spirit this? You appear to be with Him, but you didn’t think to ask Him? Work with Him, He will work with you. Understanding is one of the Fruits of the Spirit and He is absolute truth. Ask Him, speak with Him. Do you even need Catholic Answers to find the answer to any question you might have. The Spirit within, the Spirit of God, would answer your questions if you would let Him.

Gay marriage is of satan. To God, Homosexal acts are a sin. You cannot serve God if you sin. God has made man “in His image”, and anything outside of that is not of God. It is of satan. And you can’t serve God if you serve satan. God wants us to be happy. And we are happiest when we are in full communions with God. That is why homosexual acts are a sin. They are not what God intends for man and if you do something that God does not want for you, you also lose the happiness that He wants for you.

The depths of God’s love is extreme. He knows what is best for you. If you reject that, God forbid, you accept satan and his worldly powers and the consequeses of that decision. And who is it that the Spirit could come to write this? A word to the wise.

 

[Reuben_J]

With all this debate and discussion in the world about gay “marriage”, I feel that we as the Church have been on the backfoot instead of actually clearly laying out what Christian marriage is and means in its fullness. So, I ask you, what is Marriage?

With due respect, the question asked is not apt and you seem to speak for a particular denomination. As different Christians denomination have different teaching on marriage your question, if you want a more fruitful answer, should be addressed to the denomination you are interested in, on how they view marriage.

As for the Catholic Church, we are very clear on what marriage is and constitutes. There is no problem there and our leaders speak on the sanctity of marriage even at the expense of being ridiculed by the secular world and thinking.

 

[SteveVH]

You didn’t think to ask the Holy Spirit this? You appear to be with Him, but you didn’t think to ask Him? Work with Him, He will work with you. Understanding is one of the Fruits of the Spirit and He is absolute truth. Ask Him, speak with Him. Do you even need Catholic Answers to find the answer to any question you might have. The Spirit within, the Spirit of God, would answer your questions if you would let Him.

May I ask, then, why you are here? It seems from your statement that you have no need for the Church, just you and the Holy Spirit. This is exactly the path that many Protestants have walked in their interpretation of Scripture. Just ask the Holy Spirit and you’ll get your answer. We know that this is simply not true or we would all be unified.

 

[ltwin]

You didn’t think to ask the Holy Spirit this? You appear to be with Him, but you didn’t think to ask Him? Work with Him, He will work with you. Understanding is one of the Fruits of the Spirit and He is absolute truth. Ask Him, speak with Him. Do you even need Catholic Answers to find the answer to any question you might have. The Spirit within, the Spirit of God, would answer your questions if you would let Him.

I think she was asking for educational and dialoguing purposes. This is the purpose to the non-Catholic forum, to find out what other people believe.

If you ask me, I believe marriage is the union between one man and one woman, lifelong and monogamous. This is the pattern that God created man in. In Genesis, we’re told that man will leave his father and mother and cleave to his wife and they become one soul. Two people in marriage become one, unified person. In marriage, man and woman complete each other, and they are able to fulfill God’s command to be fruitful and multiply.

 

[Reuben_J]

I think she was asking for educational and dialoguing purposes. This is the purpose to the non-Catholic forum, to find out what other people believe.

Isn’t it will be more efficient if the question is directed at one type of marriage - eg. Catholic marriage, Anglican marriage, etc.? I have personally participated on topic of this type, and the differences in each marriage can be quite staggering.

Anyway, go ahead.

 

[Indifferently]

With due respect, the question asked is not apt and you seem to speak for a particular denomination. As different Christians denomination have different teaching on marriage your question, if you want a more fruitful answer, should be addressed to the denomination you are interested in, on how they view marriage.

As for the Catholic Church, we are very clear on what marriage is and constitutes. There is no problem there and our leaders speak on the sanctity of marriage even at the expense of being ridiculed by the secular world and thinking.

Perhaps you should tell that to the Defender of the Bond, the losingest lawyer in the world.

 

[PrinceAnceints]

You people are such a waste of time. It amazes me that you have so much. You don’t deserve it.

 

[Reuben_J]

Perhaps you should tell that to the Defender of the Bond, the losingest lawyer in the world.

I don’t know about lawyers but I know about Catholic marriage. And that may be different from a marriage that you know of. So I am not too sure, what you really want for this thread. Do you want us to lay down the theology of marriage here as how we believe or what?

 

[MartinJordan]

If you ask me, I believe marriage is the union between one man and one woman, lifelong and monogamous. This is the pattern that God created man in. In Genesis, we’re told that man will leave his father and mother and cleave to his wife and they become one soul. Two people in marriage become one, unified person. In marriage, man and woman complete each other, and they are able to fulfill God’s command to be fruitful and multiply.

A deeper reading will show that in St. Paul’s connected discussion about husband and wife and The Church being the Bride of Christ. St. Paul doesn’t mention children. Eph. 5: 23-33

MJ

 

[SteveVH]

You people are such a waste of time. It amazes me that you have so much. You don’t deserve it.

Yep, sounds like you are definitely filled with the Holy Spirit.

 

[Reuben_J]

So, I ask you, what is Marriage?

You ask a Catholic, an Anglican, a Pentecostal, and Eastern Orthodox or Oriental, a Lutheran, a Baptist, a Mormon, a Muslim, a Hindu and a Buddhist, and you would get ten different answers on what a marriage is.

If you want to talk about defending lawyers who are basically based on secular law, what does that got to do with different types of marriages? So what is a marriage (your question)? It depends on who you are asking.

 

[Indifferently]

You ask a Catholic, an Anglican, a Pentecostal, and Eastern Orthodox or Oriental, a Lutheran, a Baptist, a Mormon, a Muslim, a Hindu and a Buddhist, and you would get ten different answers on what a marriage is.

If you want to talk about defending lawyers who are basically based on secular law, what does that got to do with different types of marriages? So what is a marriage (your question)? It depends on who you are asking.

The Defender of the Bond is not a secular lawyer. It is a position in a Roman Catholic ecclesiastical court.

 

[ltwin]

A deeper reading will show that in St. Paul’s connected discussion about husband and wife and The Church being the Bride of Christ. St. Paul doesn’t mention children. Eph. 5: 23-33

MJ

I agree. Of course marriage represents Christ’s relationship with the Church. It is profound and wonderful.

That being said, is anyone really questioning that marriage is the legitimate design for the procreation and raising of children?

 

[MartinJordan]

I agree. Of course marriage represents Christ’s relationship with the Church. It is profound and wonderful.

And Sacramental

That being said, is anyone really questioning that marriage is the legitimate design for the procreation and raising of children?

Point taken:thumbsup:

MJ

 

[Reuben_J]

The Defender of the Bond is not a secular lawyer. It is a position in a Roman Catholic ecclesiastical court.

OK. Thanks for the information. So you may want to confine this discussion to Catholic marriage? It is quite a big subject, is it not? We may be talking, passing each other as each may has different view of the marriage.

 

[benjohnson]

You people are such a waste of time. It amazes me that you have so much. You don’t deserve it.

Yes! We are a waste of time! We do have too much! We don’t deserve it!

Sinners, all of us! And yet God loves us poor creatures.

 

[josh987654321]

I apologise for the length of this reply.

With all this debate and discussion in the world about gay “marriage”, I feel that we as the Church have been on the backfoot instead of actually clearly laying out what Christian marriage is and means in its fullness. So, I ask you, what is Marriage?

Need an argument to oppose same sex marriage?

I recommend reading these -

Why Homosexual Unions Are Not Marriage’s - catholic.com/sites/default/files/why_homosexual_unions_are_not_marriages.pdf

Rebuttals to arguments for same sex marriage - osv.com/tabid/7621/itemid/10339/Rebuttals-to-arguments-for-samesex-marriage.aspx

• defendthefamily.com/_docs/resources/9707137.pdf

You ask a Catholic, an Anglican, a Pentecostal, and Eastern Orthodox or Oriental, a Lutheran, a Baptist, a Mormon, a Muslim, a Hindu and a Buddhist, and you would get ten different answers on what a marriage is.

None of which would include same sex though (A very right winged one might).

Your definatly correct though Reuben J, thats what got us into this mess in the first place I think, people keep dropping the bar on marriage and ultimatley society will be the worse off for it.

.

What this really comes down to, is whether or not you think the sexual acts of homosexuality is moral and ought to be advocated for society. It’s whether or not you think that the sexual acts of homosexuality are equivalent to the sexual act of heterosexuals thats targeted towards procreation.

We must remember that same sex marriage doesn’t legalise a homosexual union, it recognises it as equivalent to a heterosexual union, it equates the sexual acts of homosexuality with moral family life.

I have nothing against homosexuals, Im simply against the sexual acts of homosexuality being “encouraged” and “normalised” with same sex marriage.

I would never throw stones or anything if a homosexual gave into such desires out of weakness, however I will be in opposition when they try to claim that such acts are no longer immoral.

Mathew 19:4-6

4 “Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’ 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’? 6 So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”

Revelation 17:1-5

17 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:

2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.

3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

5 And upon her forehead was a name written, Mystery, Babylon The Great, The Mother Of Harlots And Abominations Of The Earth.

Leviticus 18:22

22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

I brought up Leviticus 18:22 to show that in the time period when “revelation” was written, the sexual acts of homosexuality was labelled as “abomination” which is mentioned several times in revelation.

Now I am not saying that it is the end of the world or anything, but the more sexually immoral our society becomes, the closer this will be and those who are in favor of same sex marriage are advocating it.

I would also like to say that the people we need to reach most of all are Chrsitians I think, because Christians are apparently the largest supporters of same sex marriage and It is thoroughly ahistorical to imagine that Jesus approved of homosexuality (and yet that revolutionary statement never made it into the NT, even though the radical-enough discussion of Gentile circumcision did). It conflicts with the history, anthropology, and cuture of the time. Anyone who manipulates the text to arrive at the “conclusion” that Christ would see nothing wrong with same sex marriage is being disingenuous, or eisegetical for personal or political reasons.

When debating same sex marriage, people will continually try to make you come up with a secular argument for them to debunk, but there is no such thing as secular morality.

Without God, morality is subjective and than it is nothing but subjective opinion, thus will never work. I think the best way would probably be to humbly preach the gospels to Christians who are supporting same sex marriage, to let them know that what they are really supporting is sexual immorality.

Please continue to next post -

 

[josh987654321]

Continued from above post -

Catechism of the Catholic Church

CCC 2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,141 tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."142 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

Superficially same sex marriage looks like the christian thing to advocate, because it’s in a severe missunderstanding of Christian “Love.” but fundamentally it is the work of the father of all lies to decieve children of good will and spread sexual immorality amongst us like never before.

Fornication and promiscuity are advocated through the same reasoning as the sexual acts of homosexuality are, which is “If both consent to it and it’s not hurting anyone else than whats wrong with it?”

Thus the father of all lies convinces people that sexual immorality is no longer immoral and the truth is rejected and our lust is embraced.

It is the work of satan that is trying to tell people that love is all the same so that they will indirectly include “Love of Eros” in Chirsitan love. It is his lies that are trying to make out that we are denying homosexuals true love.

We are not denying homosexuals true love, the most important kind of love, the only love that bears any real fruit and that is the “Love of Agape.” We should all aspire to the “Love of Agape” Including homosexuals and no one should deny such love for anyone. But it is not an easy love, it involves the rejection of self. Not the embracement of self through lust.

We are denying homosexuals corrupted love, the love that satan has to offer us, the one that is filled with lust, the one that is filled with selfishness and self gratification, it is the love that bears sour fruit in which humans desire to be drunk on, there is nothing selfless about it and it leaves us for despair when missused, it’s the “Love of Eros.”

Love of Agape: Agape is used in the biblical passage known as the “love chapter,” 1 Corinthians 13, and is described there and throughout the New Testament as sacrificial love. Agape is also used in ancient texts to denote feelings for one’s children and the feelings for a spouse, and it was also used to refer to a love feast. It can also be described as the feeling of being content or holding one in high regard. Agape was used by Christians to express the unconditional love of God.

Love of Eros: is passionate love, with sensual desire and longing.

Note: these are the arguments I have been using to oppose same sex marriage, I hope they will help you.

Thank you for reading
Josh