What is meant by those who are 'born eunuch' in the Bible

[Abba]

What is meant by eunuch in Sacred Scripture?. Are there ancient writings, Catholic or Jewish, which provide information of who exactly were eunuchs?

Question 1:

Specifically, who were those that were born eunuch? I consider what Jesus said:

Matthew 19:12
For there are eunuchs who were born that way, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others—and there are those who choose to live like eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it.”

Three types are mentioned by Jesus:

1. those who were born eunuch (are these males with non functioning testicles/penis who are infertile?). The interests groups are arguing that eunuchs included homosexuals, hermaphrodites and people who consider themselves transgender. This seems to me to be a bias reading, as eunuchs as per the biblical readings seem to be persons who could not function sexually/born castrated.
2. those who have been made eunuch by others. This is clear, they were castrated males that were castrated to be servants.
3. those who choose to live like eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. These are the priests and religious.

Question 2:

Regarding those who choose to live like eunuchs I was reading this week Canon 1 of the Council of Nicea and wondered if priests or men who wanted to be priests were castrating themselves to assure their vows of chastity. They could justify this action with certain Bible verses unless the Magisterium of the Church declared it immoral; which it did at the Council of Nicea.

Mark 9:47
And if your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell,

Matthew 5:29
If your right eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell.

If males were castrating themselves to assure they maintained their vows of chastity; that would contradict what is written in Deuteronomy 23:1.

Deuteronomy: 23:1

1"No one who is emasculated or has his male organ cut off shall enter the assembly of the LORD. 2"No one of illegitimate birth shall enter the assembly of the LORD; none of his descendants, even to the tenth generation, shall enter the assembly of the LORD.…

Canon 1

If any one in sickness has been subjected by physicians to a surgical operation, or if he has been castrated by barbarians, let him remain among the clergy; but, if any one in sound health has castrated himself, it behooves that such an one, if [already] enrolled among the clergy, should cease [from his ministry], and that from henceforth no such person should be promoted. But, as it is evident that this is said of those who wilfully do the thing and presume to castrate themselves, so if any have been made eunuchs by barbarians, or by their masters, and should otherwise be found worthy, such men the Canon admits to the clergy.

I just wonder if that was what was going on and the Magisterium had to address the issue.

 

[MaryT777]

Interesting question…

 

[DaveBj]

There are men who are of a nature that has no interest in sexual activity. I’ve always taken this passage to mean those men.

 

[KathleenGee]

Yes, that is what I think as well. Men who do not have any interest in sex, same with women.

Then there are those made for the kingdom and I see those who are called and able to live the celibate life for the sake of Christ’s kingdom.

Then there are those who are made that way, and I can think of other tragic situations where it is not just because the person is an eunuch.

 

[Celtic_Maiden]

There are some men who remain single and don’t engage in Sex for the sake of the Kingdom.

There are some that have been made like a eunuch this means a little operation on the mans “manhood” renders them not interested and not able to have sex. The Moslems in the mid 14/15/16,hundreds used to do this to there men so the Sultan in charge could put these men in charge of there mistress’s and know they would not be touched by them.

 

[PJM]

=Abba;11683396]What is meant by eunuch in Sacred Scripture?. Are there ancient writings, Catholic or Jewish, which provide information of who exactly were eunuchs?

Question 1:

Specifically, who were those that were born eunuch? I consider what Jesus said:

Matthew 19:12
For there are eunuchs who were born that way, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others—and there are those who choose to live like eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it.”

Three types are mentioned by Jesus:

1. those who were born eunuch (are these males with non functioning testicles/penis who are infertile?). The interests groups are arguing that eunuchs included homosexuals, hermaphrodites and people who consider themselves transgender. This seems to me to be a bias reading, as eunuchs as per the biblical readings seem to be persons who could not function sexually/born castrated.

1. those who have been made eunuch by others. This is clear, they were castrated males that were castrated to be servants.

1. those who choose to live like eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. These are the priests and religious.

Question 2:

Regarding those who choose to live like eunuchs I was reading this week Canon 1 of the Council of Nicea and wondered if priests or men who wanted to be priests were castrating themselves to assure their vows of chastity. They could justify this action with certain Bible verses unless the Magisterium of the Church declared it immoral; which it did at the Council of Nicea.

Mark 9:47
And if your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell,

Matthew 5:29
If your right eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell.

If males were castrating themselves to assure they maintained their vows of chastity; that would contradict what is written in Deuteronomy 23:1.

Deuteronomy: 23:1

1"No one who is emasculated or has his male organ cut off shall enter the assembly of the LORD. 2"No one of illegitimate birth shall enter the assembly of the LORD; none of his descendants, even to the tenth generation, shall enter the assembly of the LORD.…

Canon 1

If any one in sickness has been subjected by physicians to a surgical operation, or if he has been castrated by barbarians, let him remain among the clergy; but, if any one in sound health has castrated himself, it behooves that such an one, if [already] enrolled among the clergy, should cease [from his ministry], and that from henceforth no such person should be promoted. But, as it is evident that this is said of those who wilfully do the thing and presume to castrate themselves, so if any have been made eunuchs by barbarians, or by their masters, and should otherwise be found worthy, such men the Canon admits to the clergy.

I just wonder if that was what was going on and the Magisterium had to address the issue.

“Born eunuch’s” = born sterile can procreate:thumbsup:

 

[Abba]

“Born eunuch’s” = born sterile can procreate:thumbsup:

“Born eunuch” = can or can’t?

There are those who argue (gay lobby) that it cannot mean ‘sterile’ as presumably the ancients did not have a way of determining if a male was born ‘sterile’ before actually trying to impregnate a female.

Of course, it could be noted that the ancients seem to have known a lot more than what we give them credit. Consider what we have recently come to know about the paintings in caves and how they were not really painting frogs and images but energies of the universe.
Then, there is one that has always impressed me and that is the tomb of Tutankhamen. The ancients knew of a microorganism that becomes dormant for thousands of years and then revives when exposed to oxygen and is deadly to humans. When the tomb was discovered in, if I recall correctly 1922, people started to die. The Egyptians said that it was because of the curse which they had been warned about. Scientist later found the microorganism. It’s amazing that the ancient Egyptians knew so much about an organism that was invisible to the eyes. So, I hesitate to limit what the ancients could or could not have know or had been able to determine.

+++

I think the condition of ‘eunuch’ could render the male sterile but it is not sterility that determines it. Sterile males may have that male drive. This would, I think, disqualify sterility as the determining factor.

 

[DaveBj]

“Born eunuch’s” = born sterile can procreate:thumbsup:

If a man can procreate, then he is not sterile. Those two terms are mutually exclusive. Perhaps you meant “impotent.”

 

[Abba]

There are men who are of a nature that has no interest in sexual activity.

True. This is a phenomenon of nature. I happen to have met two men in my life who fit this description, one a colleague and the other a field worker. They are men in every sense of the word except that they do not have any sexual desires even though their private parts are intact and function. I got to know the field worker more as we worked together almost on a daily basis for a couple of years. I can say that it is as though they developed and matured fully in every other way but sexually. It’s like they remained children in that respect. Based on my experience, I can see the great advantage of having a eunuch employee, but certainly to make someone a eunuch to serve - is barbaric, cruel, tragic and a great violation of human dignity.

Of course, I a sharing from life experience, not results of what may qualify as a scientific research. I took my friends at their word; that everything functioned properly. They simple had no interest nor desire in mating or sexual activity. It is as though they just never matured in that respect and are childlike - yet males all the way. Believe me, I was in the wild with one of them and I can assure you that I was with a man all the way.

I’ve always taken this passage to mean those men.

I agree with you. I think these men fit the description of born eunuch in the Bible. How about the impotent? Would you say they also fit the biblical content of born eunuch? I don’t think Jesus was including people born with homosexual tendencies in the term "born eunuch. "

I like the points made here:

“Some gay groups argue that Jesus was referring to homosexuals when He mentioned eunuchs who were “born that way.” However, the Bible never uses the words homosexual and eunuch interchangeably. Furthermore, eunuchs are never referred to in Scripture as being in sin, while homosexuality is universally condemned in both the Old and New Testaments.” gotquestions.org/eunuch-eunuchs.html#ixzz2slfq8Szx

+++

This reminds me of another peculiar phenomenon of nature that I encountered and witnessed. For many years and read and re-read Plato’s works. I read the Theaetetus many times and so Socrates reference to ‘wind-pregnancy’. I thought it was an expression of some sort. Until one day, a woman I knew got married and pregnant. I would see her every so often while she was pregnant - and pregnant she was. Everything about her was of a pregnant woman including the breast enlargement and the big belly. Then the most amazing news, when she went to give birth (with birth pangs and all) - there was no baby. A wind pregnancy, after my amazement - I remembered Plato and Socrates. Sometimes we need to witness certain phenomenon ourselves to grasp that they really do happen.


SOCRATES: Good! Excellent, my boy! That is the way one ought to speak out. But come now, let us examine your utterance together, and see whether it is a real offspring or a mere wind-egg. Perception, you say, is knowledge?

THEAETETUS: Yes.

 

[Oldtimer_7]

A condition known as crypto orchidism can lead to a man being a natural eunuch. When I was working, I examined a number of men who had one undescended testicle, It is possible in about 10% of cases, that both would not descend. To produce sperm, the testicles need to be cooler than the rest of the body, which is why they are in a sac that hangs away from the body. A risk is that the undescended testicle is very likely to become cancerous. Since the average lifespan of men in Biblical times was only around 35 years, cancer was unlikely to show up.

 

[FormerXCatholic]

“For there are eunuchs who were born that way from their mother’s womb; and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men; and there are also eunuchs who made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. He who is able to accept this, let him accept it.”

I don’t believe that it is blasphemous to perceive eunuchs as including homosexuals, in addition to asexuals by birth and asexuals by choice or deception. This is actually a quite refreshing quote from Jesus that the church ought to use to defend itself with.

A homosexual is similar to a celibate in that he cannot or will not procreate and has no interest in the designed purpose of sex. If a homosexual chooses to be celibate, it is for the sake of the Kingdom of Heaven. God bless these people!

The sins a non celibate homosexual is guilty of is masturbatory sex and redefining marriage for a personal gain, yet the funny thing is that you don’t have to be homosexual to commit these sins. Straight people do this also by “playing with themselves”, using contraception, and supporting gay “marriage” and other strange “marriages”.

 

[Jeanne1184]

I think the original meaning of eunuch had to be complete impotence whether by birth defect, surgical procedure by force, or by self-surgical means for religious reasons.

The Interlinear Greek Bible does not read the third instance as referring to someone who chooses celibacy - it reads “self-emasculates”.

scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/NTpdf/mat19.pdf

There have been a number of clergy (brothers and priests) who have left their order to marry, or have had affairs. A eunuch cannot ‘change his mind’. In times past (and who knows, maybe somewhere today), a man was ‘selected’ (forced) to be made a eunuch in order to guard the women in the harem so other males did not slip in (or the women out, I suppose). There was no ‘reversal’ of his status possible.

I don’t know why the word eunuch would have been expanded to include a category of celibacy that is covered under ‘celibacy’ - which is (reversible) voluntary sexual abstinance. Though Wikipedia and Wiktionary mention this as one of the acceptable meanings of eunuch, why is a big question mark, for me.

I doubt there is any woman who would hear the word eunuch and wonder if her wiles could change his mind, as happens with a ‘celibates’.

 

[DaveBj]

I think the original meaning of eunuch had to be complete impotence whether by birth defect, surgical procedure by force, or by self-surgical means for religious reasons.

The Interlinear Greek Bible does not read the third instance as referring to someone who chooses celibacy - it reads “self-emasculates”.

scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/NTpdf/mat19.pdf

That link doesn’t work for me, but the language resources in the PC Study Bible say that the verb in the third instance has the literal meaning of “to castrate oneself” and the figurative meaning of “to live unmarried.” Obviously, in our day and age we would have to expand that to “to live unmarried, and to not engage in sexual activity outside marriage.”

 

[ezeekl]

This is a quote from The Expositor’s Greek Testament:

"Matthew 19:12 is an explanatory commentary on δέδοται.— εὐνοῦχος: keeper of the bedchamber in an Oriental barem (from εὐνή, ed, and ἔχω), a jealous office, which could be entrusted only to such as were incapable of abusing their trust; hence one who has been emasculated. Jesus distinguishes three sorts, two physical and one ethical: (1) those born with a defect ( ἐγεννήθησαν οὕτως); (2) those made such by art ( εὐνουχίσθησαν ὑπὸ τῶν ἀνθρώπων); (3) those who make themselves eunuchs ( εὐνούχισαν ἑαυτοὺς).— διὰ τὴν β. τ. ο., for the Kingdom of Heaven’s sake. This explains the motive and the nature of ethical eunuchism. Here, as in Matthew 15:17, Jesus touches on a delicate subject to teach His disciples a very important lesson, viz., that the claims of the Kingdom of God are paramount; that when necessary even the powerful impulses leading to marriage must be resisted out of regard to them.— ὁ δυνάμενος χωρεῖν χωρείτω: by this final word Jesus recognises the severity of the demand as going beyond the capacity of all but a select number. We may take it also as an appeal to the spiritual intelligence of His followers = see that ye do not misconceive my meaning. Is not monasticism, based on vows of life-long celibacy, a vast baleful misconception, turning a military requirement to subordinate personal to imperial interests, as occasion demands, into an elaborate ascetic system?

Notice how they try to turn a logical reference to celebacy into something not only anti Catholic but also anti scripture. Here I am referring to Paul’s words in 1 Corinthians 7:38

“So that he who marries his betrothed does well; and he who refrains from marriage will do better.”

Also in 1 Corinthians 7:8-9 Paul writes:

"8 To the unmarried and the widows I say that it is well for them to remain single as I do.
9 But if they cannot exercise self-control, they should marry. For it is better to marry than to be aflame with passion.

 

[thistle]

What is meant by eunuch in Sacred Scripture?. Are there ancient writings, Catholic or Jewish, which provide information of who exactly were eunuchs?

Question 1:

Specifically, who were those that were born eunuch? I consider what Jesus said:

Matthew 19:12
For there are eunuchs who were born that way, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others—and there are those who choose to live like eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it.”

Three types are mentioned by Jesus:

1. those who were born eunuch (are these males with non functioning testicles/penis who are infertile?). The interests groups are arguing that eunuchs included homosexuals, hermaphrodites and people who consider themselves transgender. This seems to me to be a bias reading, as eunuchs as per the biblical readings seem to be persons who could not function sexually/born castrated.
2. those who have been made eunuch by others. This is clear, they were castrated males that were castrated to be servants.
3. those who choose to live like eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. These are the priests and religious.

Question 2:

Regarding those who choose to live like eunuchs I was reading this week Canon 1 of the Council of Nicea and wondered if priests or men who wanted to be priests were castrating themselves to assure their vows of chastity. They could justify this action with certain Bible verses unless the Magisterium of the Church declared it immoral; which it did at the Council of Nicea.

Mark 9:47
And if your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell,

Matthew 5:29
If your right eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell.

If males were castrating themselves to assure they maintained their vows of chastity; that would contradict what is written in Deuteronomy 23:1.

Deuteronomy: 23:1

1"No one who is emasculated or has his male organ cut off shall enter the assembly of the LORD. 2"No one of illegitimate birth shall enter the assembly of the LORD; none of his descendants, even to the tenth generation, shall enter the assembly of the LORD.…

Canon 1

If any one in sickness has been subjected by physicians to a surgical operation, or if he has been castrated by barbarians, let him remain among the clergy; but, if any one in sound health has castrated himself, it behooves that such an one, if [already] enrolled among the clergy, should cease [from his ministry], and that from henceforth no such person should be promoted. But, as it is evident that this is said of those who wilfully do the thing and presume to castrate themselves, so if any have been made eunuchs by barbarians, or by their masters, and should otherwise be found worthy, such men the Canon admits to the clergy.

I just wonder if that was what was going on and the Magisterium had to address the issue.

D-R Bible, Haydock Commentary:

Ver. 12. And there are eunuchs, who have made themselves eunuchs, &c. It is not to be taken in the literal sense, but of such who have taken a firm and commendable resolution of leading a single life. — He that can receive it, let him receive it. Some think that to receive, in this and the foregoing verse, is to understand; and so will have the sense to be, he that can understand what I have said of different eunuchs, let him understand it; as when Christ said elsewhere, he that hath ears to hear, let him hear. But others expound it as an admonition to men and women, not to engage themselves in a vow of living a single life, unless, after a serious deliberation, they have good grounds to think they can duly comply with this vow, otherwise let them not make it. Thus St. Jerome on this place, and St. Chrysostom where they both expressly take notice, that this grace is granted to every one that asketh and beggeth for it by prayer. (Witham) — To the crown and glory of which state, let those aspire who feel themselves called by heaven.

 

[Augustine3]

I always thought “born a Eunuch” meant born with a physical deficiency

Eunuchs in ancient times were castrated because they were the servants employed to serve the queen. Kings didn’t trust their servants alone with their queen, hence they were castrated.

Notice the comparison of two kingdoms (kingdom on earth and kingdom in heaven)? Celibacy is a free choice for those who wish to serve the church i.e. God’s kingdom out of love.

 

[irenaeuslyons]

My reading of it:

Eunuchs served royal households. If you were born eunuch, that means you were destined to serve as one when you were older. It was not by your choice.

 

[CarlaOLS]

I don’t believe that it is blasphemous to perceive eunuchs as including homosexuals, in addition to asexuals by birth and asexuals by choice or deception. This is actually a quite refreshing quote from Jesus that the church ought to use to defend itself with.

A homosexual is similar to a celibate in that he cannot or will not procreate and has no interest in the designed purpose of sex. If a homosexual chooses to be celibate, it is for the sake of the Kingdom of Heaven. God bless these people!

The sins a non celibate homosexual is guilty of is masturbatory sex and redefining marriage for a personal gain, yet the funny thing is that you don’t have to be homosexual to commit these sins. Straight people do this also by “playing with themselves”, using contraception, and supporting gay “marriage” and other strange “marriages”.

I see your point and you are trying to be kind and inclusive, but I work with this issue, and I can tell you flatly: NO ONE is BORN HOMOSEXUAL. Homosexuality is a desire for the same sex, being attracted to the same sex or SSA. God does not create mistakes, and our Church itself calls the attractions “disordered.”

That said you are speaking rightly if you are considering that there are those born who are meant to have no attractions to either sex (for sexual activity.) These would be eunuchs. But those who develop SSA through homo-emotional wounds as they grow up, and recognize the attractions must never be acted out, in other words those who live chaste lives despite the strong attractions, are indeed holy men and women. They live with a great cross, believe me!

So be careful not to feed the world’s myth that homosexuals are born gay. God did no such thing. But like other crosses and maladies, he allows this disorder to develop as a particular cross in that person’ life, whether it is meant to be lifelong ( I believe more rare) or rather it is meant to be overcome as thousands have through therapy, prayer, introspection, and a myriad of helps out there for those with UNWANTED SSA.

For more information on how homosexual desires develop see http://ssahope.com and see how to join an online society of prayer for all those who experience SSA: sorrowfulhearts.com.

 

[Wesrock]

I don’t see why people cannot be born with same sex attraction given that so many people are born with other physical or mental traits we consider disordered, but that’s another topic.

Some people are born with physical disorders which makes them unable to have sexual relations, or who don’t develop properly. I assume that is what is meant by “born eunuchs.”

 

[psalm90]

see http://ssahope.com and see how to join an online society of prayer for all those who experience SSA: sorrowfulhearts.com.

The first link does not work with my internet provider. Is it correct?