What is my moral obligation?

[LAMBOFGODGIRLY]

I have a very tough situation. My friend, K, is in RCIA classes to become Catholic. Her mother in law is her sponsor. I am also the sponsor of my aunt who is in the same RCIA class. My friend K and I have been best friends for 14 years and I was so happy when she told me she was going to become Catholic. She is recently married to a Catholic man who had a vasectomy 8 years ago. He has a son who is 9 years old who had a very bad heart defect when he was born, that is what made K’s husband get a vasectomy in the first place. He almost lost his son when he was born and it scared him so bad that he did not ever want to go through that again. I know it’s still not a reason for the vasectomy, but nonetheless it was done. Well, my friend is going in for In Vitro because she was told that since it has been eight years and there was so much scar tissue that they would not be successful at achieving pregnancy without surgically removing the sperm and doing In-vitro. I told her it is against the church she is joining, but she is still continuing with it. She got so mad at me when I suggested for to talk to a preist about it. She told me to stay out of her and her husbands business and she did not care if it was against the church. She told me if God didn’t want her to become pregnant by In Vitro, he would not let it be successful. *Needless to say, my feelings are extremly hurt for the way she talked to me and for the life of the embryos that will be lost in her attempt to have a baby. What is my moral obligation at this point, knowing she is getting ready to come into the church? And was it wrong of me to let her know what she is doing is wrong? * **

 

[Whitacre_Girl]

I have a very tough situation. My friend, K, is in RCIA classes to become Catholic. Her mother in law is her sponsor. I am also the sponsor of my aunt who is in the same RCIA class. My friend K and I have been best friends for 14 years and I was so happy when she told me she was going to become Catholic. She is recently married to a Catholic man who had a vasectomy 8 years ago. He has a son who is 9 years old who had a very bad heart defect when he was born, that is what made K’s husband get a vasectomy in the first place. He almost lost his son when he was born and it scared him so bad that he did not ever want to go through that again. I know it’s still not a reason for the vasectomy, but nonetheless it was done. Well, my friend is going in for In Vitro because she was told that since it has been eight years and there was so much scar tissue that they would not be successful at achieving pregnancy without surgically removing the sperm and doing In-vitro. I told her it is against the church she is joining, but she is still continuing with it. She got so mad at me when I suggested for to talk to a preist about it. She told me to stay out of her and her husbands business and she did not care if it was against the church. She told me if God didn’t want her to become pregnant by In Vitro, he would not let it be successful. *Needless to say, my feelings are extremly hurt for the way she talked to me and for the life of the embryos that will be lost in her attempt to have a baby. What is my moral obligation at this point, knowing she is getting ready to come into the church? And was it wrong of me to let her know what she is doing is wrong? * **

Pray for them.

I remember when I was coming into the church – there was a lot I was confused about, and none of it dealing with things that were as hard-hitting or painful as sterility.

If you want to talk to them about it further, remember that they are likely going through a lot of pain over this issue. Anger is easily going to bubble up, so you have to be as gentle as a dove about it.

Still, they are brand new to the faith, and need good examples. Answer their questions, pray for them, and they will learn through RCIA why what they are doing is against church teaching.

It was not wrong of you to let them know that the church is against what they are doing, but be sure you are empathetic to their pain on this issue and not seeking to aggravate old wounds.

 

[Barbkw]

Are they aware that the child they do conceive, will have a 42% higher risk of childhood cancer due to IVF?

time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,2004668,00.html

And, as you write, IVF will with a very high liklihood implant multiple fertilized eggs and then abort them down to one or two.

I’m an RCIA sponsor, and I highly doubt that the moral issues will be discussed in detail in RCIA. They should be of first concern - to my way of thinking, but from what I’ve observed in class, they don’t seem to be a determining factor for entry into the Church.

Probably because of all the anti-catholic cradle Catholics the Church deals with already.

Last year, we had a pre Easter Vigil dinner at the Church, and in conversation one of the catechumens, a lady (who had just given birth a month prior) mentioned how upset she was that her insurance was denying coverage on her ABC pills.

I quickly offered that she look into NFP and she batted that suggestion out of the park saying her mother practiced that and had 5 children.

I informed our RCIA sponsor about the exchange and let her deal with the problem hoping that she would also find a way either in class or in private interviews to have adult conversations with adults about what the Catholic Church teaches.

If I can find the organization’s name, there is a Catholic medical agency that works with couples who have trouble conceiving and their techniques are 100% in line with what the Church teaches.

 

[Barbkw]

naprotechnology.com/

naprotechnology.com/infertility.htm

 

[LAMBOFGODGIRLY]

I have told her all this. He could have got a reversal done, but the doctor told them that they only had a 10% chance with a reversal. The institute that is in line with the church is called The Pope Paul Institute: Napro Technology. It’s in Omaha Nebraska. I am scared to bring this up to her because she was so mad at me. I know her pain of infertility because my husband and I are experiencing that at the present moment. My husband and I have also just lost our son Peyton. We know her fears. It took us 3 years to get pregnant with Peyton, and he is our only child. When we lost him our fear of never getting pregnant again is back. It is a very hard cross to bear. I just felt so horrible that she got so mad at me! This has probably ruined our friendship! I was so nice and very concerned about her well being when I was talking to her too. She just snapped! I wonder if I could give her Mother in law information about In Vitro and maybe let her try and talk to them because she is her sponsor in RCIA.

 

[Barbkw]

Alisha,

So sorry to read about the death of your son.

K is already mad at you which I hope you can forgive her. (You experienced a far greater loss than her).

I would give the Napro information to her MIL.

In private conversation with your RCIA instructor, I’d bring your concerns up with her. The RCIA program needs to know about the moral conflicts that exist and deal with them in mature open conversation with catechumens.

NaPro and adoption are always options - instead of aborting babies through the IVF process.

 

[Fidelia]

It sounds like a very difficult situation, but maybe at a time when she is more calm, she might be more receptive to learning the Church’s teachings. Theology of the Body would be a good place to start, Christopher West’s “Theology of the Body for Beginners” and “the Good News about Sex and Marriage” are both great books.

I would also talk to the priest and let him know that maybe that issue should be brought up.

 

[twoangels]

I have a very tough situation. My friend, K, is in RCIA classes to become Catholic. Her mother in law is her sponsor. I am also the sponsor of my aunt who is in the same RCIA class. My friend K and I have been best friends for 14 years and I was so happy when she told me she was going to become Catholic. She is recently married to a Catholic man who had a vasectomy 8 years ago. He has a son who is 9 years old who had a very bad heart defect when he was born, that is what made K’s husband get a vasectomy in the first place. He almost lost his son when he was born and it scared him so bad that he did not ever want to go through that again. I know it’s still not a reason for the vasectomy, but nonetheless it was done. Well, my friend is going in for In Vitro because she was told that since it has been eight years and there was so much scar tissue that they would not be successful at achieving pregnancy without surgically removing the sperm and doing In-vitro. I told her it is against the church she is joining, but she is still continuing with it. She got so mad at me when I suggested for to talk to a preist about it. She told me to stay out of her and her husbands business and she did not care if it was against the church. She told me if God didn’t want her to become pregnant by In Vitro, he would not let it be successful. *Needless to say, my feelings are extremly hurt for the way she talked to me and for the life of the embryos that will be lost in her attempt to have a baby. What is my moral obligation at this point, knowing she is getting ready to come into the church? And was it wrong of me to let her know what she is doing is wrong? * **

You’ve done all you are morally required to do: give counsel. She was not receptive and hammering it down her throat will not be productive. At this point, what you need to do is to pray. It was not wrong to let her know it was wrong. So long as your approach was in charity, you did nothing wrong. We just need to recognize when the door is closing and that these doors cannot be forced open through our action. When someone’s heart is closed, God’s grace needs to do the knocking.

As for getting her Napro information, it completely depends on her openness to it. Hammering can actually close the door further and ruin a friendship.

 

[Fidelia]

When someone’s heart is closed, God’s grace needs to do the knocking.

Very good insight. I like.

 

[RosaryFan]

I have a very tough situation. My friend, K, is in RCIA classes to become Catholic. Her mother in law is her sponsor. I am also the sponsor of my aunt who is in the same RCIA class. My friend K and I have been best friends for 14 years and I was so happy when she told me she was going to become Catholic. She is recently married to a Catholic man who had a vasectomy 8 years ago. He has a son who is 9 years old who had a very bad heart defect when he was born, that is what made K’s husband get a vasectomy in the first place. He almost lost his son when he was born and it scared him so bad that he did not ever want to go through that again. I know it’s still not a reason for the vasectomy, but nonetheless it was done. Well, my friend is going in for In Vitro because she was told that since it has been eight years and there was so much scar tissue that they would not be successful at achieving pregnancy without surgically removing the sperm and doing In-vitro. I told her it is against the church she is joining, but she is still continuing with it. She got so mad at me when I suggested for to talk to a preist about it. She told me to stay out of her and her husbands business and she did not care if it was against the church. She told me if God didn’t want her to become pregnant by In Vitro, he would not let it be successful. *Needless to say, my feelings are extremly hurt for the way she talked to me and for the life of the embryos that will be lost in her attempt to have a baby. What is my moral obligation at this point, knowing she is getting ready to come into the church? And was it wrong of me to let her know what she is doing is wrong? * **

It certainly was not wrong of you to let her know that she was about to do something that would endanger her soul, among other things. In my opinion, your duty is done. You can’t really do any more except pray for them.

 

[Newbie2]

You’ve done all you are morally required to do: give counsel. She was not receptive and hammering it down her throat will not be productive. At this point, what you need to do is to pray. It was not wrong to let her know it was wrong. So long as your approach was in charity, you did nothing wrong. We just need to recognize when the door is closing and that these doors cannot be forced open through our action. When someone’s heart is closed, God’s grace needs to do the knocking.

As for getting her Napro information, it completely depends on her openness to it. Hammering can actually close the door further and ruin a friendship.

Very good insight. I like.

It certainly was not wrong of you to let her know that she was about to do something that would endanger her soul, among other things. In my opinion, your duty is done. You can’t really do any more except pray for them.

I agree.

Do not underestimate the power of prayer.