What is my responsibility concerning liturgical abuse?

[glenaitken]

I am a DRE and my pastor is insistant on having the children recite the Penitential Rite (Kyrie) during the First Communion Masses. He has acknowledged that it is not liturgically correct, but wishes to proceed anyways, operating under the theory that as long as we do everything right when the Bishop is present we can allow a few things here and there. This may be a minor infraction, but I am not sure if it is prudent to report it or if it is infact serious enough to warrent the involvement of the local ordinary. I had tried addressing this several times in the parish, but the general consensus is that the buck stops at the pastor. Should I ignore the abuse, wait on the Lord, or call someone? I understand that not everything works in practice as well as it does on paper, but it seems to me that if we can’t be faithful in something so minor, how can we expect faithfulness from others? Please advise.

 

[DallasCatholic]

I am a DRE and my pastor is insistant on having the children recite the Penitential Rite (Kyrie) during the First Communion Masses. He has acknowledged that it is not liturgically correct, but wishes to proceed anyways, operating under the theory that as long as we do everything right when the Bishop is present we can allow a few things here and there. This may be a minor infraction, but I am not sure if it is prudent to report it or if it is infact serious enough to warrent the involvement of the local ordinary. I had tried addressing this several times in the parish, but the general consensus is that the buck stops at the pastor. Should I ignore the abuse, wait on the Lord, or call someone? I understand that not everything works in practice as well as it does on paper, but it seems to me that if we can’t be faithful in something so minor, how can we expect faithfulness from others? Please advise.

If you were a “regular” parishoner I would advise you to speak to the Priest about it…as a DRE I think your responsibility is even greater. If you, as a DRE, do not feel comfortable pursuing this matter how much less comfortable do you think other parishoners feel? I would appeal to the Priest and explain to him that even though he is the Celebrant he has an obligation to the parish to follow the rubrics…no matter how wonderful and moving a liturgical abuse might be…it is still an abuse. If the Priest continues the liturgical abuse then I would write the Bishop with a copy to Cardinal Arinze.

 

[Cristiano]

From what you state, it appears to me that he priest is willing to do that in front of the bishop. If that it is correct, then you better keep quiet. The bishop will see by himself and he will decide how to address the topic with the priest.

If the priest is not going to do it in front of the bishop, then I can understand your question. However, I would say that your conscience is not formed well enough to act on such a decision. Instead of looking for advice on how to correct the priest, you should probably work more on trying to understand the fundamentals or constraints (gravity) of that action.

 

[glenaitken]

I agree that my responsibility is greater than the “regular parishoner”. I have tried on several occasions, including today, to change his mind. I understand that it is not up to the parish priests to decide what is liturgically good. what makes me hesitate is that we have a well trained preist and very informed sisters in our parish (we are very lucky in that regard) who do nothing to stop it. the sisters are behind the tradition of the church, and were present at the communions also. the preist that we have is from a tanzanian ordern very well trained, and i can tell that he is wiser than myself. maybe i should discuss it with him before any other action? I am almost positive that writing to the bishop or Cardinal would put too much stress in my workplace. I know that i cannot be fired for following the rules, but sometimes remaining can be even worse. we are making great strides in the religious education program to bringing it up to par, and a simple administrative decision on his part could undue a year of hard work. I know where the paperwork ought to go in the situation, but it is in the finer points of prudance that i find my difficulty.

 

[buffalo]

from Redemptionis Sacramentum

1. Complaints Regarding Abuses in Liturgical Matters

[12.] On the contrary, it is the right of all of Christ’s faithful that the Liturgy, and in particular the celebration of Holy Mass, should truly be as the Church wishes, according to her stipulations as prescribed in the liturgical books and in the other laws and norms. **Likewise, the Catholic people have the right that the Sacrifice of the Holy Mass should be celebrated for them in an integral manner, according to the entire doctrine of the Church’s Magisterium. Finally, it is the Catholic community’s right that the celebration of the Most Holy Eucharist should be carried out for it in such a manner that it truly stands out as a sacrament of unity, to the exclusion of all blemishes and actions that might engender divisions and factions in the Church.**32]

[183.] In an altogether particular manner, let everyone do all that is in their power to ensure that the Most Holy Sacrament of the Eucharist will be protected from any and every irreverence or distortion and that all abuses be thoroughly corrected. This is a most serious duty incumbent upon each and every one, and all are bound to carry it out without any favouritism.

[184.] Any Catholic, whether Priest or Deacon or lay member of Christ’s faithful, has the right to lodge a complaint regarding a liturgical abuse to the diocesan Bishop or the competent Ordinary equivalent to him in law, or to the Apostolic See on account of the primacy of the Roman Pontiff.[290] It is fitting, however, insofar as possible, that the report or complaint be submitted first to the diocesan Bishop. This is naturally to be done in truth and charity.

 

[YADA]

I must be missing something…the Kyrie [Penitential Rite] is a part of the Mass [Intoductory]…

Is the problem with the priest adding an additional Penitential prayer [or moving the kyrie] to the Communion Rite…?

 

[DallasCatholic]

I agree that my responsibility is greater than the “regular parishoner”. I have tried on several occasions, including today, to change his mind. I understand that it is not up to the parish priests to decide what is liturgically good. what makes me hesitate is that we have a well trained preist and very informed sisters in our parish (we are very lucky in that regard) who do nothing to stop it. the sisters are behind the tradition of the church, and were present at the communions also. the preist that we have is from a tanzanian ordern very well trained, and i can tell that he is wiser than myself. maybe i should discuss it with him before any other action? I am almost positive that writing to the bishop or Cardinal would put too much stress in my workplace. I know that i cannot be fired for following the rules, but sometimes remaining can be even worse. we are making great strides in the religious education program to bringing it up to par, and a simple administrative decision on his part could undue a year of hard work. I know where the paperwork ought to go in the situation, but it is in the finer points of prudance that i find my difficulty.

Yes, by all means discuss it further with the Priest. To give an example, I recently spoke with a visiting Priest who came to our Parish and instituted a liturgical abuse. I explained to him why I was uncomfortable with the abuse and asked him to help me understand why it was acceptable to him and specifically where in the rubrics this was allowed. The Priest had a wonderful explanation about how he was trying to increase the people’s reverence and that if it wasn’t specifically forbidden in the rubrics then he could do it. I thanked him for his explanation and told him that I would educate myself on this matter and that after prayer and reflection I would decide whether to pursue the matter with the Bishop. After some kind souls on this forum referred me to Instruction Redemptionis Sacramentum I was able to go back to the Priest and show him where his abuse was specifically prohibited. The Priest immediately agreed to stop this particular abuse. If your situation is not as clear cut then I would appeal to him with the sections that Buffalo has bolded…we have a right to have the Mass celebrated correctly.

 

[YADA]

So why is the penitential rite [kyrie] not a part of the “First Communion Mass”?

We have first communions during the regular Sunday Mass and * we always include the penitential rite [not usually A - the Comfitor, but B ----although either could be used] as we do for any regular Sunday celebration of Mass…

Why is

having the children recite the Penitential Rite (Kyrie) during the First Communion Masses

an abuse…is it because it is moved from the Introductory or some other reason…*

 

[OutinChgoburbs]

Yes, this confuses me, unless Father is having the children do the priest’s part, such as saying “Lord we have sinned against you” or having them write their own penetential rite in a similar format as petitions, then reading it. If it’s a “For being mean to our brothers and sisters, we are sorry, Jesus” type thing, then there might be a problem.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

I am a DRE and my pastor is insistant on having the children recite the Penitential Rite (Kyrie) during the First Communion Masses. He has acknowledged that it is not liturgically correct, but wishes to proceed anyways, operating under the theory that as long as we do everything right when the Bishop is present we can allow a few things here and there. This may be a minor infraction, but I am not sure if it is prudent to report it or if it is infact serious enough to warrent the involvement of the local ordinary. I had tried addressing this several times in the parish, but the general consensus is that the buck stops at the pastor. Should I ignore the abuse, wait on the Lord, or call someone? I understand that not everything works in practice as well as it does on paper, but it seems to me that if we can’t be faithful in something so minor, how can we expect faithfulness from others? Please advise.

Everyone should recite the Penitential Rite either including the Kyrie or followed by the Kyrie. ???

 

[YADA]

Thanks Bro Rich and Out in the Chicago Burbs,

I am glad you are confused too [sort of anyway], I was begining to think I’'d lost my mind…

I did not think a First Communion Mass has its own seperate and different Mass…just that there are first communicants present…

Unless of course there is something strange about the penetential rite or its being moved in the mass from the introductory to the communion…

It is not clear to me from the OP that there is any abuse…

 

[John_Lilburne]

I am a DRE and my pastor is insistant on having the children recite the Penitential Rite (Kyrie) during the First Communion Masses. … Please advise.

My advice is to check whether this is a liturgical abuse. It is not clear to me what the abuse is. From the rubrics of the Roman Missal’s Order of Mass:
“C. The priest (or other suitable minister) makes the following or other invocations:
i
Priest:
You were sent to heal the contrite: Lord, have mercy.
The people answer:
Lord have mercy.”
(Roman Missal, Catholic Book Publishing Co., New York, 1985, page 361).

From the 2002 General Instruction of the Roman Missal (GIRM) approved for the USA, which can be accessed from romanrite.com/girm.html :
“The Kyrie Eleison
52. After the Act of Penitence, the Kyrie is always begun, unless it has already been included as part of the Act of Penitence. Since it is a chant by which the faithful acclaim the Lord and implore his mercy, it is ordinarily done by all, that is, by the people and with the choir or cantor having a part in it.”

 

[puzzleannie]

I am a DRE and my pastor is insistant on having the children recite the Penitential Rite (Kyrie) during the First Communion Masses. He has acknowledged that it is not liturgically correct, but wishes to proceed anyways, operating under the theory that as long as we do everything right when the Bishop is present we can allow a few things here and there.

I am still not getting why this is an abuse. We recite the confiteor in the pentiential rite, and the kyria is a call/response with either the priest or the cantor and the congregation, so where is the abuse?

there is a votive Mass that can be used for first communion when it is celebrated at a time and day other than Sunday Mass. in some diocese it is permitted for the children to supply some roles, such as reader, bringing up gifts, announcing intercessions in the prayer of the faithful (NOT EMHC) and choir, if they have been properly prepared for this office.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Everyone should recite the Penitential Rite either including the Kyrie or followed by the Kyrie. ???

I meant the parts proper to each person. I’m not familar with childrens liturgies.

 

[OutinChgoburbs]

I meant the parts proper to each person. I’m not familar with childrens liturgies.

Exactly. You want the priest or deacon doing his parts, and the kids doing theirs where allowed.

At my granddaughter’s, as at her mother’s, the kids did the first two readings, the intercessions, brought up the gifts, and a song.

 

[glenaitken]

sorry it has taken me a day to clear up the practice. what is happening is that 3 children come up to the ambo and read the whole “you have come to save sinners, lord have mercy, etc.” part. I was under the understanding that this is the duty of a priest, deacon, or as is the case on most sundays, the music minister. if anyone knows differently, please let me know. i know that i don’t know every rubric and exception, but in my reading of the girm it seemed prohibited. also, quoting conciliar documents and trying to reason simply will not work- the priest is insistant on doing it his way. i’m not in a war with him or anything, but i simply want what the church wants to be done to be practiced. if it is permissible, and there are exceptions that allow for this practice, that would be fine. please advise

 

[Joannm]

sorry it has taken me a day to clear up the practice. what is happening is that 3 children come up to the ambo and read the whole “you have come to save sinners, lord have mercy, etc.” part. I was under the understanding that this is the duty of a priest, deacon, or as is the case on most sundays, the music minister. if anyone knows differently, please let me know. i know that i don’t know every rubric and exception, but in my reading of the girm it seemed prohibited. also, quoting conciliar documents and trying to reason simply will not work- the priest is insistant on doing it his way. i’m not in a war with him or anything, but i simply want what the church wants to be done to be practiced. if it is permissible, and there are exceptions that allow for this practice, that would be fine. please advise

The rubrics in the missal state “The priest (or other suitable minister) makes the following or other invocations:” and then gives several options for invocations. The commmentary I have on the GIRM states, “the minister who leads these three acclamations may be the priest, the deacon, or a lay minister. In most parishes the preest or deacon leads them, but a cantor, lector, or commentator could do so as well.” I do not know if this would include children or anyone else who is not serving in a specific liturgical role at the Mass. It sounds to me like it is a person who already has a role.

 

[John_Lilburne]

sorry it has taken me a day to clear up the practice. what is happening is that 3 children come up to the ambo and read the whole “you have come to save sinners, lord have mercy, etc.” part. I was under the understanding that this is the duty of a priest, deacon, or as is the case on most sundays, the music minister. if anyone knows differently, please let me know…

If they are using the ambo this is a liturgical abuse, failing to following 2002 GIRM n. 309:
“… From the ambo only the readings, the responsorial Psalm, and the Easter Proclamation (Exsultet) are to be proclaimed; it may be used also for giving the homily and for announcing the intentions of the Prayer of the Faithful. …”

It could be argued that the Kyrie is meant to be sung, from n. 52: “When the Kyrie is sung as a part of the Act of Penitence, a trope may precede each acclamation.” However the GIRM gives considerable flexibility in n. 40: “Although it is not always necessary (e.g., in weekday Masses) to sing all the texts that are of themselves meant to be sung, every care should be taken that singing by the ministers and the people is not absent in celebrations that occur on Sundays and on holy days of obligation.”

But I think the choice of suitable ministers depends on the parish priest. From 2002 GIRM n. 107:
“107. The liturgical duties that are not proper to the priest or the deacon and are listed above (cf. nos. 100-106) may also be entrusted by a liturgical blessing or a temporary deputation to suitable lay persons chosen by the pastor or rector of the church.”

The 1973 Directory for Masses with Children includes:
“Offices and Ministries in the Celebration
22. The principle of active and conscious participation are in a sense even more significant for Masses celebrated with children. Every effort should therefore be made to increase this participation and to make it more intense. For this reason as many children as possible should have special parts in the celebration: for example, preparing the place and the altar (see no. 29), acting as cantor (see no. 24), singing in a choir, playing musical instruments …”.
(This is from Chapter 3 “Masses with Children in Which Only a Few Adults Participate”. This is unlikely to be the case at a Frist Communion, but I can see how a priest could want to follow this approach for it.)

Clearly a child could be cantor and sing the Kyrie (from a place other than the ambo).

 

[porthos11]

I am a DRE and my pastor is insistant on having the children recite the Penitential Rite (Kyrie) during the First Communion Masses. He has acknowledged that it is not liturgically correct, but wishes to proceed anyways, operating under the theory that as long as we do everything right when the Bishop is present we can allow a few things here and there. This may be a minor infraction, but I am not sure if it is prudent to report it or if it is infact serious enough to warrent the involvement of the local ordinary. I had tried addressing this several times in the parish, but the general consensus is that the buck stops at the pastor. Should I ignore the abuse, wait on the Lord, or call someone? I understand that not everything works in practice as well as it does on paper, but it seems to me that if we can’t be faithful in something so minor, how can we expect faithfulness from others? Please advise.

First of all, what is the problem? If the Kyrie is prescribed (After the I Confess… or “Lord we have sinned against you…” it is what is expected. Can you describe the perceived abuse in more detail?

 

[puzzleannie]

If the children are serving as “cantors” for other parts of the Mass such as the responsorial psalm they can do it for this form of the Kyrie. Save your energy to fight real abuses, because if you are accurate in describing your priest’s attitude toward liturgy, you will need it.