What is Oral Tradition

[jonfan]

Catholics love to attack sola Scriptura, but when one starts to critique their rule of faith you find many more problems, many inconsistencies with the early church, and no firm basis or agreement to what it really means. For example they often switch back and forth in their definition of Oral Tradition to suit their current argument. So I have a question, what is this infallilble Oral Tradition?

1. 
   *]Is it a second body of teaching by the Apostles that was not put down in writing by passed down orally?
   
   *]Is it an intepretational guide to the Scriptures that were passed down from the Apostles?
   
   *]Is it the Holy Spirit leading the church in history to arrive at truths that may not have been passed down from the Apostles?
   
   *]Or is it something else.

1. 
   Hi Sola,
   Welcome!
   
   First we can take a look at what Paul said:
   
   ** 2 Thess 2:14. Therefore, brethren, stand fast: and hold the traditions, which you have learned, whether by word or by our epistle. **
   
   So we see here unwritten tradions are of no less important than written ones. These “sacred” tradions were passed down from Jesus to the Apostles to there followers which in turn have been passed down to this day. These traditions include The Eucharist, Confession, Baptism, etc… How do we know what the correct interpretations and the correct way to perform these sacraments are? We rely on Oral Tradition as the New Testament does not spell it out plainly. For Instance you could give a first grader a trig book but he would most likely come up with the wrong way of solving a problem from that trig book.
   Hope this helps. God bless,
   Jon

 

[kbmorri]

It’s difficult to understand sometimes without being a scholar. Sometimes you just have to have Faith. heard of it?

 

[believers]

You have missed the point.

The Genesis Messianic prophecy does not specify YOU! It specifies “the woman.”

Let’s read it:

This is the very first mention of Christ in Sacred Scripture!

Let’s look at it, line by line:

“I will put enmity”. . .Enmity means deep-seated, mutual hatred as in the case of vowed opponents.

“between you and the woman”. . .God is addressing Satan here. Satan is “you.” “The woman” is Mary.

“and between your offspring and hers”. . .Satan’s offspring is sin and death. Mary’s offspring is Jesus Christ, the Savior of the world.

“He will strike at your head”. . .Christ will strike at the head of sin and death, conquering it with the blow.

“while you strike at his heel”. . .The evil one can not prevail as his feeble attempts to strike at the heel of God are no match for God’s glorious power over sin and death.

Thus, from this first Messianic promise, God has revealed his plan for Mary as the woman who brings forth the Savior. Her deep-seated antagonism with the evil one is by virtue of her perfect cooperation with the plan of the Father.

False.

 

[believers]

Hi Sola,
Welcome!

First we can take a look at what Paul said:

** 2 Thess 2:14. Therefore, brethren, stand fast: and hold the traditions, which you have learned, whether by word or by our epistle. **

So we see here unwritten tradions are of no less important than written ones. These “sacred” tradions were passed down from Jesus to the Apostles to there followers which in turn have been passed down to this day. These traditions include The Eucharist, Confession, Baptism, etc… How do we know what the correct interpretations and the correct way to perform these sacraments are? We rely on Oral Tradition as the New Testament does not spell it out plainly. For Instance you could give a first grader a trig book but he would most likely come up with the wrong way of solving a problem from that trig book.
Hope this helps. God bless,
Jon

Did you notice where it says “or our epistle”… why don’t you read 1 Thessalonians Chapters 4-5 and find out the true traditions then stand fast and hold unto those?

 

[JonathanKinsman]

False.

This is good. What is your PERSONAL interpretation of this passage, believers?

I am sure you have one since the common sensical one which Christians have held since it was written, collected and commented upon (including Luther himself in the Large Catechism) by Catholic and Protestant writers is not to your liking.

 

[believers]

It’s difficult to understand sometimes without being a scholar. Sometimes you just have to have Faith. heard of it?

What is faith?

 

[believers]

This is good. What is your PERSONAL interpretation of this passage, believers?

I am sure you have one since the common sensical one which Christians have held since it was written, collected and commented upon (including Luther himself in the Large Catechism) by Catholic and Protestant writers is not to your liking.

The woman is Eve not Mary. Unlike the private interpretation of the RCC.

 

[JonathanKinsman]

Did you notice where it says "or our epistle

"… why don’t you read 1 Thessalonians Chapters 4-5 and find out the true traditions then stand fast and hold unto those?

believers,

I read what you recommended and I honestly have NO idea what “true traditions” you are referring to!

Chapters 4 and 5 are specific exhortations on how to act, with holiness in sexual conduct, in mutual charity and with hope for the dead. Further, to be vigilant and (among other general items of behavior) “pray without ceasing.”

A ‘tradition’ is something OLDER than a few years, believers.

St Paul’s letters were written within a generation of Jesus’ life and Resurrection.

Traditions in the NT refer to Jewish traditions (those written about in the OT).

You are making things up here. Try reading the whole epistle in context (to its audience and for what reason) before making silly remarks.

 

[HailMary]

believers your statements are not compelling and win nobody over. Stop doing apologetics just to feel good about yourself.

 

[JonathanKinsman]

The woman is Eve not Mary. Unlike the private interpretation of the RCC.

Well, if that is so, then there is NO need to worry about sinning, is there?

I mean, with enmity between Satan’s offspring and Eve’s (that’s you and me) we don’t have to work out our salvation in “fear and trembling,” nor do we need to worry about what to believe and how to live, since according to your PRIVATE interpretation (unlike mainstream Protestants and Catholics of ALL rites, including Roman) “enmity” keeps us apart.

 

[believers]

believers,

I read what you recommended and I honestly have NO idea what “true traditions” you are referring to!

Chapters 4 and 5 are specific exhortations on how to act, with holiness in sexual conduct, in mutual charity and with hope for the dead. Further, to be vigilant and (among other general items of behavior) “pray without ceasing.”

A ‘tradition’ is something OLDER than a few years, believers.

St Paul’s letters were written within a generation of Jesus’ life and Resurrection.

Traditions in the NT refer to Jewish traditions (those written about in the OT).

You are making things up here. Try reading the whole epistle in context (to its audience and for what reason) before making silly remarks.

That’s your choice whether to believe it not. Paul said it was in the his epistle. So you’re saying he’s wrong?

 

[JonathanKinsman]

That’s your choice whether to believe it not.

Paul said it was in the his epistle. So

St Paul said WHAT is in his epistle???

 

[believers]

Well, if that is so, then there is NO need to worry about sinning, is there?

I mean, with enmity between Satan’s offspring and Eve’s (that’s you and me) we don’t have to work out our salvation in “fear and trembling,” nor do we need to worry about what to believe and how to live, since according to your PRIVATE interpretation (unlike mainstream Protestants and Catholics of ALL rites, including Roman) “enmity” keeps us apart.

Should we follow the geneology from Adam all the way to Jesus?
Adam, Seth, Enos, Cainan, Mahaleel, Jared, Enoch, Methusaleh, … so an so forth to Abraham… then to David… then to Zerubbabel… then on to Joseph and Mary?

Mat 1:1
The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.

 

[believers]

St Paul said WHAT is in his epistle???

Why don’t you read the first epistle. He wrote 2 of them to the believers in Thessalonica.

2Th 2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

our epistle = 1st Thessalonians

The reason you’re having a problem with this is because none of your religions traditions are listed.

 

[JonathanKinsman]

That’s your choice whether to believe it not. Paul said it was in the his epistle. So you’re saying he’s wrong?

You keep avoiding the problem: St Paul is talking about Jewish traditions!

Christians at this time were still part of the Jewish faith. “Godfearers” (non-Jews) who believed Jesus to be God were causing arguments among the Christian Jews on matters relating to Jewish Law (diet, circumcision, sabbath observing).

You’re saying things that aren’t in this epistle.

 

[believers]

You keep avoiding the problem: St Paul is talking about Jewish traditions!

Christians at this time were still part of the Jewish faith. “Godfearers” (non-Jews) who believed Jesus to be God were causing arguments among the Christian Jews on matters relating to Jewish Law (diet, circumcision, sabbath observing).

You’re saying things that aren’t in this epistle.

You just THINK he’s referring to Jewish traditions. Paul was writing to believers in Christ. Why would he be writing to Jewish or gentile non-believers?

If you don’t understand that Paul was writing to believers in 1 and 2 Thessalonians, then we have absolutely nothing else to discuss.

 

[JonathanKinsman]

Should we follow the geneology from Adam all the way to Jesus?

Adam, Seth, Enos, Cainan, Mahaleel, Jared, Enoch, Methusaleh, … so an so forth to Abraham… then to David… then to Zerubbabel… then on to Joseph and Mary?

Mat 1:1
The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David

This is a non sequitor, believers. The question is who is God addressing in that passage.

Your interpretation does away with sin, since with ‘enmity’ between satan and Eve’s offspring there is NO TEMPTATION, NO REASON OR INCLINATION TO SIN.

The genealogy stuff is NOT ON POINT. Your argument is without merit.

You can say whatever you like, but you cannot focus on giving a direct answer to a direct question.

 

[JonathanKinsman]

You just THINK he’s referring to Jewish traditions. Paul was writing to believers in Christ. Why would he be writing to Jewish or gentile non-believers?

If you don’t understand that Paul was writing to believers in 1 and 2 Thessalonians, then we have absolutely nothing else to discuss.

I am sorry, believers. You really are having difficulty reading the exact words I have posted.

St Paul was NOT writing to “gentile non-believers,” he was writing to Jews who believed Jesus to be Messiah and to Gentiles who believed Jesus to be God Incarnate.

I listed those things you call ‘traditions’ in 1 Thess.

You ignored them and made another inane statement.

Until you understand what you are reading and understand what others are typing for you to read, I suggest you get off line and relax your eyes.

You have no idea how silly your assertions are when you pull your interpretation out of a hat.

Good night.

I have no idea where you came up with that silly statement.

 

[believers]

This is a non sequitor, believers. The question is who is God addressing in that passage.

Your interpretation does away with sin, since with ‘enmity’ between satan and Eve’s offspring there is NO TEMPTATION, NO REASON OR INCLINATION TO SIN.

The genealogy stuff is NOT ON POINT. Your argument is without merit.

You can say whatever you like, but you cannot focus on giving a direct answer to a direct question.

What are you talking about? How exactly does “my” interpretation do away with sin?

 

[believers]

I am sorry, believers. You really are having difficulty reading the exact words I have posted.

St Paul was NOT writing to “gentile non-believers,” he was writing to Jews who believed Jesus to be Messiah and to Gentiles who believed Jesus to be God Incarnate.

I listed those things you call ‘traditions’ in 1 Thess.

You ignored them and made another inane statement.

Until you understand what you are reading and understand what others are typing for you to read, I suggest you get off line and relax your eyes.

You have no idea how silly your assertions are when you pull your interpretation out of a hat.

Good night.

I have no idea where you came up with that silly statement.

And NOT ONCE could you prove your Mary theory with scripture.