What is Papal Authority?

[noma]

I prescribed contraceptives for years and have studied the information and the fact is there is no direct evidence that OCs are abortifacients; however, there is the potential.

I thank you very much for your (name removed by moderator)ut, and will consider it carefully.

However, at this time, I find no reason to accept that this potential is high enough to change my thoughts or actions.

 

[astegallrnc]

I thank you very much for your imput, and will consider it carefully.

However, at this time, I find no reason to accept that this potential is high enough to affect my family’s use of oral contraception.

You are welcome! I hope you review other resources although you won’t find stats on how often early miscarriage occurs. It isn’t an area of research for apparent reasons.

Merck is a wonderful reference for general/basic information but not the reference I would recommend for more specific information.

God bless,
Autumn

 

[lurdes]

noma if you don’t want to be a Catholic you don’t have to, like Jesus said he will call his flock and they will hear him and came, not everyone can enter the Catholic church you have to be open to the Holy Spirit, and right now you have the spirit of contradiction no matter how much we say or prove to you, you will always find something to argue about. the only thing we as Catholics can do is to pray for you. May the Holy Spirit lead you to the Church of Christ.

 

[steve_b]

Hello all!

I am back, after a time wrestling with things. And I have left the Roman Catholic Church (I stopped going to mass, and am about to make my dissent public). I felt as though it was important to wait until Easter, but the more study I do, the more I come to the point where it is clear that I am not going to be Roman Catholic.

However, though I am not going to be Catholic, I need to find out what kind of Christian I am going to be. It is important to know whether there is one true visible Church, or whether the Church is invisible. This will likely be the topic of the next thread I start.

As for this thread, I would first like to explain and defend why I deny the Pope the authority the Catholic Church gives him.

What the Roman Catholic Church teaches:

That all of his teachings concerning faith and morals, spoken ex-cathedra, should be held to be infallible.

And that all his teachings about faith and morals, even if not spoken ex-cathedra, should be assented to fully.

Why I disagree:

After reading through each specific verse in Scripture concerning this, and after reading the statements of the Church Fathers, it is clear that (if we submit both to the teachings of Scripture and the Church Fathers) the Bishop of Rome should be given some special authority above all the rest of the Bishops. But I have seen no good reason to accept that this authority defends at all the statements above.

The main reason, however, is that I actively disagree with some of the things the Pope has officially taught (that the Pope is Infallible in the manner listed above, the Immaculate Conception, Contraception and other sexual teachings, that the Apocrypha should be held to be equal in authority to the rest of the Scriptures, among other things).

What’s in red is a big subject.

Contraception, abortion, divorce & remarriage, adultry, fornication, homosexuality, etc, are all mortal sins. Why mortal and not venial? Sins that keep a soul out of heaven, are mortal (deadly) Don’t think you can leave the Catholic Church, join another in hopes of getting a lax code of conduct thereby escaping unpleasant realities. It doesn’t work that way.

You might ask, does the bible talk about mortal and venial sin? Absolutely.

1 Jn 5: (emphasis mine)

16If anyone sees his brother commit a sin that does not lead to death,(venial) he should pray and God will give him life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death (mortal). I am not saying that he should pray about that. 17All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does not lead to death.(venial)

Note: John says venial sin can be prayed for, but not mortal sin. That’s because mortal sins must be resolved by the sacrament of confession.

You might ask does the bible identify which are Mortal sins (deadly sin)? Yes. By definition, they are those sins that keep a soul from heaven, because they kill sanctifying grace in the soul.

Which are they?

Gal 5:

19 sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

1 Cor 6:

Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God

1 Jn 3:

no murderer has eternal life in him.

BTW, regarding ABC (artificial birth control) i.e. birth control pills, they are abrotifacients. Don’t let anybody tell you otherwise.

prolifephysicians.org/abortifacient.htm

pfli.org/faq_oc.html

quiverfull.com/birth_control/pill_abortifacient.html

 

[steve_b]

One of the mechanisms of action of the pill is to thin the endometrial lining. This information is in found several resources including the prescribing information and Merck Manual:
“The endometrium becomes thin”
merck.com/mmpe/sec18/ch255/ch255b.html#sec18-ch255-ch255b-722

From the resources I used when I prescribed:
“Implantation is hampered by the production of a decidualized endometrial bed with exhausted and atrophied glands.” Contracpetive Technology

“The progestin in the combination pill produces an endometrium that is not receptive to ovum implantation, a decidualized bed with exhausted and atrophied glands.” Clinical Gynecologic Endocinology and Infertility

“Alteration in endometrial lining, preventing implantation…”
Managing Contraceptive Pill Patients

HTH!
Autumn

As you know, with OC’s

• Breakthrough pregnancies still occur and spontaneous abortions occur as well
• Fertilizations without implantations occur, a certain percentage of the time also, which as you know is a human life at that point which gets expelled…
  This is why OC’s are abortifacients.

 

[guanophore]

Hello all!

I am back, after a time wrestling with things. And I have left the Roman Catholic Church (I stopped going to mass, and am about to make my dissent public). I felt as though it was important to wait until Easter, but the more study I do, the more I come to the point where it is clear that I am not going to be Roman Catholic.

However, though I am not going to be Catholic, I need to find out what kind of Christian I am going to be. It is important to know whether there is one true visible Church, or whether the Church is invisible. This will likely be the topic of the next thread I start.

Blessings upon your journey. I embarked upon the same one, having come to the conclusion that the Roman Catholic faith into which I was born and raised was empty for me. I spent many years, three of them in a Protestant Seminary, trying to learn where I belonged. In the end, I came out more Catholic than ever!

As for this thread, I would first like to explain and defend why I deny the Pope the authority the Catholic Church gives him.

This will be a very short thread,then, because the Catholic Church does not give ANY authority to the Pope. Authority was given to Jesus, and he passed it on to Peter, and the other Apostles. All authority comes from God.

What the Roman Catholic Church teaches:

That all of his teachings concerning faith and morals, spoken ex-cathedra, should be held to be infallible.

And that all his teachings about faith and morals, even if not spoken ex-cathedra, should be assented to fully.

Why I disagree:

After reading through each specific verse in Scripture concerning this, and after reading the statements of the Church Fathers, it is clear that (if we submit both to the teachings of Scripture and the Church Fathers) the Bishop of Rome should be given some special authority above all the rest of the Bishops. But I have seen no good reason to accept that this authority defends at all the statements above.

What do you think were the “keys” that were given to Peter?

The main reason, however, is that I actively disagree with some of the things the Pope has officially taught (that the Pope is Infallible in the manner listed above, the Immaculate Conception, Contraception and other sexual teachings, that the Apocrypha should be held to be equal in authority to the rest of the Scriptures, among other things).

None of these teachings have origination with the Pope. These are the beliefs of the Catholic Church, handed down to us from teh Apostles. It is the duty of the Pope to teach what was handed down, but these things were believed before he was born! How can you blame them on him?

One think I have come to learn on this forum is that the vast majority of objections to the Catholic Church originate below the waist.

What’s next:

Either the Church is protected from error from the beginning, or it is not. If it is, then I should become Orthodox. If it is not, but rather is in a realm of uncertainty evolving toward inerrant teaching through God’s Love, or is necessarily and perpetually in uncertainty until Christ returns, then I should become Protestant.

At this time, I find neither view holds much over the other.

These are the two things I hope to discuss here.

How does the charism of infallibility make you more Orthodox? I am curious about that.

 

[lurdes]

Hello all!

I am back, after a time wrestling with things. And I have left the Roman Catholic Church (I stopped going to mass, and am about to make my dissent public). I felt as though it was important to wait until Easter, but the more study I do, the more I come to the point where it is clear that I am not going to be Roman Catholic.

However, though I am not going to be Catholic, I need to find out what kind of Christian I am going to be. It is important to know whether there is one true visible Church, or whether the Church is invisible. This will likely be the topic of the next thread I start.

As for this thread, I would first like to explain and defend why I deny the Pope the authority the Catholic Church gives him.

What the Roman Catholic Church teaches:

That all of his teachings concerning faith and morals, spoken ex-cathedra, should be held to be infallible.

And that all his teachings about faith and morals, even if not spoken ex-cathedra, should be assented to fully.

Why I disagree:

After reading through each specific verse in Scripture concerning this, and after reading the statements of the Church Fathers, it is clear that (if we submit both to the teachings of Scripture and the Church Fathers) the Bishop of Rome should be given some special authority above all the rest of the Bishops. But I have seen no good reason to accept that this authority defends at all the statements above.

The main reason, however, is that I actively disagree with some of the things the Pope has officially taught (that the Pope is Infallible in the manner listed above, the Immaculate Conception, Contraception and other sexual teachings, that the Apocrypha should be held to be equal in authority to the rest of the Scriptures, among other things).

What’s next:

Either the Church is protected from error from the beginning, or it is not. If it is, then I should become Orthodox. If it is not, but rather is in a realm of uncertainty evolving toward inerrant teaching through God’s Love, or is necessarily and perpetually in uncertainty until Christ returns, then I should become Protestant.

At this time, I find neither view holds much over the other.

These are the two things I hope to discuss here.

How sad that you have left the truth just because you don’t understand the whys instead of researching the history and why the Church teaches what it does. The Bishop of Rome ( the Pope) is not infallible of his own he’s only infallible when it cames to the teachings that GOD has command him. At the beginning Jesus chose Peter in Matt 16:16-20 more clear then it can’t be. you have to ask the Holy Spirit to give you knowledge about the word of God. Now there is another verse that to me proves that Jesus was giving Peter the job of his successor John 21:15-17 so you see Peter is the one Jesus told to feed us, care for us and to tend to us as Peter knew that his hour was near he of course had to leave the next successor who will lead the Church of Jesus.
I hope and pray to GOD that you will find the truth, you can also read the fathers of the church.