"What is (pro-) Life?

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This article by the communications director of Catholics in Alliance for the Common Good was like a breath of fresh air in the cliche-laden “Culture War” verbosity.

ncronline.org/news/politics/redefining-term-pro-life
I am sure it is like a breath of fresh air for those looking for any excuse to water down what abortion really is. It is a good way for them to ease their own conscience to stay in bed with the party of death.

I do know that there are some that fight vocally within their party to change the democrats hardcore pro choice stance, but it is very rare to hear them speak out against their party.
 
It must be discomforting to those on the extreme right to have their “just say no” approach put under close scrutiny. Their “solution” to this problem seems so simple and feels so comforting–no thought required…but I wonder who it is designed to comfort, themselves or the people caught in a painful dilemma.
 
It must be discomforting to those on the extreme right to have their “just say no” approach put under close scrutiny. Their “solution” to this problem seems so simple and feels so comforting–no thought required…but I wonder who it is designed to comfort, themselves or the people caught in a painful dilemma.
It is designed to comfort the unborn human beings to try and keep them from being brutally killed.

Do you think abortion is anything other than that?
 
It is designed to comfort the unborn human beings to try and keep them from being brutally killed.

Do you think abortion is anything other than that?
The fate of the fetus is one central part of abortion, certainly. So is the health and well-being of the pregnant girl/woman, and lastly that of other loved ones. What makes me pro-choice and not pro-abortion is an awareness that two lives are directly involved and affected. Were it only the life of the pregant female that mattered, then I would be “pro-abortion.” The apparent fact that the well-being of the female is never overtly considered by those who wish to criminalize this procedure leads me to conclude that they not truly pro-life, but simply “pro-birth.”
 
The fate of the fetus is one central part of abortion, certainly. So is the health and well-being of the pregnant girl/woman, and lastly that of other loved ones. What makes me pro-choice and not pro-abortion is an awareness that two lives are directly involved and affected. Were it only the life of the pregant female that mattered, then I would be “pro-abortion.” The apparent fact that the well-being of the female is never overtly considered by those who wish to criminalize this procedure leads me to conclude that they not truly pro-life, but simply “pro-birth.”
Did you just make that up about the well being of the female never considered?

You substitute fetus for baby,
Procedure for abortion.
Then make something up about the well being of the female never considered.

Do you believe the baby is a human being at all?

Your views are very extreme left and also very anti Catholic.
 
The fate of the fetus is one central part of abortion, certainly. So is the health and well-being of the pregnant girl/woman, and lastly that of other loved ones. What makes me pro-choice and not pro-abortion is an awareness that two lives are directly involved and affected. Were it only the life of the pregant female that mattered, then I would be “pro-abortion.” The apparent fact that the well-being of the female is never overtly considered by those who wish to criminalize this procedure leads me to conclude that they not truly pro-life, but simply “pro-birth.”
I, for one, am confused by some of the terminology you have used.

“The well-being of the female” is very vague. If you mean that for some reason, the life of the mother is threatened: she has a dangerous disease, she was severely injured, she requires invasive surgery to live, then, yes, the church does permit her to receive those necessary treatments even if the life of the baby would be jeopardized. This is permitted were the abortion is not the intended procedure, but an unintended consequence of the treatment the woman requires to protect her life. No crime would be committed and this would be permitted by the church. This is a pro-life stance.

“The fate of the fetus,” those words sound carefully selected. If you meant, “What happens to the child who is aborted,” then, yes, it is perhaps THE central object of abortion: the child is killed. Yes, there are family issues, social issues, financial issues, but that the child was killed remains the central object of the abortion.

“…lastly that of other loved ones,” is immaterial here. So what if the grandmother will be inconvenienced? So what if this will be a financial burden to the father? Should those considerations allow killing the baby?

There is a lot of child abuse in the world, many families provide a bad environment for children, money is tight, some would have to give up their jobs if they had a child, some children will be born with birth defects and illnesses. None of these is a good reason to kill a baby. We in the christian community are required to help in these instances.

What abortions only in cases of rape and incest? The baby is innocent. Even if abortion were permitted in those specific limited cases, the numbers would be a minuscule fraction of what we have today.

In this day and age, even pregnancies that are terminated early for medical reasons, result in a child which might be viable outside the womb with proper medical care. In many of those cases where the mother must terminate her pregnancy because of potential damage to the baby due to her receipt of necessary medical care, even then the life of the baby may be preserved under certain circumstances.
 
It must be discomforting to those on the extreme right to have their “just say no” approach put under close scrutiny.
Which do you think would be more effective for any other issue, let’s say slavery. If it was one or the other, should we have tried to figure out “the root cause” of slavery, pass anti-poverty measure, (Or in this case, pro-poverty measure, so noone could afford slaves), or just ban slavery? Which do you think would be more effective? Now it’s not one or the other in this case, you can both ban abortion and adress the root causes. The difference is that we can adress the root causes on our own, but to ban it we need politicians.
 
Before we get any further, we might as well save some time. This is a fetus.

Is it a human or not?
 
The fate of the fetus is one central part of abortion, certainly. So is the health and well-being of the pregnant girl/woman, and lastly that of other loved ones. What makes me pro-choice and not pro-abortion is an awareness that two lives are directly involved and affected. Were it only the life of the pregant female that mattered, then I would be “pro-abortion.” The apparent fact that the well-being of the female is never overtly considered by those who wish to criminalize this procedure leads me to conclude that they not truly pro-life, but simply “pro-birth.”
Only in rare cases does the health of the women even equate into n abortion. In fact telling a woman that abortion is okay is not even caring for the woman. Women regret their abortions and sometimes become very suicidal. You are telling a woman that it is okay to kill her child. Abortion is the direct horrific murder of a child. There is no dancing around it.

I really hate it when someone states that they are pro-choice because they care about women, when in fact being pro-choice is not caring at all about women.
 
There are many aspects to pro - life.

Even though many would have you think it all boils down to one (abortion) it doesn’t.

There are many on both sides of this issue –

But know that in the Church’s teachings — there are many topics that enter into its teaching about pro - life.
 
There are many aspects to pro - life.

Even though many would have you think it all boils down to one (abortion) it doesn’t.

There are many on both sides of this issue –

But know that in the Church’s teachings — there are many topics that enter into its teaching about pro - life.
You are confusing what the pro abortionists have done to make many think what pro life means.
 
This is kind of the problem the pro-life movement has in America, or how I see it. On one hand you have the Republicans “championing” rights for the unborn but neglecting their mothers and their poverty strictened situations. How can one save an unborn child without saving the mother first?

I strongly dislike the democratic party’s view on abortion, but their social policies are more likely to save the unborn then destory them

To me, being Pro-Life is more then just wanting to save the foetus, its about saving the mother. If we give her stronger social supports, better finanical security, if we give free ante-natal, maternity and post-natal care, if we protect her from discrimination in the workplace, if we ensure she can continue her education while pregnant, if we can protect her from abuse from a partner, then we will save the foetus.

The vaste majority of women aren’t satisfying some blood lust when they seek an abortion, for them they don’t want the death of the foetus, they’re trying to remove what they view as a problem that could interefer with their lives, the baby.

The foetus, the baby, these are not the problem. Its the society, the same society that says “abortion is bad”, but allows it anyway. The society that says “pro-choice” but then doesn’t offer any real choice.

I’ve met so many post abortive women and they don’t tell me they wanted an abortion because they wanted to kill the foetus, they had an abortion because they couldn’t afford another baby, or because they couldn’t get any more time off work, or because they were studying or because their boyfriend demanded it. It might be a “choice”, but it’d be like saying, would you rather be shot or stabbed? Both are **** choices, both lead to harm.

Society, and in particular the pro-life movement, needs to put its money where its’ mouth is and provide the woman with what she needs. What kind of society are we that we allow a child to be murdered, that we allow the death of a child, a permenant action for things that we can change? We can change the fiscal assistance we give to women, we can change and strengthen job protection laws, we can make it easier for her to continue her education, we can kick the boyfriend’s backside who abuses her, yet instead of doing the harder things, instead of solving the real problems, we just kill children.

Its societal laziness and greed. And we have 52 million dead children as a result.

If we want to save the foetus/baby, we have to save the mother.

Abortion is murder, it is one of the worst sins immagineable, having an abortion for whatever sad reason does not limit its result, but unless we take away those “reasons” for abortion, we in the pro-life movement are just trying to catch air in a colinder.
 
This is kind of the problem the pro-life movement has in America, or how I see it. On one hand you have the Republicans “championing” rights for the unborn but neglecting their mothers and their poverty strictened situations. How can one save an unborn child without saving the mother first?

Are you kidding? The Pro-life conservatives, don’t care about the mother? have you ever looked around to see who is taking care of the mothers? There are more clinics, housing etc for expectant mothers. What does the liberals have to offer a woman who is in a bad situation? Oh that is right abortion.

I strongly dislike the democratic party’s view on abortion, but their social policies are more likely to save the unborn then destory them

Name one policy that they have that will not destroy the child. Or even one that cares about the child.

To me, being Pro-Life is more then just wanting to save the foetus, its about saving the mother. If we give her stronger social supports, better finanical security, if we give free ante-natal, maternity and post-natal care, if we protect her from discrimination in the workplace, if we ensure she can continue her education while pregnant, if we can protect her from abuse from a partner, then we will save the foetus.

And this is exactly what the pro-life movement does. I live in a very small town where we have a home for the mother and her child to stay in rent free for up to two years. And we don’t advocate killing her child as an option, because it never is. Also we give free sonograms for the mothers.

The vaste majority of women aren’t satisfying some blood lust when they seek an abortion, for them they don’t want the death of the foetus, they’re trying to remove what they view as a problem that could interefer with their lives, the baby.

You are right, but places like Planned Parenthood are. And these are places that the liberal Dem are supporting.

The foetus, the baby, these are not the problem. Its the society, the same society that says “abortion is bad”, but allows it anyway. The society that says “pro-choice” but then doesn’t offer any real choice.

agreed

I’ve met so many post abortive women and they don’t tell me they wanted an abortion because they wanted to kill the foetus, they had an abortion because they couldn’t afford another baby, or because they couldn’t get any more time off work, or because they were studying or because their boyfriend demanded it. It might be a “choice”, but it’d be like saying, would you rather be shot or stabbed? Both are **** choices, both lead to harm.

agreed. But the pro-life group offers these post abortive women the help they need. Something the left never does.

Society, and in particular the pro-life movement, needs to put its money where its’ mouth is and provide the woman with what she needs. What kind of society are we that we allow a child to be murdered, that we allow the death of a child, a permenant action for things that we can change? We can change the fiscal assistance we give to women, we can change and strengthen job protection laws, we can make it easier for her to continue her education, we can kick the boyfriend’s backside who abuses her, yet instead of doing the harder things, instead of solving the real problems, we just kill children.

You really need to get off your behind and see what it is we do. Because we do all of this already.

Its societal laziness and greed. And we have 52 million dead children as a result.

If we want to save the foetus/baby, we have to save the mother.

Abortion is murder, it is one of the worst sins immagineable, having an abortion for whatever sad reason does not limit its result, but unless we take away those “reasons” for abortion, we in the pro-life movement are just trying to catch air in a colinder.
 
You are confusing what the pro abortionists have done to make many think what pro life means.
I am not going to say what I feel about abortion, but I will say this: BOTH sides need to stop demonizing each other. First, the pro life side needs to stop calling people who are pro-choice “pro-abortion”, because many of them are not. They see abortion as a serious thing, and not a choice that is made lightly, which it is not. Being faced with unwanted pregnancy is scary, especially when you are poor. It’s a hard decision, and all who make the choice to abort are faced with stigma, and called a horrendous amount of vial things. Not all pro-life people do this, but the most extreme do.

Secondly, pro-choice people need to stop calling pro-life “anti-women”. They need to realize that they do care about women, and they care about the child she is carrying. They want the best for her and want her to be safe. That’s what it comes down to. Thy do care, deeply, and pro-choice people need to realize this.

Both sides need to sit down and talk, and actually listen to what the other is saying. I know plenty on both sides who refuse to talk, and will hurl insults at the other. These debates get ugly, and there needs to be some kind of middle ground to reduce the need for abortion.
 
I am not going to say what I feel about abortion, but I will say this: BOTH sides need to stop demonizing each other. First, the pro life side needs to stop calling people who are pro-choice “pro-abortion”, because many of them are not. They see abortion as a serious thing, and not a choice that is made lightly, which it is not. Being faced with unwanted pregnancy is scary, especially when you are poor. It’s a hard decision, and all who make the choice to abort are faced with stigma, and called a horrendous amount of vial things. Not all pro-life people do this, but the most extreme do.

Secondly, pro-choice people need to stop calling pro-life “anti-women”. They need to realize that they do care about women, and they care about the child she is carrying. They want the best for her and want her to be safe. That’s what it comes down to. Thy do care, deeply, and pro-choice people need to realize this.

Both sides need to sit down and talk, and actually listen to what the other is saying. I know plenty on both sides who refuse to talk, and will hurl insults at the other. These debates get ugly, and there needs to be some kind of middle ground to reduce the need for abortion.
I think we need to have people see the truth. And what abortion really is. There is no tip toeing around what it is. People are dying, we need to stop it, now.
 
I am not going to say what I feel about abortion, but I will say this: BOTH sides need to stop demonizing each other. First, the pro life side needs to stop calling people who are pro-choice “pro-abortion”, because many of them are not. They see abortion as a serious thing, and not a choice that is made lightly, which it is not. Being faced with unwanted pregnancy is scary, especially when you are poor. It’s a hard decision, and all who make the choice to abort are faced with stigma, and called a horrendous amount of vial things. Not all pro-life people do this, but the most extreme do.

Secondly, pro-choice people need to stop calling pro-life “anti-women”. They need to realize that they do care about women, and they care about the child she is carrying. They want the best for her and want her to be safe. That’s what it comes down to. Thy do care, deeply, and pro-choice people need to realize this.

Both sides need to sit down and talk, and actually listen to what the other is saying. I know plenty on both sides who refuse to talk, and will hurl insults at the other. These debates get ugly, and there needs to be some kind of middle ground to reduce the need for abortion.
That is very confusing, pro choice means it is ok to have an abortion. How is that not pro abortion?

The pro choice people such as planned parenthood have made good people like you actually believe that the term pro choice is anything other than pro abortion.
 
orignally posted by: St. Lucyare you kidding? The pro-life conservatives, don’t care about the mother? Have you ever looked around to see who is taking care of the mothers? There are more clinics, housing etc for expectant mothers. What does the liberals have to offer a woman who is in a bad situation? Oh that is right abortion.
I’m talking about it from a governmental policy thing, not a “on the ground, in the trenches” sort of thing.
Name one policy that they have that will not destroy the child. Or even one that cares about the child.
Again, governmental. The Democrats are historically more likely to back social security and other such assistance programmes. A woman who can get the dole while she’s pregnant is more likely to keep her child then abort it. Of course, with a democratic party, comes the pro-abortion policies that might make it easier to get an aboriton. But with that said, at least it balances the choice.
And this is exactly what the pro-life movement does. I live in a very small town where we have a home for the mother and her child to stay in rent free for up to two years. And we don’t advocate killing her child as an option, because it never is. Also we give free sonograms for the mothers.
And? I live in NZL we have free maternity care. A pregnant woman can choose a midwife, GP, or even a specalist OB/GYN if she wants, all picked up by the govt. tab.

The Pro-Life movement does more at the grass routes, in case you haven’t been paying attention, I’m talking about governmental policies not what a small community does.
You really need to get off your behind and see what it is we do. Because we do all of this already.
Excuse me? You are in no position to make any comment about me getting off my behind, you have no idea what I do for the pro-life movement or the assistance I give to mothers, so please don’t jump to conclusions about my view point or lack of it regarding the grass routes advances.

I know a lot about the grass routes pro-life movement in America.

Again, what I am talking about is the governmental policy. The grass routes assistance would be a lot easier and more readily available of governmental policy reflected a willingness to assist.
 
That is very confusing, pro choice means it is ok to have an abortion. How is that not pro abortion?

The pro choice people such as planned parenthood have made good people like you actually believe that the term pro choice is anything other than pro abortion.
It’s not “Pro-Abortion” and this is exactly what I am talking about. People who are pro-choice are not gung-ho about abortion, and they don’t like them any more than you do. Most people who are pro-choice want the choice to be there, and for people to be able to make that choice, but are also trying to look for ways to reduce the need for it. They want every child to be wanted and loved.
 
The fate of the fetus is one central part of abortion, certainly. So is the health and well-being of the pregnant girl/woman, and lastly that of other loved ones. What makes me pro-choice and not pro-abortion is an awareness that two lives are directly involved and affected. Were it only the life of the pregant female that mattered, then I would be “pro-abortion.” The apparent fact that the well-being of the female is never overtly considered by those who wish to criminalize this procedure leads me to conclude that they not truly pro-life, but simply “pro-birth.”
If you ask me, you can’t be “pro-choice” without being pro-abortion. If the pro-choice people are really so for choice then how come they are against the choice of being pro-life? 🤷:confused:
 
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