What is Prophecy?

[sirach2v4]

I Co 14 seems to imply that we should all seek the gift of prophecy.

What is this gift? Can we all have it? What should we do with it? How does it differ from merely stating my opinion about something?

 

[grannymh]

I Co 14 seems to imply that we should all seek the gift of prophecy.

What is this gift? Can we all have it? What should we do with it? How does it differ from merely stating my opinion about something?

St. Paul is referring back to 1 Corinthians 12: 4-10, in which he lists the nine classical gifts or ministries including Prophesy. This gift is an unique manifestation of the Holy Spirit whereby the person gives God’s message in the vernacular for the assembled community or for an individual. Its primary use is to build up the Church.

Prophesy is not a gift which a person possesses. Rather it is a yielding to God so that God uses the person to speak God’s thoughts. It is yielding to God’s action. This ministry requires spiritual maturity, a deep, personal life of prayer, and study of the gift with those who already use the gift. Skilled discernment by an appropriate person is needed. Normally, the person is part of an established Catholic Charismatic Renewal group and uses prayer tongues along with other devotions. She or he is totally committed to the practice of Catholicism including the Sacraments of the Holy Eucharist and of Confession/Reconciliation.

Since we are in the 21st century, we have to recognize that the people in Corinth regularly practiced the nine basic gifts or ministries specifically listed by St. Paul in addition to the common gift of praying in tongues. In 1 Corinthians, chapter 14, St. Paul was correcting some of the usual abuses which can occur. Like today, some of St. Paul’s beloved Corinthians were becoming so pride-filled about praying in tongues, that they overlooked the need to minister to the Church as a community depending on God’s presence. Most of chapter 14 is contrasting the gift of praying to God with the gift of speaking God’s message to the assembled community. St. Paul was not criticizing the gift of praying in tongues; he was getting the people back on the evangelization track of bringing God’s words and power to the Church community so that the community could bring the message of Jesus Christ to the world.

This link is to the book, A Key to Charismatic Renewal in the Catholic Church by Msgr. Vincent M. Walsh. ISBN:0-87029-033-9
It has detailed answers to your questions.

brendancase.com/uploads/Key_to_the_Charismatic_Renewal.pdf

 

[sirach2v4]

I have skimmed that document around page 60 and the remarks about prophecy.

I found something in a library book called The Interpreter’s Bible about prophecy and it is much more succinct, at least in the definition. I’ll have to come back with that idea.

But, the information in that link seems to be a far cry from what Paul is talking about in 1 Co 14, to wit:

24 But if everyone is prophesying, and an unbeliever or uninstructed person should come in, he will be convinced by everyone and judged by everyone, 25 and the secrets of his heart will be disclosed, and he he will fall down, and worship God, declaring, “God is really in your midst.”

There is really an opportunity for false prophecy, but these verses suggest that a large number of people might be able to prophecy, i.e. to give witness to their faith, and impress the unbeliever or uninstructed person.

Paul’s words are difficult to understand, since we normally don’t call people apostles anymore (perhaps the Mormons do). I’ve heard of a Charismatic priest who asserted that he had the gift of prophecy, short of calling himself a prophet.

This is all interesting, but I am interested in the common gift of prophecy, which the apostle seems to be referring to, above.

 

[grannymh]

I Co 14 seems to imply that we should all seek the gift of prophecy.

What is this gift? Can we all have it? What should we do with it? How does it differ from merely stating my opinion about something?

When we talk about the ministry of prophesy, we must keep in mind that on a daily basis, the Holy Spirit is inspiring us to speak God’s love to others. We ordinary folk are often internally prompted to say something special to someone else. Jesus calls us to carry out His work. When we say to God “Here I am”, God responds.

 

[grannymh]

I have skimmed that document around page 60 and the remarks about prophecy.

I found something in a library book called The Interpreter’s Bible about prophecy and it is much more succinct, at least in the definition. I’ll have to come back with that idea.

But, the information in that link seems to be a far cry from what Paul is talking about in 1 Co 14, to wit:

24 But if everyone is prophesying, and an unbeliever or uninstructed person should come in, he will be convinced by everyone and judged by everyone, 25 and the secrets of his heart will be disclosed, and he will fall down, and worship God, declaring, “God is really in your midst.”

My suggestion is to couple verses 24 and 25 with verse 31 “For you can all prophesy one by one, so that all may learn and be encouraged.” This is an affirmation that the Gift of Prophesy was a common occurrence in Corinth. The reason it was common was that St. Paul was in Corinth teaching and preaching the nine gifts. The way St. Paul talks in verse 26 “When you assemble…” the normal preparation for these gifts is assumed.

The Catholic Charismatic Renewal by renewing the Pentecostal Gifts, especially the nine classical gifts and the common gift of praying in tongues, needed to re-learn what the Corinthians already knew.

There is really an opportunity for false prophecy, but these verses suggest that a large number of people might be able to prophecy, i.e. to give witness to their faith, and impress the unbeliever or uninstructed person.

Because there is plenty of opportunity for false prophesy is why the ninth gift, Discernment of Spirits, is essential.

Paul’s words are difficult to understand, since we normally don’t call people apostles anymore (perhaps the Mormons do).

Amen.

I’ve heard of a Charismatic priest who asserted that he had the gift of prophecy, short of calling himself a prophet.

This is possible because of the Renewal. I am not sure of the exact process by which Catholic dioceses accept or validate individuals who claim prophecy or some of the other gifts.

This is all interesting, but I am interested in the common gift of prophecy, which the apostle seems to be referring to, above.

When it comes to the classical gift of prophecy, one has to go beyond the basics in the Msgr. Vincent Walsh link. There is plenty of information about the gifts. On a national level, there are workshops on the gifts. Catholic Charismatic Renewal groups often have local conferences which offer lectures or workshops on the gifts.

My suggestion is to check with a local Catholic books and gift store for books on prophesy. Or contact the diocesan liaison for the Renewal by calling the diocesan office. If there is a local parish group, contact them.

I found this pamphlet Understanding and Exercising the Gift of Prophecy by Chuck Hornsby on the national Catholic Charismatic Renewal website.
nsc-chariscenter.org/Resources/EBooks.asp

Home page, with menu on the left. A conference will be held in Pittsburg.
nsc-chariscenter.org/index.asp

Here is a list of local events.
nsc-chariscenter.org/Events/conferences.asp

I apologize for not having more exact sources for you. I have not been a part of a Charismatic prayer group for years. I can answer questions about Tongues.

May the Holy Spirit bless you and guide you in your search.

 

[Bob_Crowley]

…

This is all interesting, but I am interested in the common gift of prophecy, which the apostle seems to be referring to, above.

To start with, I thought I’d give a link to an interview with the then Cardinal Ratzinger in 1999, on this issue.

catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?recnum=6439

I’ve had the same trouble trying to pin down what’s meant by “prophecy” or “prophet” as you do,

In some ways the OT prophets were a bit easier to define, since most of their proclamations or writings referred to Israel, in one way or another. Generally they were calling the people back to God, sometimes using language which wouldn’t mean much to us. Sometimes they would refer to future events, such as historical judgements, or the birth of the Messiah. But it was usually in veiled language, and there was never a date given.

The NT concept of prophecy is harder to grasp in my opinion. It doesn’t mean a soothsayer, in the sense of a future fortune teller. That ordinary people had this gift is quite obvious from Paul’s letter to the Corinthians, and I don’t see why it couldn’t be the case again 2000 years later.

But who were the local Corinthian people prophesying to? By and large it would have to have been each other, unless they were persons of influence on the political or social scene.

So their prophetic utterances were meant for the edification of each other, whether as personal warnings, encouragements or advice, presumably while they were under the influence of the Holy Spirit.

Now I’m a bit biased, as I knew an old pastor who was “prophetic” in the sense that if said he thought something was going to happen, I found it nearly always did. But it always had a personal or spiritual relevance.

In one of his sermons for example, in which he had largely spoken on abortion in Australia, he finished with the words, “… if we keep going the way we are, I see nothing ahead of us but judgment!”

Will that be a prophetic utterance? Time will tell.

To give a strange personal example (and I’ve brought this up before), he once said to me “I think you’ll be doing a cleaning job. You won’t be doing it for long, and you won’t like it much, but I think the Lord will just want you to hear about a ghost.” There was a bit more, but I’ll leave that out to save time.

Now I thought it was silly. Now that would have been around 1990/91 as he died himself in January 1992. Fast forward to 2006, and I did a cleaning job for about 4 months, didn’t like it much, and heard about a ghost, a former manager who killed himself way back in the 1960’s. As part of the process of getting a mass said for him, I ended up emailing a new assistant priest, the only Australian priest I’d seen on this forum,** who just happened to be located at the very church which was closest to the “haunted site”.**

Only Australian priest I’d seen! At the nearest church! And he just happened to be on this forum! At the time I needed to figure out what to do about it!

Now this same priest is currently located in the Cathedral office (or he was the last I knew about it). So I’m wondering if the old pastor’s prophetic utterance will have some further relevance around the track, or if you like, WHY DID THE LORD JUST WANT (ME) TO HEAR ABOUT A GHOST?

Will there be further developments from the old pastor’s prophetic utterance for me personally? Will it have wider ramifications for the local church? I don’t know. But his prophetic prediction came true, even though I doubted it.

Now that’s a personal example. That old pastor clearly had the gift of prophecy. Yet I don’t recall him ever speaking in tongues. He wasn’t a Pentecostal pastor, but he was a holy man. And a wise one. So in his case, the common(?) gift of prophecy was alive and well.

 

[sirach2v4]

This is the excerpt that I promised in a preceding post:

From The Interpreter’s Bible, G.A. Buttrick, et al., eds, Abingdon-Cokesbury Press, 1953. Vol. 10, page 169: *** (at my local public library)***

“The Corinthians coveted [the] gift of eloquence both because of its undoubted power and because of the opportunity for self-display. Paul thought such speech unworthy to deal with great matters pertaining to the Christian faith. It was a mark of a man in love with himself rather than his subject. It was of little value as the booming of a gong or the clanging of a cymbal.”
[then, a bit further …]
“Paul seemingly ranks the gift of prophecy very high (1 Co 14:3-5), and it is not the idea of prediction that he has chiefly in mind. Prophecy implies insight into spiritual truth; it involves the understanding of divine mysteries, and also a genuine knowledge of the traditions and principles of the Christian faith. Paul adds to prophecy so conceived the faith that can remove mountains; yet he dismisses them as of little value if love is lacking in the prophet and man of faith.”

This is a non-Catholic source of Bible commentary. I think it is very succinct and to the point. But, I started this thread to try to get some Catholic perspectives on prophecy.

I think it’s typical of clericalism in the church that the most credence in the realm of prophecy is given to those in holy orders above everyone else, and then perhaps next in line are those with advanced degrees in something or other. Apostles, teachers, and leaders are people with different gifts than the gift of prophecy. Like Paul stated earlier in 1 Co, that we are all part of the body of Christ and we really do need each other and each other’s gifts.

 

[CB_Catholic]

This is the excerpt that I promised in a preceding post:

From The Interpreter’s Bible, G.A. Buttrick, et al., eds, Abingdon-Cokesbury Press, 1953. Vol. 10, page 169: *** (at my local public library)***

“The Corinthians coveted [the] gift of eloquence both because of its undoubted power and because of the opportunity for self-display. Paul thought such speech unworthy to deal with great matters pertaining to the Christian faith. It was a mark of a man in love with himself rather than his subject. It was of little value as the booming of a gong or the clanging of a cymbal.”
[then, a bit further …]
“Paul seemingly ranks the gift of prophecy very high (1 Co 14:3-5), and it is not the idea of prediction that he has chiefly in mind. Prophecy implies insight into spiritual truth; it involves the understanding of divine mysteries, and also a genuine knowledge of the traditions and principles of the Christian faith. Paul adds to prophecy so conceived the faith that can remove mountains; yet he dismisses them as of little value if love is lacking in the prophet and man of faith.”

This is a non-Catholic source of Bible commentary. I think it is very succinct and to the point. But, I started this thread to try to get some Catholic perspectives on prophecy.

I think it’s typical of clericalism in the church that the most credence in the realm of prophecy is given to those in holy orders above everyone else, and then perhaps next in line are those with advanced degrees in something or other. Apostles, teachers, and leaders are people with different gifts than the gift of prophecy. Like Paul stated earlier in 1 Co, that we are all part of the body of Christ and we really do need each other and each other’s gifts.

That has not been my experience at all. I find the prophetic gifts demonstrated mostly by faithful and devout laypeople, whether they are in the Charismatic Renewal or not. They are the ones most of us interact with daily. If we are discerning, we can hear God speaking to us through each other in many ways.

 

[ynotzap]

I believe that Scripture says that which the Prophet prophesied comes to be is the test of the Prophet Also when a person preaches Christ his is a prophet. Also a prophet is the mouthpiece of God. And prophesy can read the soul, even unknown to the prophet. Also prophesy is one of the Charismatic gifts to build the Church.

 

[grannymh]

This is the excerpt that I promised in a preceding post:

From The Interpreter’s Bible, G.A. Buttrick, et al., eds, Abingdon-Cokesbury Press, 1953. Vol. 10, page 169: (at my local public library)

“The Corinthians coveted [the] gift of eloquence both because of its undoubted power and because of the opportunity for self-display. Paul thought such speech unworthy to deal with great matters pertaining to the Christian faith. It was a mark of a man in love with himself rather than his subject. It was of little value as the booming of a gong or the clanging of a cymbal.”
[then, a bit further …]
“Paul seemingly ranks the gift of prophecy very high (1 Co 14:3-5), and it is not the idea of prediction that he has chiefly in mind. Prophecy implies insight into spiritual truth; it involves the understanding of divine mysteries, and also a genuine knowledge of the traditions and principles of the Christian faith. Paul adds to prophecy so conceived the faith that can remove mountains; yet he dismisses them as of little value if love is lacking in the prophet and man of faith.”

This is a non-Catholic source of Bible commentary. I think it is very succinct and to the point. But, I started this thread to try to get some Catholic perspectives on prophecy.

According to the quote from The Interpreter’s Bible presented in post 7,
“Prophecy implies insight into spiritual truth; it involves the understanding of divine mysteries, and also a genuine knowledge of the traditions and principles of the Christian faith.”
The Catholic perspective on this explanation of prophecy is that the greatest spiritual truth is the truth of Jesus Christ, truly present in the Catholic Sacrament of the Holy Eucharist.