What is Purgatory Like?

[distracted]

First, don’t believe everything you read.

i believe books given an imprimatur/nihil obstat… and besides, Who says i do believe everything i read? I had doubts reading some things in the book but when i thought about it, the things i doubted made perfect sense. It ony makes sense that we have to go through “things” to become something we are not - namely SINLESS… and pure. the world, the flesh & the devil pollute us… It just stands to reason we would need a good cleansing before we go to heaven. If we entered heaven impure, Heaven would no longer be Heaven… and God isn’t going to let us ruin Heavne for others just because we don’t want to be pure… or whatever…

The Church strongly recommends you to learn the Catholic Faith so that you don’t fall into error.

i may know the Catholic faith better than you do… Why do people on these forums always presume ignornace on the part of OP???

I recommend the Catechism of the Catholic Church -

i rest my case. I have read the entire thing.

Now, it is left up to theologians about how Purgatory “works”, whether it has lesser fire in one stage and greater fire in another, or whether it has stages at all, and so forth. It’s all theological speculation and personal meditation, not Church teaching.

what about people who are there? In the book, souls in Purgatory appeared to nuns while they were in deep prayer… asked them to offer up Masses for them so they could get through their sufferings faster…

I don’t know if Padre Pio was actually in Purgatory, but I do know that Canonization means the saint is in heaven and, unless I’m mistaken, it means the saint went immediately into heaven, i.e., not through purgatory to heaven but went directly to heaven after death.

you are mistaken… anyone in Heaven is a saint… doesn’t matter whether they wnet to Purg or not…

Those methods of indulgences are no longer practiced in the Church because

NOT true… Indulgences were never a wrong practice that needed to be done away with… I have received a plenary indulgence… & it was wonderful!! powerful!!!

) they were confusing

they are not confusing to me…

 

[Sir_Knight]

I don’t know if Padre Pio was actually in Purgatory, but I do know that Canonization means the saint is in heaven and, unless I’m mistaken, it means the saint went immediately into heaven, i.e., not through purgatory to heaven but went directly to heaven after death.

That is incorrect. Canonization is the recognization that a person is a saint with complete certainity not whether or not a person became a saint instantly upon dying.

There is no time in Purgatory. Purgatory, like Heaven and Hell, is timeless. The Church has never taught there is no time in the world to come, because there actually isn’t any time. Being spiritual words, they are eternal, without time, so placing times on them would be ridiculous and contrary to the truth. You must be referring to the old, old method of indulgences, such as “If you say this prayer, you will be lessened in Purgatory by this many years”. Those methods of indulgences are no longer practiced in the Church because (a) they were confusing and (b) they did not, as some confused them to be, refer to the length of stay in Purgatory but rather to the length it was necessary to do the prayer or penance. Now, imagine a prayer requiring you to say it for a thousand years. Can you imagine how impossible that would be? Yet indulgences like that existed, and so, the Church had to stop it.

This is also not accurate. While there is no time in Heaven or Hell, there IS time is purgatory because at the end of time, purgatory will cease to exist. If it existed outside of time, it would not end when time ends – thus making it a part of time and NOT outside of time. The confusion comes in that time is a measure of motion – a day is how long it takes the earth to rotate on it’s axis. A year is how long it takes the earth to go around the sun. A second is the duration of 9,192,631,770 periods of the radiation corresponding to the transition between the two hyperfine levels of the ground state of the cesium 133 atom. In purgatory, however, none of these points of references exist. Without a point of reference, it is impossible to know how long something is.

There is a story of a monk who was promised that he would only have to spend three days in purgatory. When visited by his guardian angel, he betterly complained about why he was forgotten and was stuck there for several years and not released in three days as promised. His guardian angel informed him that he had been in purgatory for only one hour. Without a point of reference, one hour felt like several years.

Finally, I encourage you to be cautious about what you read, whether its from Priests or theologians or whoever. Just because someone has a certain office in the Church - even the Pope - dose not mean they are free from error. (The Pope only exercises his infallibility in the given circumstances, not every time he speaks or writes as some Catholics think) So learn the Catholic Faith and be careful what you read. You don’t want to read stuff like Father Gobbi’s book, which is full of heresies and departures from the Catholic Faith (“Jesus will come again in glory in the year 2000,” as one verse in his book states!).

However, if the writing is approved by the church, then it means that it contains nothing which conflicts with official church teaching.

 

[ralphinal]

What is “Ralphism”??

It is something that I say that may or may not reflect common thought. It may be acceptable doctrinally, but it is how I think

i think the fire is more than our desire to be with God… though i know it is that also…

That is fine

it is our soul changing from sinful to pure… and we never know how sinful we are until we are with Christ - for a good long time…

Ok

that reminds me: Do you know the answer to this question?

Why do so few Catholics (that i know) spend time with Jesus at the Blessed Sacrament?

Everyone has their own reasons. Time, lack of a place to do it. Not all parishes have exposition. Some do not know the reasons or need to do it. I spend at least an hour of week in front of the exposed Sacrament. It is wonderful

i think this is negligence… & makes a person’s time in Purgatory longer & more painful… Jesus wants us to be purified Here! where it can do good for ourselves & others - those who have to live with us…

Ok. BUt what if you live in a place where no local churches have times to go? Or if the times conflct with work?

 

[distracted]

Ok. BUt what if you live in a place where no local churches have times to go? Or if the times conflct with work?

a person can spend time with Jesus after Mass… most times the priest will leave the Church open if people want to do tht…

i used to live in a parish that had 24/7 adoration… but in a populated area… well, not may people showed up…

i don’t get it… it is the most wonderful thing God ever “invented”…

Maybe i am more forutnate than i realize… If a priest hadn’t told me about it in confession yrs ago… i myself would not know… (sigh) It just goes back to that problem the Church has… of not informing its members very well…

 

[ralphinal]

a person can spend time with Jesus after Mass… most times the priest will leave the Church open if people want to do tht…

i used to live in a parish that had 24/7 adoration… but in a populated area… well, not may people showed up…

i don’t get it… it is the most wonderful thing God ever “invented”…

Maybe i am more forutnate than i realize… If a priest hadn’t told me about it in confession yrs ago… i myself would not know… (sigh) It just goes back to that problem the Church has… of not informing its members very well…

There are 24 hour adoration in several places near me. Yes, you have it lucky.

 

[peregrinus_WA]

I read this book several yrs ago that was written by a priest… and he (and those cited in the book) said that Purgatory is excrutiatingly painful, especially in the lower levels… Even Padre Pio spent an hour or so in Purgatory, as holy as he was (seemed to be). The usual length of time there is 40 yrs… :hypno:

i am wondering if you know anything further about Purgatory… preferably written by a saint?

Purgatory Explained by Fr. F.X. Schouppe, SJ

Lots of excerpts from the Saints on visions of Purgatory and the people in there.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

This is a Ralphism, but there is a logic to it that I think the Church would accept. Purgatory’s fire, pain and suffering are different than Hell’s. I hold that the pain and fire we feel is our own burning desire to finally be with God. Once we are dead, our will becomes fixed, and we can begin purgation, if we are lucky. Once our will is fixed on God, our desire is to be with him. Having to wait intesifies our focus and our suffering.

In hell, it is our hatred for God that increases the external flames placed there for punishment.

With the caveat that this is merely a speculative question and there is no such thing as a bad question, just bad conclusions:

I’ve often wondered if the fire of love in Heaven, the fire of purgation in Purgatory, and the fire of Justice in hell are not all the same Fire, all of it the Fire of the Holy One Himself. In Heaven, the saints have been made fit for the Fire of His Love. In Purgatory, they are BEING made fit. And in hell, It burns those who have refused It.

Thoughts?

 

[RNRobert]

SIA said: ""The fact that purgatory is a fable cooked up by the church to make lots of $$$ and quickly is one thing, “”

**A pretty theory that has no basis in reality.

The average stipend for a mass is $5-10.

There are only some 200 days that the average parish priest can accept a stipend for celebrating a mass for a particular intention.

Do the math.

(Just another example of the myth of the rich church.)**

If the Catholic Church was REALLY in it for the money, then we’d have priests on TV with their own programs, wearing tacky suits…

 

[Sabbath_Keeper]

This is also not accurate. While there is no time in Heaven or Hell, there IS time is purgatory because at the end of time, purgatory will cease to exist.

I posed these question once before, but I’m not sure it was here as I cannot find it so I will as ask them again:

1. If purgatory exists and if it is destroyed when Christ creates all things anew, what happens to those souls who have not yet completed their time in purgatory and are not yet completely cleansed, are they burned up with the rest of the sinners? If they are that would not seem quite righteous on the part of God just because they where not able to complete their purification due to time running out.
2. What of those who have not died and need to be purged? If purgatory is destroyed before they die and are unable to be purged and they still have the stain of sin they would not be able to enter into heaven and there would be no place to be purged. Again, time runs out.
3. Refering to the first two questions. If these aforementioned souls we given instantaneous cleansings in able to enter into heaven would that be quite fair to those who had to go through complete cleansings? God is a just God. Christ said that his rewards are with him when he returns, for the righteous and the unrighteous. Purgatory seems to be a form of doling out the rewards of semiunrighteous, if there ever could be such a thing, christians.

This does not make any sense at all. Christ paid all for all in one moment of time for ever. He is our sole (soul) mediator, there is no other, our advocate before the father. His blood either covers us completely or it doesn’t, and if it doesn’t what sense did it make for him to die. He was supposed to do our suffering for us, he isn’t suffering anymore and it wasn’t an eternal suffering either. If we have to continue to suffer than this is a lie. I do not believe God lies. Do you?

 

[Sabbath_Keeper]

Purgatory Explained by Fr. F.X. Schouppe, SJ

Lots of excerpts from the Saints on visions of Purgatory and the people in there.

Great, send me to a place to buy a book when I can barely make enough to buy food for myself and my wife. Thanks.

 

[Sabbath_Keeper]

With the caveat that this is merely a speculative question and there is no such thing as a bad question, just bad conclusions:

I’ve often wondered if the fire of love in Heaven, the fire of purgation in Purgatory, and the fire of Justice in hell are not all the same Fire, all of it the Fire of the Holy One Himself. In Heaven, the saints have been made fit for the Fire of His Love. In Purgatory, they are BEING made fit. And in hell, It burns those who have refused It.

Thoughts?

This has got to be one of the cruelest concepts I have ever seen.

Think about this.

If Lazuras, the one in the Parable, was seen by the rich man, then Lazuras could see the rich man. That mean that everybody in Purgatory could see each other whether on the good side or the bad side. What a horror for those on the good side to look over and see their loved ones who are lost burning and burning and burning. Wouldn’t this in itself be a torment? I believe God is more merciful than that.

 

[ralphinal]

I posed these question once before, but I’m not sure it was here as I cannot find it so I will as ask them again:

1. If purgatory exists and if it is destroyed when Christ creates all things anew, what happens to those souls who have not yet completed their time in purgatory and are not yet completely cleansed, are they burned up with the rest of the sinners? If they are that would not seem quite righteous on the part of God just because they where not able to complete their purification due to time running out

This is a common question that comes from a common misunderstanding. Purgatory, like heaven and hell, is not held bound by time like earth. It is not about “baking a soul on 350 for 45 minutes.” Everyone in Purgatory will be done when the end comes.

1. What of those who have not died and need to be purged? If purgatory is destroyed before they die and are unable to be purged and they still have the stain of sin they would not be able to enter into heaven and there would be no place to be purged. Again, time runs out.

They will undergo an instantanious purgation. Do not forget that we can be made ready on earth. Those who live through the end times may, in fact, have been made pure by their sufferings on earth.

1. Refering to the first two questions. If these aforementioned souls we given instantaneous cleansings in able to enter into heaven would that be quite fair to those who had to go through complete cleansings? God is a just God. Christ said that his rewards are with him when he returns, for the righteous and the unrighteous. Purgatory seems to be a form of doling out the rewards of semiunrighteous, if there ever could be such a thing, christians.

Read the passage about the landowner who hired workers in the early Morning, midmorning, noon, afternoon, and evening, and paid them all the same. Purgatory is not a last chance, and if you are in a state of separation from God, you will not be there. It is for those of us who struggle daily and more often than not, avoid sin but repent when we sin. Purgatory removes the natural drifting from God that we have as fallen humans, it does not remove mortal sin from our souls.

This does not make any sense at all. Christ paid all for all in one moment of time for ever. He is our sole (soul) mediator, there is no other, our advocate before the father. His blood either covers us completely or it doesn’t, and if it doesn’t what sense did it make for him to die. He was supposed to do our suffering for us, he isn’t suffering anymore and it wasn’t an eternal suffering either. If we have to continue to suffer than this is a lie. I do not believe God lies. Do you?

Not at all. The mediator line has nothing to do with this, so I will not discuss it. OUr sins can be forgiven because Jesus died for us, but we must still repent. No one is forgive who does not ask for it. We will only continue to suffer if we are in hell. If Jesus’s death was that powerful, do you stop sinning when you accept him? Are you never tempted again?

 

[JKirkLVNV]

This has got to be one of the cruelest concepts I have ever seen.

Think about this.

If Lazuras, the one in the Parable, was seen by the rich man, then Lazuras could see the rich man. That mean that everybody in Purgatory could see each other whether on the good side or the bad side. What a horror for those on the good side to look over and see their loved ones who are lost burning and burning and burning. Wouldn’t this in itself be a torment? I believe God is more merciful than that.

I’m not certain that the above necessarily follows. It might be the same fire, but in different “locations” (if eternity has to be understood differently than time, then perhaps the concept of “place” does as well). Besides, they could all be in the same “place” and have their awareness perceiving different things.

 

[Hislittlelady]

The term Purgatory does not appear in scripture, but was named by one of the early church fathers, not sure which one. However, it certainly does exist, and I know there are certain passages in scripture relating to it, but I think if I’m not mistaken it’s called ‘Sheol’ which is in the old testament. Purgatory is derived from purgation, which means to purify and cleanse.

I cannot imagine anyone walking straight through the gates of heaven in the state we are in. Yes, Jesus did save us by His blood. Absolutely true. We will be saved and go to heaven, but to make the bold statement that ‘I am saved’ and then go about doing what we want to do, is senseless.

We can certainly be sure of our salvation through the blood of the Lamb, but we must also do our best in working toward it all the days of our lives, through prayer, penance and good works done in love.

I pray that through the blood of Jesus I will make it to purgatory through His grace.

“What does the Lord require of you?” What are you supposed to do to live faithfully with your God? Do justice, love mercy, walk humbly with your God.

 

[Sabbath_Keeper]

The term Purgatory does not appear in scripture, but was named by one of the early church fathers, not sure which one. However, it certainly does exist, and I know there are certain passages in scripture relating to it, but I think if I’m not mistaken it’s called ‘Sheol’ which is in the old testament. Purgatory is derived from purgation, which means to purify and cleanse.

Purging is what happens when we accept Christ as our savior. His blood cleanses us from all sins through Baptism.

I cannot imagine anyone walking straight through the gates of heaven in the state we are in. Yes, Jesus did save us by His blood. Absolutely true. We will be saved and go to heaven, but to make the bold statement that ‘I am saved’ and then go about doing what we want to do, is senseless.

We can’t go through the gates in a sinful state, however, once we are washed in the cleansing flood of his blood we no longer have that sin.

A truly repentant Christian turns his/her life over to Christ and allows the Holy Spirit to direct them in all things. I.E. I used to smoke, curse, and drink, not to mention my sexual immorality. But, in ONE day, this all changed because I turned it over to God and let the Holy Spirit take it all. We can do nothing with out Christ.

We can certainly be sure of our salvation through the blood of the Lamb, but we must also do our best in working toward it all the days of our lives, through prayer, penance and good works done in love.

We can do nothing on our own, if we try we fail. It is only through the Holy Spirit that we gain the victory over sin.

May the Lord see you safely through each day till he come.

 

[cyberwolf001]

The average stipend for a mass is $5-10.

There are only some 200 days that the average parish priest can accept a stipend for celebrating a mass for a particular intention.

Do the math.

(Just another example of the myth of the rich church.)

In fairness this myth does have more logic to it than most.

Suppose we have a priest he shall call Father Paul.

Let us assume that each year Father Paul says on average Mass for 20 of the dearly departed each and every year and he gets $10 for each person.

So that is 20 people x 200 Masses = 4,000 Masses for the Dead that can be payed for.

Now that comes out to $10.00 x 4,000 Mass for the Dead = $40,000 a year on average.

Now let us assume Father Paul is an Active Priest for 60 years.

That comes to $40,000 x 60yrs = $24,000,000 yes MILLION over the course of Father Paul’s career.

A random google gives us a total of 400,000 Priests world wide (Dang that isn’t NEAR the amount I thought we had )

Let us say that they all bring in on average the same amount Father Paul does.

This gives us $96,000,000,000,000.00 or Ninty-Six Trillion Dollars American (Billion for other nations).

I DO NOT AGREE THIS IS THE CASE! BUT I can at least see the logic of this attack more so than the normal ones.

 

[Sir_Knight]

A truly repentant Christian turns his/her life over to Christ and allows the Holy Spirit to direct them in all things. I.E. I used to smoke, curse, and drink, not to mention my sexual immorality. But, in ONE day, this all changed because I turned it over to God and let the Holy Spirit take it all. We can do nothing with out Christ.

Recall that scripture tells us that even the most pious man sins seven times in one day.

This does not make any sense at all. Christ paid all for all in one moment of time for ever. He is our sole (soul) mediator, there is no other, our advocate before the father. His blood either covers us completely or it doesn’t, and if it doesn’t what sense did it make for him to die. He was supposed to do our suffering for us, he isn’t suffering anymore and it wasn’t an eternal suffering either. If we have to continue to suffer than this is a lie. I do not believe God lies. Do you?

Your comments are incorrect and unbiblical. I refer you to Hebrews 10:26-27 …

For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries.

 

[distracted]

Purgatory Explained by Fr. F.X. Schouppe, SJ

Lots of excerpts from the Saints on visions of Purgatory and the people in there.

did you have a problem understand or accepting anything said in that book? If so, waht??

Thanks…

 

[distracted]

This has got to be one of the cruelest concepts I have ever seen.

Think about this.

If Lazuras, the one in the Parable, was seen by the rich man, then Lazuras could see the rich man. That mean that everybody in Purgatory could see each other whether on the good side or the bad side. What a horror for those on the good side to look over and see their loved ones who are lost burning and burning and burning. Wouldn’t this in itself be a torment? I believe God is more merciful than that.

God is just as well as merciful. When in the Presence of God, we will not question his justice… His way of purifying someone of sin (disobedience)… We will not find anything wrong or bad about what our loved ones are going through because we will see things as He sees them… (which happens while deep in the rosary as well…and at Mass… and in His Real Presence)…

unlike when we are not in his presence…

 

[SIA]

If the Catholic Church was REALLY in it for the money, then we’d have priests on TV with their own programs, wearing tacky suits…

Rich church a fable?? You don’t know your own church! I suppose you are going to tell me that St. Peter’s Basillica is a mud hut too. Please spare us.