What is Purgatory Like?

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Rich church a fable?? You don’t know your own church! I suppose you are going to tell me that St. Peter’s Basillica is a mud hut too. Please spare us.
The Sistine Chapel was in need of majr restoration but the Vatican didn’t have enough money in the budget to restore the Sistine Chapel so a Japanese company did it in exchange for the copyright privileges. The Vatican itself has a yearly budget that is equivalent to the Archdiocese of Chicago, and frequently runs on a deficit. For instance, in 2001, revenues were $173.5 million US, expenditures were $176.6 million, including capital expenditures. (source infoplease.com/ipa/A0108136.html)

Sometimes Evangelicals look at beautiful Catholic Churches and ask “why can’t Catholics worship in a humble building.” Certainly Mass can be held almost anywhere. There were secret Masses held by priests in German concentration camps before Catholics were gassed to death for their beliefs.

Even though Mass can be held anywhere, Catholics believe Jesus has a passion for the Holy Temple. Catholics believe the only reason the early Church met in peoples homes and Catacombs was because they were under persecution.

When Jesus saw money changers in the Temple. He didn’t say “hey guys, its only a building, we can worship anywhere, lets go down the street to the community centre.” No, He chased them out. (Lk 19:45)

The big beautiful traditional Churches that receive the most complaints were not built with big bucks. They were built with the sweat of the brow of volunteers who worked 'till 11 PM every night after a full day of working their regular day jobs. They would do this for years until their community Parish was built. That is the real wealth of the Catholic Church - the people, and 2000 years of prayers of the faithful.

The majority of the Church’s “wealth” is tied up in real estate and in art work. These assets are “public wealth.” They are open for all to visit and see, much like a public museum.

Some people see the beautiful Catholic art and say “sell it and give the money to the poor!” (Jn 12:5)

Judas’ said “we could get 300 denari for that perfume and give it to the poor” (Jn 12:5) but Jesus corrected him “The poor we will always have with us.”(Jn 12:3-8) Jesus’ words sound cold and cruel toward the poor. But he saw that this valuable perfume (art for the nose) was being used to build up the kingdom of God. He could also see into Judas’ heart.

How do we reconcile Jesus’ words “the poor we will always have with us” with his words to the rich man “go and sell everything you own and give it to the poor.” (Lk 18:22) On the surface they appear in conflict . The difference is that the rich man’s valuables did not build up the kingdom of God while the perfume (art for the nose) did. It would be used at his burial.

The Church could sell off all its art. These beautiful contributions to our faith and culture could be put in the back rooms of private collectors’ studios. This would be comparable to Evangelicals closing down their recording studios, selling the recording equipment and stop making great Christian Music. We could redirect all this money to the poor. If the Church got fair market value for all its art and property there would be no more than a couple of dollars for each poor person in the world. Then it would be spent and we would have no art to enrich our faith and evangelize new Christians. Not only that but there would be no Church property and no Churches. I don’t think this would be in service to God. Do you?

If we look back to Old Testament times, we see God ordered the use of precious metals and other costly materials in the construction of the ark of the covenant, the temple, and the furniture in the temple. These materials included gold, silver, bronze, fine linens, acacia wood, spices for oils and incense, and onyx stones (see e.g., Ex. 25-31). By giving our best to God, we are reminded that everything we have is a blessing from Him and that we need to seek Him first and trust in Him (cf. Mt. 6:33), instead of relying on ourselves and our own plans.

The Church’s preferential option for the poor is also expressed through her many charitable works at the parochial, diocesan, national and international levels. In times of moral crisis, the Vatican has used her wealth to aid people, such as selling gold to stave off the extermination of many Jews during World War II.

If the Church sold all of her various holdings, poverty would continue to be a lasting concern (cf. Mk. 14:7) and the Church, the greatest champion of poor and oppressed people throughout the world, would not have the resources to provide assistance. The Church will always be a world leader in addressing poverty, but just as she is called to be the good steward of the spiritual riches of Christ’s Mystical Body, she also exercises a certain stewardship of her material resources for the temporal and eternal well being of all humanity.
 
The Sistine Chapel was in need of majr restoration but the Vatican didn’t have enough money in the budget to restore the Sistine Chapel so a Japanese company did it in exchange for the copyright privileges. The Vatican itself has a yearly budget that is equivalent to the Archdiocese of Chicago, and frequently runs on a deficit. For instance, in 2001, revenues were $173.5 million US, expenditures were $176.6 million, including capital expenditures. (source infoplease.com/ipa/A0108136.html)

Sometimes Evangelicals look at beautiful Catholic Churches and ask “why can’t Catholics worship in a humble building.” Certainly Mass can be held almost anywhere. There were secret Masses held by priests in German concentration camps before Catholics were gassed to death for their beliefs.

Even though Mass can be held anywhere, Catholics believe Jesus has a passion for the Holy Temple. Catholics believe the only reason the early Church met in peoples homes and Catacombs was because they were under persecution.

When Jesus saw money changers in the Temple. He didn’t say “hey guys, its only a building, we can worship anywhere, lets go down the street to the community centre.” No, He chased them out. (Lk 19:45)

The big beautiful traditional Churches that receive the most complaints were not built with big bucks. They were built with the sweat of the brow of volunteers who worked 'till 11 PM every night after a full day of working their regular day jobs. They would do this for years until their community Parish was built. That is the real wealth of the Catholic Church - the people, and 2000 years of prayers of the faithful.

The majority of the Church’s “wealth” is tied up in real estate and in art work. These assets are “public wealth.” They are open for all to visit and see, much like a public museum.

Some people see the beautiful Catholic art and say “sell it and give the money to the poor!” (Jn 12:5)

Judas’ said “we could get 300 denari for that perfume and give it to the poor” (Jn 12:5) but Jesus corrected him “The poor we will always have with us.”(Jn 12:3-8) Jesus’ words sound cold and cruel toward the poor. But he saw that this valuable perfume (art for the nose) was being used to build up the kingdom of God. He could also see into Judas’ heart.

How do we reconcile Jesus’ words “the poor we will always have with us” with his words to the rich man “go and sell everything you own and give it to the poor.” (Lk 18:22) On the surface they appear in conflict . The difference is that the rich man’s valuables did not build up the kingdom of God while the perfume (art for the nose) did. It would be used at his burial.

The Church could sell off all its art. These beautiful contributions to our faith and culture could be put in the back rooms of private collectors’ studios. This would be comparable to Evangelicals closing down their recording studios, selling the recording equipment and stop making great Christian Music. We could redirect all this money to the poor. If the Church got fair market value for all its art and property there would be no more than a couple of dollars for each poor person in the world. Then it would be spent and we would have no art to enrich our faith and evangelize new Christians. Not only that but there would be no Church property and no Churches. I don’t think this would be in service to God. Do you?

If we look back to Old Testament times, we see God ordered the use of precious metals and other costly materials in the construction of the ark of the covenant, the temple, and the furniture in the temple. These materials included gold, silver, bronze, fine linens, acacia wood, spices for oils and incense, and onyx stones (see e.g., Ex. 25-31). By giving our best to God, we are reminded that everything we have is a blessing from Him and that we need to seek Him first and trust in Him (cf. Mt. 6:33), instead of relying on ourselves and our own plans.

The Church’s preferential option for the poor is also expressed through her many charitable works at the parochial, diocesan, national and international levels. In times of moral crisis, the Vatican has used her wealth to aid people, such as selling gold to stave off the extermination of many Jews during World War II.

If the Church sold all of her various holdings, poverty would continue to be a lasting concern (cf. Mk. 14:7) and the Church, the greatest champion of poor and oppressed people throughout the world, would not have the resources to provide assistance. The Church will always be a world leader in addressing poverty, but just as she is called to be the good steward of the spiritual riches of Christ’s Mystical Body, she also exercises a certain stewardship of her material resources for the temporal and eternal well being of all humanity.
Why don’t they sell off maybe 10% of their precious metals and gems. That would net millions upon millions. Do you really think that anyone believes that the RCC is poor? Come on.
 
Selling off 10% you next mere pennies if divided among the world’s poor – accomplishing very little. And, as I said above, these “riches” were given to the Catholic church by the faithful for future generations. The Catholic Church is merely the steward of those treasures.
 
SIA, Sir Knight, Please, stay on topic, if you wish to discuss the richness or poorness of the RCC please move elsewhere. TY.😦
 
Was I, or was I not responding to the comments made by an earlier post? If anyone has drifted from the topic, it was THAT individual and to let those false comments stand unaddressed would give the impression that they were truthful.

Oh, and I did reply to your objections here. 😉
 
Speaking as a Lutheran, I think more statements like this would go a long way to bridging the gap between our respective beliefs on this issue:

ewtn.com/library/answers/how2purg.htm

“So the Church has never said that purgatory involves the same kind of time as we experience here on earth, or even time at all. Thus Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, no theological liberal, writes that purgatory may involve “existential” rather than “temporal” duration (cf. Ratzinger’s book <Eschatology).> It may be someone one , but experiences in a moment, rather than something one endures over time.”
 
Selling off 10% you next mere pennies if divided among the world’s poor – accomplishing very little. And, as I said above, these “riches” were given to the Catholic church by the faithful for future generations. The Catholic Church is merely the steward of those treasures.
Nice politically correct answer. Sorry, not buying it.
 
Nice politically correct answer. Sorry, not buying it.
I’m not selling it. Do the math yourself citing figured from official sources and see what numbers you come up with. Feel free to post your sources and final results here to see how they differ from my reply.

Also, these “treasures” that the church has was given to the church by the faithful – many of whom devoted their time and savings for the purpose of having a beautiful place for themselves and their children and their children’s children, etc. I explained all of this in detail above. Under those circumstances, the church has no right to use those treasures for other purposes.
 
Rich church a fable?? You don’t know your own church! I suppose you are going to tell me that St. Peter’s Basillica is a mud hut too. Please spare us.
oh give me a break…

The Catholic people paid for that renovation…

And a lot of Churches in the old days… were given to the Church… by Constantine and others…

In the OT, God tells the people to build him a temple with gold and all kidns of precious items… He said to make cherubim out of gold and set them around the ark…
 
Nice politically correct answer. Sorry, not buying it.
as someone else said somewhere on the forums when someone was bragging and going on and on about rejecting the Church:

Big deal. Who cares…

that’s your choice…
 
I’m not selling it. Do the math yourself citing figured from official sources and see what numbers you come up with. Feel free to post your sources and final results here to see how they differ from my reply.

Also, these “treasures” that the church has was given to the church by the faithful – many of whom devoted their time and savings for the purpose of having a beautiful place for themselves and their children and their children’s children, etc. I explained all of this in detail above. Under those circumstances, the church has no right to use those treasures for other purposes.
i frankly think its a waste of time to deal with this poster… just my opinion… but my instincts about such things seem to be right more often than wrong… I think he is never going to admit the Catholic Church is right about one single thing… If he even thinks that it is in his mind, he is going to keep that thought there…

So why waste your time???
 
So why waste your time???
Because if false statements about Catholicism are not challenged and allowed to stand unaddressed, then those who have no information about it one way or the other will walk away with that false impression because the correct view point was never presented and first impressions are lasting impressions.
 
Because if false statements about Catholicism are not challenged and allowed to stand unaddressed, then those who have no information about it one way or the other will walk away with that false impression because the correct view point was never presented and first impressions are lasting impressions.
hmm… I forgot about that…

I guess i really do need to ignore certain post-ers, at least for a time because they are starting to… as the Scriptures say, “vex me”… (2 St. Peter 2:8: "…who from day to day vexed the just soul with unjust works.)

(No, i am NOT saying i am perfectly just… but i am trying to be…)

Have you been to the Thread: Watch What You Say about the Church? I printed out almost the entire passage from 2 Peter 2… which speaks of how some people (i am paraphrasing)… just vex the righteous ones with their “unjust works” (useless arguments, etc…).

Reading that passage will help you to understand what i mean when i say i tend to think you may be wasting your time w/ certain antagonistic anti-Catholic post-ers (although i realize that i do not always know for sure when any given Catholic is wasting his time wtih any given Protestant… ).
 
If you want to know what *Hell *is like, St. Faustina has the best description… in her Diary #741… :eek:
 
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