What is Required for Belief?

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Hi,
I was born and raised in the Catholic Church but never confirmed. What beliefs (I am not talking about behavior but actual beliefs) are required to be confirmed and in good standing? Everything in the CCC? Only the Creeds? I honestly don’t know. I do know that a lot of proestants denominations, even conservative ones, require strict adherence for the ordained but not for laity. What is the Catholic position?
 
Catholics must “accept” (or “assent to”) all Catholic teaching (this includes the CCC and 2,000 years of teachings by Popes and Councils, as well as teachings issued under the authority of the Holy See). That’s a lot, and nobody is expected to actually know all of that, but you are expected to accept whatever fraction of it that you become aware of.

“Accept” means that you believe it to be true because of the authority of the Church, but not necessarily that you personally believe it. In other words, you realize that the Church must be correct because She has divine authority and knows better than you or I. You could privately doubt or disbelieve any matter of doctrine without incurring mortal sin, as long as you realize that your disbelief is a fault that you should (and do) try to correct.

This Forum is a good place for those types of things.

Some of the most fundamental and important teachings are contained within the Nicene Creed. That’s a good place to start.
 
Hi,
I was born and raised in the Catholic Church but never confirmed. What beliefs (I am not talking about behavior but actual beliefs) are required to be confirmed and in good standing? Everything in the CCC? Only the Creeds? I honestly don’t know. I do know that a lot of proestants denominations, even conservative ones, require strict adherence for the ordained but not for laity. What is the Catholic position?
I believe in one God, the Father almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all things visible and invisible.
I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only begotten son of God, born of the Father before all ages. God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, consubstatial with the Father; through Him all things were made.
For us men and our salvation he came down from heaven, and by the power of the Holy Spirit was incarnate of the Virgin Mary, and became man.
For our sake he was crucified undef Pontius Pilate, he suffered death and was buried, and rose again on the third day, according to the Scriptures. He ascended into heaven, and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead and his kingdom will have no end.
I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of Life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son, who with the Father and the Son is adored and glorified, who has spoken through the prophets.
I believe in one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church. I confess one baptism for the forgiveness of sins, and I look forward to the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come.
Amen.
 
Hi,
I was born and raised in the Catholic Church but never confirmed. What beliefs (I am not talking about behavior but actual beliefs) are required to be confirmed and in good standing? Everything in the CCC? Only the Creeds? I honestly don’t know. I do know that a lot of proestants denominations, even conservative ones, require strict adherence for the ordained but not for laity. What is the Catholic position?
Have a talk with the pastor at your local parish. Before Confirmation (usually done by the Bishop but can be relegated to any priest) there is usually some sort of catechesis involved (if you’ve never been properly instructed).

Clinton
 
Faith. That is all that God want, and if you have faith, you do Gods will.
 
That is a VERY GOOD reply. Much shorter and much better than my own.
I don’t agree David! I think your answer was better considering my question. “Faith” can mean a lot of things.

So basically, all Catholics must agree to all teachings that they know about…But, most of the Catholics I know don’t. How can that be?

Also, do you have a source which says all Catholics must submit to all teachings?

Thanks!
 
jacorley21… you actually posted 2 separate questions. The title question ‘What is Required for Belief’. DavidFilmer gave a great answer.

The second (implied) question ‘what do I have to do to be recognized as a Catholic?’ was beautifully answered by clintondyches
 
jacorley21… you actually posted 2 separate questions. The title question ‘What is Required for Belief’. DavidFilmer gave a great answer.

The second (implied) question ‘what do I have to do to be recognized as a Catholic?’ was beautifully answered by clintondyches
Thank you for adding your endorsement of David Filmer’s response. Do you have an opinion on the follow up questions?
 
So basically, all Catholics must agree to all teachings that they know about…But, most of the Catholics I know don’t. How can that be?

Also, do you have a source which says all Catholics must submit to all teachings?

Thanks!
It can be that they are covered with something called Invincible Ignorance. I think this was explained in this thread:

Post #:423, scroll to it and click “Invincible Ignorance”

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=10715247#post10715247

Source would be from this link, I don’t have time right now to research it but pull up the link and in the search engine type in “Magesterium” “Teaching Office of the Church”, “Submitting to the teachings”, “Dogma of Faith”, etc.,

usccb.org/beliefs-and-teachings/what-we-believe/catechism/catechism-of-the-catholic-church/epub/index.cfm#

I typed in “Dogma of Faith” and came up with this:

[The dogmas of the faith

88 The Church’s Magisterium exercises the authority it holds from Christ to the fullest extent when it defines dogmas, that is, when it proposes, in a form obliging the Christian people to an irrevocable adherence of faith, truths contained in divine Revelation or also when it proposes, in a definitive way, truths having a necessary connection with these. (888-892, 2032-2040)

89 There is an organic connection between our spiritual life and the dogmas. Dogmas are lights along the path of faith; they illuminate it and make it secure. Conversely, if our life is upright, our intellect and heart will be open to welcome the light shed by the dogmas of faith.50 (2625)

90 The mutual connections between dogmas, and their coherence, can be found in the whole of the Revelation of the mystery of Christ.51 “In Catholic doctrine there exists an order or ‘hierarchy’ of truths, since they vary in their relation to the foundation of the Christian faith.”52 (114, 158, 234)]

I will just touch on lightly that I suppose one submits to all of the teachings of the Church when God reveals these truths to a person. I believe that its a gift of faith and a gift of wisdom, understanding and knowledge that allows a person to understand and we need to genuinely ask God to reveal all truth to us so that we can.
 
I don’t agree David! I think your answer was better considering my question. “Faith” can mean a lot of things.

So basically, all Catholics must agree to all teachings that they know about…But, most of the Catholics I know don’t. How can that be?

Also, do you have a source which says all Catholics must submit to all teachings?

Thanks!
Can. 750 Those things are to be believed by divine and catholic faith which are contained in the word of God as it has been written or handed down by tradition, that is, in the single deposit of faith entrusted to the Church, and which are at the same time proposed as divinely revealed either by the solemn magisterium of the Church, or by its ordinary and universal magisterium, which is manifested by the common adherence of Christ’s faithful under the guidance of the sacred magisterium. All are therefore bound to shun any contrary doctrines.

Can. 752 While the assent of faith is not required, a religious submission of intellect and will is to be given to any doctrine which either the Supreme Pontiff or the College of Bishops, exercising their authentic magisterium, declare upon a matter of faith or morals, even though they do not intend to proclaim that doctrine by definitive act. Christ’s faithful are therefore to ensure that they avoid whatever does not accord with that doctrine.

Can. 753 Whether they teach individually, or in Episcopal Conferences, or gathered together in particular councils, Bishops in communion with the head and the members of the College, while not infallible in their teaching, are the authentic instructors and teachers of the faith for Christ’s faithful entrusted to their care. The faithful are bound to adhere, with a religious submission of mind, to this authentic magisterium of their Bishops.

Can. 754 All Christ’s faithful are obliged to observe the constitutions and decrees which lawful ecclesiastical authority issues for the purpose of proposing doctrine or of proscribing erroneous opinions; this is particularly the case of those published by the Roman Pontiff or by the College of Bishops.
 
jacorley21…yes I have many opinions:D
We need to learn to walk before we try to run.
Go to your nearest Church and register for RCIA
They will guide you through Confirmation. Read the Bible and learn what it means to truly “Love thy neighbor” Do it!
Welcome back to the Church.
Don
 
Can. 750 Those things are to be believed by divine and catholic faith which are contained in the word of God as it has been written or handed down by tradition, that is, in the single deposit of faith entrusted to the Church, and which are at the same time proposed as divinely revealed either by the solemn magisterium of the Church, or by its ordinary and universal magisterium, which is manifested by the common adherence of Christ’s faithful under the guidance of the sacred magisterium. All are therefore bound to shun any contrary doctrines.

Can. 752 While the assent of faith is not required, a religious submission of intellect and will is to be given to any doctrine which either the Supreme Pontiff or the College of Bishops, exercising their authentic magisterium, declare upon a matter of faith or morals, even though they do not intend to proclaim that doctrine by definitive act. Christ’s faithful are therefore to ensure that they avoid whatever does not accord with that doctrine.

Can. 753 Whether they teach individually, or in Episcopal Conferences, or gathered together in particular councils, Bishops in communion with the head and the members of the College, while not infallible in their teaching, are the authentic instructors and teachers of the faith for Christ’s faithful entrusted to their care. The faithful are bound to adhere, with a religious submission of mind, to this authentic magisterium of their Bishops.

Can. 754 All Christ’s faithful are obliged to observe the constitutions and decrees which lawful ecclesiastical authority issues for the purpose of proposing doctrine or of proscribing erroneous opinions; this is particularly the case of those published by the Roman Pontiff or by the College of Bishops.
Can. 752 is confusing. I don’t have to have faith in a particular doctrine but I have to submit with my intellect and will? What is the difference? Can someone explain what Can. 752 is referring to here?

Also, thanks to everyone for all of the help!
 
“Accept” means that you believe it to be true because of the authority of the Church, but not necessarily that you personally believe it. In other words, you realize that the Church must be correct because She has divine authority and knows better than you or I. You could privately doubt or disbelieve any matter of doctrine without incurring mortal sin, as long as you realize that your disbelief is a fault that you should (and do) try to correct.
Some of what I’m going to say has been stated in my other posts, but I think they would be appropriate here as well. As far as “accepting,” if Jesus, Himself, told me that the moon was made out of cheese, then I would have to accept that statement. Although I would be uneasy with that statement, I know that Jesus is the creator of the universe and therefore, what He says must be true. As far as accepting the Roman Catholic Church’s teachings, Jesus NEVER promised that they would be error free or that they would be expressed in a way, which would allow for their correct understanding by the people.

A recent example is Pope Francis’s statement about atheists and the counter-response given by Vatican representatives: washingtontimes.com/news/2013/may/24/pope-francis-suggests-atheists-good-deeds-gets-the/. Whether or not Pope Francis had the idea correct in his head, he clearly expressed it incorrectly and his statements were QUESTIONED. If Pope Francis’s statements were questioned by true believers (assuming the Vatican representatives weren’t heretics), I don’t see why true believers couldn’t also question anything else presented by the Roman Catholic Church (ie the Catechism, Lumen Gentium, etc.) since the Pope Francis example shows that things that come from humans may not be error free or may present the truth inaccurately.

I admit that Jesus promised to preserve His Church in the Bible. Many Roman Catholics will use that verse to say that the Roman Catholic Church must be infallible or error free due to the preservation. However, I’d like to argue that this interpretation, itself, may actually be wrong or definitely, needing clarification.

I’m open to the possibility that the Church being referred to is the invisible Church. I think we can all agree that the invisible Church is distinct from the Roman Catholic Church. This means that the invisible Church will include all true believers in Jesus Christ, whether they identify themselves as Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Protestant, etc. The Roman Catholic Church as well as other churches (churches with a lower case “c”) will have members who aren’t true believers and these aren’t members of the invisible Church.

Preserving the invisible Church may actually mean that Jesus will use the Eastern Orthodox and Protestants to bring up ideas that the RC Church should consider, so that steel can sharpen steel. Of course, the Eastern Orthodox and Protestants aren’t perfect themselves and they probably shouldn’t have let their egos cause them to cut off communication completely with the Roman Catholics or one another. At the same time, Jesus uses imperfect people all the time, like Paul, to bring up important matters, so the ideas of the Eastern Orthodox and Protestants should at least be considered.

Looking back at Church history, it seems like this might be the case anyway. The Roman Church may have had prominence, but there were also other Christian centers in Antioch, Alexandria, etc. It seemed like these churches were in different degrees of communion with one another depending on the political situation at the time, but they didn’t necessarily submit to the Roman Church. Even the specifics of the Trinity weren’t identical amongst these churches and that’s why there were so many councils, like the Council of Nicea, to iron out the differences. To me, this shows that Christendom is bigger than the Roman Church. Instead you had people UNITED IN THEIR ACCEPTANCE OF CHRIST who were loosely joint together and sharpening one another.

Going back to “accepting” the RC Church, how do you honestly and practically do that? With your definition of acceptance, I can see how it would be easy for someone to deceive himself and not truly accept. Just from personal experience, when I used to identify as Roman Catholic, I thought I accepted the Church’s teachings, but I didn’t even put effort into exploring any teachings other than those taught at Catechism classes. In fact, I’ve learned MORE about RC teachings, as well as Church history, as a non Roman Catholic in an effort to defend my ideas. How do you assure yourself that you did truly accept the RC Church? Is this assurance even possible?
 
Jesus NEVER promised that they would be error free or that they would be expressed in a way, which would allow for their correct understanding by the people.
It is true that people can misunderstand what the Church teaches, but Jesus did assure that what the Church teaches is the same as his own teaching:
He that hears you hears me; and he that despises you despises me; and he that despises me despises him that sent me. [Luke 10:16]
A recent example is Pope Francis’s statement about atheists and the counter-response given by Vatican representatives: washingtontimes.com/news/2013/may/24/pope-francis-suggests-atheists-good-deeds-gets-the/. Whether or not Pope Francis had the idea correct in his head, he clearly expressed it incorrectly and his statements were QUESTIONED. If Pope Francis’s statements were questioned by true believers (assuming the Vatican representatives weren’t heretics), I don’t see why true believers couldn’t also question anything else presented by the Roman Catholic Church
His statement was questioned by “humanists” (that usually means atheists), and clarified by Vatican representatives. The Holy Father said that everyone is redeemed. This is Church doctrine, but a lot of “humanists” don’t realize that redemption and salvation are completely different things, and they understood the Pope to be somehow implying that all are saved. All are redeemed (even atheists), but not all are saved. The Pope got it right (in thought and word), but ignorant “humanists” misconstrued what he said because they don’t understand the meaning of the words that he used.
I admit that Jesus promised to preserve His Church in the Bible. Many Roman Catholics will use that verse to say that the Roman Catholic Church must be infallible or error free due to the preservation. However, I’d like to argue that this interpretation, itself, may actually be wrong or definitely, needing clarification.
Feel free to open a thread to present your interpretation or clarification.
I’m open to the possibility that the Church being referred to is the invisible Church.
Ewww, we’re getting really off topic for this thread. I would review the passage that I’m sure you refer to
You are Rock, and upon this Rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell will not prevail against it. And I will give to you (addressing Peter, using the singular Greek pronoun) the keys to the Kingdom of Heaven, and whatever you (singular) bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven. [Matt 16:18-20]
“Binding” and “loosing” were rabbinical terms meaning to impose or remove an obligation. In what way does an “invisible” Church bind or loose? We see exactly how a “visible” Church exercises this authority in the Council at Jerusalem described in Acts 15, in which early Christians were loosed from the precepts of the Mosaic Law, such as circumcision (but still bound to some precepts of the covenant with Noah). This was an exercise of a visible Church, who proclaimed Her teaching to all early Christian communities with the opening line, “It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us…” This early visible Church invoked the name and authority of the Holy Spirit in proclaiming Her doctrine. The modern visible Church does exactly the same thing.

I won’t comment further on the other points you raised, in order not to draw this thread even further off-topic. I think they are interesting, and worthy of their own thread.
 
His statement was questioned by “humanists” (that usually means atheists), and clarified by Vatican representatives. The Holy Father said that everyone is redeemed. This is Church doctrine, but a lot of “humanists” don’t realize that redemption and salvation are completely different things, and they understood the Pope to be somehow implying that all are saved. All are redeemed (even atheists), but not all are saved. The Pope got it right (in thought and word), but ignorant “humanists” misconstrued what he said because they don’t understand the meaning of the words that he used.
Regardless of whether it was the humanist fault for misconstruing what Pope Francis said, I would think that Pope Francis should have seen where the conversation was going and clarified what he said. Granted I wasn’t there and perhaps Pope Francis wasn’t given enough time to make the clarification, this situation still shows that there is imperfection in transmitting information. There will always be time constraints, language barriers, intellectual barriers, personal agendas, etc. and this is why I would feel that it’s necessary to question things that are being said by anyone other than Jesus.

Regardless of how correct the Pope was in his statement, as a Christian, I was uncomfortable with how the conversation ended and it seems like the Vatican representatives were also left with an uneasy feeling. Otherwise, they wouldn’t have made a clarification statement! My point is if clarifications were needed for THIS situation, I can see that clarifications may ALSO BE NEEDED for the Catechism and ANY other statements made by Roman Catholic representatives throughout the centuries.

If we’re honest with ourselves, time constraints, personal agendas, language barriers, and any other thing that would prevent perfect transmission of information are not new and existed throughout Church history, so it’s hard for me to see why ANYTHING presented by the Roman Catholic Church shouldn’t be under scrutiny. IN MY OPINION, if Jesus was using the Vatican representatives to preserve the Church in this current situation, Jesus may have also wanted to use the ideas of the would be Assyrian Church of the East, Oriental Orthodox, Eastern Orthodox, Protestants, etc. prior to their separation from the rest of Christendom to preserve the Church.

Should the Vatican representatives have let the conversation end as it did and not question the situation? How do you draw the line between “accepting” all that the RC teaches and proper/responsible scrutiny? How do you assure yourself that you truly accept the RC Church’s teachings?
 
Actually, I just realized that I transmitted information incorrectly in my previous. What I meant to ask was, how do you draw the line between “accepting” all that the RC teaches and improper/irresponsible scrutiny?
 
Hi,
I was born and raised in the Catholic Church but never confirmed. What beliefs (I am not talking about behavior but actual beliefs) are required to be confirmed and in good standing? Everything in the CCC? Only the Creeds? I honestly don’t know. I do know that a lot of proestants denominations, even conservative ones, require strict adherence for the ordained but not for laity. What is the Catholic position?
St. Ambrose (the Bishop who gave the Sacraments of Initiation, including Confirmation, to St. Augustine of Hippo) said something to the effect that “I would not understand, if I did not believe.” Our motto as Catholics is “Faith Seeking Understanding.”

We are not expected to know or understand the entire teaching of the Catholic faith, but we are expected to have a humble attitude of belief, so that when we find out that the Church teaches thus-and-so, which we had no idea before that it taught that, then our first instinct should be to say, “Oh, thank you for letting me know; this adds to my understanding. I still have questions about that subject, but if the Church teaches it, then it must be true, and therefore I believe it, and my belief in it will lead to my greater understanding of this issue.”

Believing it doesn’t mean that we don’t seek to understand it - we should always be thinking about these things and asking questions to make sure we have a full understanding of the teaching - but obstinate doubt should not be part of the equation at all, and certainly it should never be our starting place. Rather, we should take the same attitude as an IT expert takes to learning about computers - he seeks more and more knowledge, and to know his computer very, very well, and he never, ever asks himself, “What is the least I can know about computers, and still be considered an IT expert?”

A minimalist attitude of “what is the least I can get away with” is not likely to lead to salvation, any more than a minimal understanding of computers could lead to success in the IT business.

It takes time to cultivate this instinct, but it is well worth the effort, in terms of the salvation of your soul.

This is the work of a lifetime, though, and your Confirmation is your initiation into this lifestyle.

In preparation for your Confirmation, you should have a basic understanding of the tenets of the Apostles’ Creed (the first section of the Universal Catechism covers the Creed); you should know how to say your prayers, and you should know the Gifts and Fruits of the Holy Spirit, be able to list the names of the seven Sacraments, and understand what their effects are in your life.

If you are receiving your First Holy Communion at the same time, then you should focus on the meaning of the Mass, as well.
 
… and this is why I would feel that it’s necessary to question things that are being said by anyone other than Jesus.
And, yet, here you come, questioning what Jesus meant about Church authority, despite the plain words that he used.
I can see that clarifications may ALSO BE NEEDED for the Catechism and ANY other statements made by Roman Catholic representatives throughout the centuries.
True. Isn’t it nice that we have a visible Church who can provide these clarifications? It’s a whole lot better than a bunch of people reading and interpreting the Scriptures for themselves. How can they understand the Scriptures without a Spirit-led authority to explain it to them? (Acts 8:29-31).
Should the Vatican representatives have let the conversation end as it did and not question the situation?
The Vatican rep didn’t question anything. He merely explained what the word “redeemed” means.
How do you draw the line between “accepting” all that the RC teaches and proper/responsible scrutiny? How do you assure yourself that you truly accept the RC Church’s teachings?
I accept the Church. The teachings are just along for the ride. There have been many instances where I was mistaken about what the Church teaches. I believed what I thought the Church teaches. I remain in good standing (and free from sin) even though I am mistaken. When the truth of the matter becomes apparent to me, I reform my thoughts - I don’t stubbornly cling to my old opinion.

I’m unclear on what you mean by ‘question.’ It seems you mean “to ask for clarification” instead of “expressing doubt.” We can always ask for clarification - that’s the main purpose of this Forum.
 
St. Ambrose (the Bishop who gave the Sacraments of Initiation, including Confirmation, to St. Augustine of Hippo) said something to the effect that “I would not understand, if I did not believe.” Our motto as Catholics is “Faith Seeking Understanding.”

We are not expected to know or understand the entire teaching of the Catholic faith, but we are expected to have a humble attitude of belief, so that when we find out that the Church teaches thus-and-so, which we had no idea before that it taught that, then our first instinct should be to say, “Oh, thank you for letting me know; this adds to my understanding. I still have questions about that subject, but if the Church teaches it, then it must be true, and therefore I believe it, and my belief in it will lead to my greater understanding of this issue.”

Believing it doesn’t mean that we don’t seek to understand it - we should always be thinking about these things and asking questions to make sure we have a full understanding of the teaching - but obstinate doubt should not be part of the equation at all, and certainly it should never be our starting place. Rather, we should take the same attitude as an IT expert takes to learning about computers - he seeks more and more knowledge, and to know his computer very, very well, and he never, ever asks himself, “What is the least I can know about computers, and still be considered an IT expert?”

A minimalist attitude of “what is the least I can get away with” is not likely to lead to salvation, any more than a minimal understanding of computers could lead to success in the IT business.

It takes time to cultivate this instinct, but it is well worth the effort, in terms of the salvation of your soul.

This is the work of a lifetime, though, and your Confirmation is your initiation into this lifestyle.

In preparation for your Confirmation, you should have a basic understanding of the tenets of the Apostles’ Creed (the first section of the Universal Catechism covers the Creed); you should know how to say your prayers, and you should know the Gifts and Fruits of the Holy Spirit, be able to list the names of the seven Sacraments, and understand what their effects are in your life.

If you are receiving your First Holy Communion at the same time, then you should focus on the meaning of the Mass, as well.
Ok so, and correct me if I am wrong…There is always only possible answer: The church is right on faith and morals. If I disagree, I must be wrong…I can disagree and simply submit to the church so long as I admit that I must be wrong. I can’t ever take the position: I am right, the church is wrong. That is what I am gathering from this. But what exactly is a required belief vs. just something the church admits could be wrong. For instance, if the church openly supports immigration policies I don’t agree with…Do Catholics have to accept that the same way they do when the church says Jesus is God? I am sure they don’t, but then I don’t understand where they draw the line between required teachings and not required teachings.
 
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