What is Sin?/WWJD

[ValiantDomain]

Was Jesus a Puritan?

This is the question I often find myself asking anymore. It’s a question which ultimately finds its basis in the whole WWJD concept. Would Jesus jaywalk? Would Jesus speed in traffic? Would Jesus break wind in public? Would Jesus laugh?!

Would Jesus laugh?!?! Oh, dear Lord, I hope so!

But can you see what I’m trying to convey here? The concept of sin seems to be lost in translation, and is easily confused with other acts which we find objectionable or just rude. But sinful? Breaking wind in public is rude, but by no means is it morally repugnant! Would Jesus do it, though? Speeding and traffic and jaywalking appear to be what might be called “conditional sins” because while speeding is against the law, does it actually break the link of sanctifying grace? I don’t see how…unless, of course, your act of speeding ultimately kills somebody in a car crash.

The list goes on and on with Puritanical “sins” which honestly make Jesus seem less than human. Prohibitions on drinking moderately, smoking, and a numerous other things really makes a person sit down and ask…“Am I going to hell if I laugh?”

 

[Della]

G. K. Chesterton, the great 20th century apologist, wrote: “Break the conventions, keep the commandments.” IOW, don’t worry about mere conventions/fashions/manners/societal mores but do be concerned not to break the laws God commands us not to break. Does that help?

 

[FCEGM]

“Wherever the Catholic sun doth shine
There’s always laughter and good red wine.
At least I’ve always found it so.
Benedicamus Domino!”

More wisdom from G. K. Chesterton.

 

[Magicsilence]

Was Jesus a Puritan?

This is the question I often find myself asking anymore. It’s a question which ultimately finds its basis in the whole WWJD concept. Would Jesus jaywalk? Would Jesus speed in traffic? Would Jesus break wind in public? Would Jesus laugh?!

Would Jesus laugh?!?! Oh, dear Lord, I hope so!

But can you see what I’m trying to convey here? The concept of sin seems to be lost in translation, and is easily confused with other acts which we find objectionable or just rude. But sinful? Breaking wind in public is rude, but by no means is it morally repugnant! Would Jesus do it, though? Speeding and traffic and jaywalking appear to be what might be called “conditional sins” because while speeding is against the law, does it actually break the link of sanctifying grace? I don’t see how…unless, of course, your act of speeding ultimately kills somebody in a car crash.

The list goes on and on with Puritanical “sins” which honestly make Jesus seem less than human. Prohibitions on drinking moderately, smoking, and a numerous other things really makes a person sit down and ask…“Am I going to hell if I laugh?”

It is not sinful to miss mass on a weekday.

But it is better if you go.

It is not sinful to eat chocolate cake.

But it is better if you fast from it.

It is not sinful to have a lie-in on Saturday.

But it is better to discipline yourself and get up a bit earlier.

It is not sinful to read science fiction books.

But it is better if you read Holy Scripture.

We term these things imperfections. Since Christ was perfect, he would have done all these things. Getting up early, extra prayer every day.

But since we are not God incarnate, we shouldn’t get too stuck up about doing these things.

Love God, and you will do these things naturally.

Much as a new bride would do extra things out of love for her husband, so too you will begin to want to do more things for Christ. Weeding out imperfections.

God Bless,

 

[Victorious]

…Breaking wind in public is rude, but by no means is it morally repugnant!..

That depends on what the person has been eating!

St. Alphonsus Ligouri is the patron saint against the dread beast Scruples. Pray to him for help and guidance. He will help you maintain perspective.

 

[LilyM]

Of course Jesus laughed, he hung around children didn’t he? Children say and do funny things whether they intend to or not.

I was reading something interesting a while ago. Jesus told a story about a beggar named Lazarus. Remember, some of his greatest friends were the family of Martha and Mary - and their brother Lazarus. The same Lazarus who he raised from the dead.

By all accounts they were quite wealthy. So by calling the poor pathetic beggar Lazarus, Jesus was apparently poking a little bit of fun at his friend.

 

[Steven_Merten]

Hello Valiant,

I, a troop supporter, once had a discussion with an anti war protester. The prostester used the phrase, “What Would Jesus Do”. “That is an interesting concept”, I responded. “If evil terrorists came to torture, defile and murder Jesus’ mother Mary, What would Jesus do? Would Jesus kill to protect Mary?”

If we say that Jesus would not kill to protect Mary then we would have to rethink even Vatican Swiss Guards and city police. If we agree that Jesus would kill to protect Mary then I think it kind of changes the stigma that people, who use the term “what would Jesus do?” have on the concept.

Asking, would Jesus kill to protect Mary?, certianly puts Jesus in a very human situation. Asking this question certianly puts all other questions as to what Jesus would do, on the back burner.

 

[crusader4life]

Jesus was a Jew.

We need to be realistic about laws. Follow them to the best of your ability (if they don’t go against His will), but there is also a fine line between safety laws that man has made and laws that God establish on moral truths. I guess what I’m trying to say is there’s a boarder in different laws where one affects your relations with other people, and one affects your relationship with God.

I admit. I do my share of J-walking. But I also live in Montana and even our largest towns have streets that is almost void of vehicles. Yet, this doesn’t mean I J-walk at every chance I get. Only when it’s “necessary” (lack of a better word).

But let’s say I start J-walking and a car comes around a corner and barely misses me. I put myself in danger and perhaps the driver and riders of the car, but my soul isn’t really in danger of burning in Hell. For my only intent was to cross the road, not to put anyone in danger (and stupidity isn’t a sin ). J-walking laws are for the safety of pedestrians and are made so drivers don’t have to watch out for everybody on the sidewalk when he/she should be paying attention to traffic.

Any action can become a sin, if that’s your intent. Now for this J-walking example… if you were J-walking with a clear and conscience mind and you want to get hit by a car and die, then that’s a sin.

Hopefully some of this made sense. I’m not too hot when it comes to writting my thoughts on “paper”.

 

[Epistemes]

Hello Valiant,

I, a troop supporter, once had a discussion with an anti war protester. The prostester used the phrase, “What Would Jesus Do”. “That is an interesting concept”, I responded. “If evil terrorists came to torture, defile and murder Jesus’ mother Mary, What would Jesus do? Would Jesus kill to protect Mary?”

If we say that Jesus would not kill to protect Mary then we would have to rethink even Vatican Swiss Guards and city police. If we agree that Jesus would kill to protect Mary then I think it kind of changes the stigma that people, who use the term “what would Jesus do?” have on the concept.

Asking, would Jesus kill to protect Mary?, certianly puts Jesus in a very human situation. Asking this question certianly puts all other questions as to what Jesus would do, on the back burner.

Wouldn’t Jesus *not *revenge the death of his mother? Surely Jesus would’ve recognized that the rewards of heaven are much greater for a sinless woman than remaining on earth.

 

[quasimodo]

“Wherever the Catholic sun doth shine
There’s always laughter and good red wine.
At least I’ve always found it so.
Benedicamus Domino!”

More wisdom from G. K. Chesterton.

nope …Hilaire Belloc

 

[Steven_Merten]

Wouldn’t Jesus *not *revenge the death of his mother? Surely Jesus would’ve recognized that the rewards of heaven are much greater for a sinless woman than remaining on earth.

Hello Epistemes,

I am a bit confused as to your meaning? Is it revenge to use force, even lethal force, to protect the innocent? If Jesus would have used lethal force to protect His mother, I do not see this as revenge. I do not think that it would be a sin for Jesus, or anyone to use force, even lethal force, to protect the innocent.

 

[BlestOne]

Hello Epistemes,

I am a bit confused as to your meaning? Is it revenge to use force, even lethal force, to protect the innocent? If Jesus would have used lethal force to protect His mother, I do not see this as revenge. I do not think that it would be a sin for Jesus, or anyone to use force, even lethal force, to protect the innocent.

This is what I was thinking too… remember Jesus is God, he knows what is best for all, and when it is their time to go. Protecting the innocent is not revenge at all. It is defending God’s most vunerable children, and is valiant. We are all called to defend such as these. Jesus would protect his mother from premature departure from this earth for sure… just as my sons would defend me to the death if necessary. I would do the same for all my children… There is no crime in this.

 

[Victorious]

Wouldn’t Jesus *not *revenge the death of his mother? Surely Jesus would’ve recognized that the rewards of heaven are much greater for a sinless woman than remaining on earth.

As regards the first sentence: to equate vengeance and defense is a sign of very confused thinking. As regards the second sentence: it would take a high degree of moral bankruptcy to refuse to save an innocent person on the grounds that they’d be better off in heaven.

We all have a responsibility to carry out the tasks that we are set to – like saving an innocent life when the opportunity presents itself, and it lies within our power to try. Even if it is not God’s will that that person actually be saved, we cannot know this, and therefore we still have a duty to make the attempt. We can, however, know what His will is concerning us at that moment, and we are responsible before Him if we fail to do our best to carry it out as we understand it.

 

[Texas_Roofer]

Hello Valiant,

I, a troop supporter, once had a discussion with an anti war protester. The prostester used the phrase, “What Would Jesus Do”. “That is an interesting concept”, I responded. “If evil terrorists came to torture, defile and murder Jesus’ mother Mary, What would Jesus do? Would Jesus kill to protect Mary?”

If we say that Jesus would not kill to protect Mary then we would have to rethink even Vatican Swiss Guards and city police. If we agree that Jesus would kill to protect Mary then I think it kind of changes the stigma that people, who use the term “what would Jesus do?” have on the concept.

Asking, would Jesus kill to protect Mary?, certianly puts Jesus in a very human situation. Asking this question certianly puts all other questions as to what Jesus would do, on the back burner.

This seems inconsistent with his past actions, Phrases were always looking for an entrapment of Jesus

 

[Steven_Merten]

This seems inconsistent with his past actions, Phrases were always looking for an entrapment of Jesus

Hello Texas Roofer,

I think that Jesus would have used force, or commanded His disiples to use force to protect His mother. It is hard for me to imagine Jesus and his apostles standing by idle and doing nothing as Mary is tortured and murdered.

If the Pope believed that Jesus would stand by idle while His mother was tortured and murdered, it would be hard to imagine that the Pope would still rely on force to protect himself. Out of respect and love for Mary, one would imagine that the Pope would only accept what Jesus would do to protect Mary when deciding how to protect himself and Vatican property. I highly doubt that even the Pope believes that Jesus would not use force, even deadly force, to protect His mother. I am sure the Pope has asked himself, in regard to papal use of Swiss Guard violence to protect himself, What would Jesus Do?

Is this not revelations 19:11 describing Jesus?

NAB REV 19:11 The King of Kings.
The heavens were opened, and as I looked on, a white horse appeared; its rider was called “The Faithful and True.” Justice is his standard in passing judgement and in waging war…

…The rest were slain by the sword which came out of the mouth of the One who rode the horse, and all the birds gorged themselves on the flesh of the slain.

 

[Texas_Roofer]

Hello Texas Roofer,

I think that Jesus would have used force, or commanded His disiples to use force to protect His mother. It is hard for me to imagine Jesus and his apostles standing by idle and doing nothing as Mary is tortured and murdered.

If the Pope believed that Jesus would stand by idle while His mother was tortured and murdered, it would be hard to imagine that the Pope would still rely on force to protect himself. Out of respect and love for Mary, one would imagine that the Pope would only accept what Jesus would do to protect Mary when deciding how to protect himself and Vatican property. I highly doubt that even the Pope believes that Jesus would not use force, even deadly force, to protect His mother. I am sure the Pope has asked himself, in regard to papal use of Swiss Guard violence to protect himself, What would Jesus Do?

Is this not revelations 19:11 describing Jesus?

NAB REV 19:11 The King of Kings.
The heavens were opened, and as I looked on, a white horse appeared; its rider was called “The Faithful and True.” Justice is his standard in passing judgement and in waging war…

…The rest were slain by the sword which came out of the mouth of the One who rode the horse, and all the birds gorged themselves on the flesh of the slain.

I think his words on this subject were " forgive them as they know not what they do".
Also I think all of Revelations is symbolic, the sword you note is probably the word of God not a metal weapon.

 

[Steven_Merten]

I think his words on this subject were " forgive them as they know not what they do".
Also I think all of Revelations is symbolic, the sword you note is probably the word of God not a metal weapon.

Hello Texas Roofer,

It is true that the sword of Christ’s mouth smites people with spritual death rather than the physical death of the flesh.

The Sword of Christ’s mouth is the “keys to the Kingdom”. When Jesus binds a soul to sin with His lips, that soul is struck down with eternal death.

Is not spiritual death, delivered from the lips of Jesus, more deadly than physical death?

Throwing Stones

NAB REV 19:11
The King of Kings.
The heavens were opened, and as I looked on, a white horse appeared; its rider was called “The Faithful and True.” Justice is his standard in passing judgment and in waging war. His eyes blazed like fire, and on his head were many diadems. Inscribed on his person was a name known to no one but himself. He wore a cloak that had been dipped in blood, and his name was the Word of God. The armies of heaven were behind him riding white horses and dressed in fine linen, pure and white. Out of his mouth came a sharp sword for striking down the nations. He will shepherd them with an iron rod; it is he who will tread out in the winepress the blazing wrath of God the Almighty. A name was written on the part of the cloak that covered his thigh: “King of kings and Lord of lords.” **NAB REV 1:16 **

A sharp, two-edged sword came out of his mouth, and his face shone like the sun at its brightest. When I caught sight of him I fell down at his feet as though dead, he touched me with his right hand and said: “There is nothing to fear. I am the First and the Last and the One who lives. Once I was dead but not I live-- forever and ever. I hold the keys of death and the nether world.”
**NAB MAT 16:13 **

Jesus replied, “Blest are you, Simon son of John! No mere man has revealed this to you, but my heavenly Father. I for my part declare to you, you are ‘Rock,’ and on this rock I will build my church, and the jaws of death shall not prevail against it. I will entrust to you the keys of the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you declare bound on earth shall be bound in heaven; whatever you declare loosed on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”

**NAB ISA 11:4 **The Rule of Immanuel
He shall strike the ruthless with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips he shall slay the wicked. NAB PSA 2:8

Ask of me and I will give you the nations for an inheritance and the ends of the earth for your possessions. You shall rule them with an iron rod; you shall shatter them like an earthen dish."**NAB JOH 20:20 **

At the sight of the Lord the disciples rejoiced. “Peace be with you,” he said again. “As the Father has sent me, so I send you.” Then he breathed on them and said: “Recieve the Holy Spirit. If you forgive men’s sins, they are forgiven them; if you hold them bound, they are held bound.” NAB MAT 5:22

What I say to you is: everyone who grows angry with his brother shall be liable to judgement; any man who uses abusive language toward his brother shall be** answerable to the Sanhedrin,** and if he holds him in contempt he risks the fires of Gehenna. **NAB MAT 18:17 **

“If he ignores them, refer it to the church . If he ignores even the church, then treat him as you would a Gentile or a tax collector. I assure you, whatever you declare bound on earth shall be held bound in heaven, and whatever you declare loosed on earth shall be held loosed in heaven.”