What is Sin?

[dan1el]

When Paul says,
“What then? Shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?” Romans 6:15, 16

keeping in mind that he also says,

“…for until the Law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law.” Romans 5:13

Okay, what is this guy saying!!? Am I supposed to observe the law, understanding where it came from (the Mind of God) and giving thanks for it, thereby entering Sabbath rest of trusting God? …
There is Jesus’ view of this, Paul’s, and John’s… oh, God!

Jesus says to follow the Law, but in Spirit… instead of stoning the woman, according to the superficial understanding of the law, he said not to stone the woman, based on His deep understanding of the law, wherein whoever would cast the first stone would first, himself, have to be without sin…

yes, I know, many times Paul says we are not under the law, the law is the shadow of things to come, that the man who is sinful needs the law but that we are holy creations in christ and do not need the law… but here he is saying that all sin is breaking the law… does this mean that if we observe the law – in a non-legalistic way, but rather in a way that is like “finally, I found the truth!”, that this is the will of God???
John says in 1 John 3:4
“Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.”

What on earth am I to make of this? Do I follow the law or not? I don’t even care, I just want to know.

 

[Texas_Roofer]

He is referring to a detail list of Mosiac Laws

Laws of the Torah
See also Oral law; Halacha l’Moshe m’Sinai; Relationship between the Bible and the Mishnah and Talmud.
Broadly, the Halakha comprises the practical application of the commandments (each one known as a mitzvah) in the Torah, as developed in subsequent rabbinic literature; see The Mitzvot and Jewish Law. According to the Talmud (Tractate Makot), there are 613 mitzvot (“commandments”) in the Torah; in Hebrew these are known as the Taryag mitzvot תרי"ג מצוות. There are 248 positive mitzvot and 365 negative mitzvot given in the Torah, supplemented by seven mitzvot legislated by the rabbis of antiquity; see Rabbinical commandments. - answers.com/topic/mosaic-law

for a list go to :answers.com/topic/613-mitzvot-1

 

[StCsDavid]

Perhaps this commentary on this passage of Romans by St.John Chrysostom will help in your understanding of it. I’m not sure you’re capturing the context of what Paul is trying to say:

I do not, he would say, mention hell as yet, nor that great punishment, but the shame it is in this world, when ye become slaves, and slaves of your own accord too, and sin’s slaves, and when the wages are such as a second death. For if before baptism, it wrought death of the body, and the wound required so great attendance, that the Lord of all came down to die, and so put a stop to the evil; if after so great a gift, and so great liberty, it seize thee again, while thou bendest down under it willingly, what is there that it may not do? Do not then run into such a pit, or willingly give thyself up. For in the case of wars, soldiers are often given up even against their will. But in this case, unless thou desertest of thyself, there is no one who will get the better of thee. Having then tried to shame them by a sense of duty, he alarms them also by the rewards, and lays before them the wages of both; righteousness, and death, and that a death not like the former, but far worse. For if Christ is to die no more, who is to do away with death? No one! We must then be punished, and have vengeance taken upon us forever. For a death preceptible to the senses is not still to come in this case, as in the former, which gives the body rest, and separates it from the soul. “For the last enemy, death, is destroyed” (1Co 15,26), whence the punishment will be deathless. But not to them that obey, for righteousness, and the blessings springing from it, will be their rewards.

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Chrysostom on Romans - 1104

 

[dan1el]

Perhaps this commentary on this passage of Romans by St.John Chrysostom will help in your understanding of it. I’m not sure you’re capturing the context of what Paul is trying to say:

I do not, he would say, mention hell as yet, nor that great punishment, but the shame it is in this world, when ye become slaves, and slaves of your own accord too, and sin’s slaves, and when the wages are such as a second death. For if before baptism, it wrought death of the body, and the wound required so great attendance, that the Lord of all came down to die, and so put a stop to the evil; if after so great a gift, and so great liberty, it seize thee again, while thou bendest down under it willingly, what is there that it may not do? Do not then run into such a pit, or willingly give thyself up. For in the case of wars, soldiers are often given up even against their will. But in this case, unless thou desertest of thyself, there is no one who will get the better of thee. Having then tried to shame them by a sense of duty, he alarms them also by the rewards, and lays before them the wages of both; righteousness, and death, and that a death not like the former, but far worse. For if Christ is to die no more, who is to do away with death? No one! We must then be punished, and have vengeance taken upon us forever. For a death preceptible to the senses is not still to come in this case, as in the former, which gives the body rest, and separates it from the soul. “For the last enemy, death, is destroyed” (1Co 15,26), whence the punishment will be deathless. But not to them that obey, for righteousness, and the blessings springing from it, will be their rewards.

​

Chrysostom on Romans - 1104

Actually, no, this doesn’t assist me. lol

I want to know why they say that “sin is transgression of the law”, and yet we are free from the law… that we do not have to look at the law. How are you going to know whether you are maintaining the law if you do not look to it?
“These words of the law shall not depart from your mouth…”
Is it referring to the “law written on our hearts” now???

Is there a senior member who can help?

 

[Ruthie]

Daniel, Texas Roofer got it right. Paul is not referring to the “law of the land,” as it were; he is referring to the many Jewish religious laws detailed in the OT. See his post for details…

If you’re trying to use Paul’s references to “the law” as an excuse for disobeying any current laws you disagree with, it doesn’t work!

Ruthie

 

[dan1el]

Daniel, Texas Roofer got it right. Paul is not referring to the “law of the land,” as it were; he is referring to the many Jewish religious laws detailed in the OT. See his post for details…

If you’re trying to use Paul’s references to “the law” as an excuse for disobeying any current laws you disagree with, it doesn’t work!

Ruthie

No, I just wanted to know whether I should obey the Laws of Moses, that’s all.

 

[Mailman]

Hi dan1e1,
Let me try to explain. I am not Catholic so this may not be in accord with Catholic teaching.

As you pointed out, we are told in 1 John 3:4: “… sin is the transgression of the law.” This is God’s definition of sin. When we transgress the Law, we commit sin. What if God had not given us any law to follow? “… where no law is, there is no transgression” (Rom. 4:15). Of course, if there is no Law, we would not be committing any sin, for sin is known only by the points of the Law: “I had not known sin but by the law” (Rom. 7:7).

So, the purpose of the Law becomes clear: “For by the law is the knowledge of sin” (Rom. 3:20). The Law tells us what sin is. The Law is like a mirror. We look at the mirror and we see some dirt in our face. The mirror is not the dirt; it just tells us that the dirt is there. It’s like saying, “For by this mirror I know there is dirt in my face.”

The Law is God’s spiritual mirror. When we look at it, it reveals to us what is sin. “But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves. For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass…” (Jas. 1:22-25).

Now, what is the penalty for sin? “For the wages of sin is death” (Rom. 6:23). But everyone has committed sin for “all have sinned and come short of the glory of God…” (Rom. 3:23). If all have sinned, then all are under the penalty of death. “Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned” (Rom. 5:12).

How could we blot out our sins so that we may escape this death penalty? “For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins” (Matt. 26:28). “In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace “ (Eph. 1:7).

When we accept Christ’s sacrifice, our sins will be forgiven. It is through God’s grace – His mercy – that this is made possible: “For by grace are you saved [from the death penalty]…” (Eph. 2:8). “Being justified freely BY HIS GRACE through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus” (Rom. 3:24). We are freed from the penalty of death by God’s grace through faith in Christ.

Then what happens? “For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace” (Rom. 6:14). The Law’s penalty for the transgressor is death. It has power to take the life of the sinner therefore it is over the sinner. It is the sinner then who is “under the law.” When the sinner repents and accepts Christ’s sacrifice then he is pardoned – “under grace” – and the law no longer stands over him. He is not under the Law’s penalty anymore, but under grace.

And so when we are now under the state of grace – freed from the penalty of death, Paul asks: “What then, shall we sin [transgress the law] because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid” (Rom. 6:15). Paul says that just because we are under grace does not mean we are not under obligation to obey the Law – that we are licensed to sin. We must not return to rebellion against God’s Law. If we do, we are again under the Law – again automatically sentenced to death. Paul is clear that we have to obey the Law. He never said we do not need the Law. He said: “Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we ESTABLISH the law” (Rom. 3:31).

About Jesus saying to follow the Law in spirit, He meant that we have to obey the law not only in its literal meaning but also in its spiritual intent. This is the essence of Christ’s discourse in Matthew chapter 5. Since He was preaching something new about the Law, so as not to be misunderstood, He said: “Think not that I am come to destroy the law or the prophets…” (Matt. 5:17). And made known His purpose: “… I am not come to destroy, but TO FULFILL.”

The word translated “fulfill” comes from the Greek pleero, meaning to make full or fill to the full, complete, perfect. Jesus came to “fill to the full” the Law. The prophet Isaiah said of Christ: “… he will magnify the law, and make it honourable” (Isa. 42:21). Christ came to magnify the Law to its highest spiritual fulfillment and showed us – by the life He lived – how it is to be fulfilled in its perfect, spiritual intent. He magnified them to greater spiritual requirements. Now, control of bodily actions is no longer enough. The mind, the heart, must also become pure – sinless – just as Christ’s was.

The reason why this more “stringent” requirement of keeping the Law was not required before was because the Holy Spirit was not yet then made available to man (except to a few – God’s prophets and those whom He chooses for a purpose). Now, we can have the Holy Spirit after repentance and baptism.

God bless,