Thistle, do you know why the CCC was written?This is from the Catechism’s Apostolic Constitution.
“This catechism is given to them that it may be a sure and authentic** reference text **for teaching catholic doctrine and particularly for preparing local catechisms.”
“This catechism **
is not intended to replace the local catechisms duly approved by the ecclesiastical authorities, the diocesan Bishops and the Episcopal Conferences, especially if they have been approved by the Apostolic See. It is meant to encourage and assist in the writing of new local catechisms, which take into account various situations and cultures, while carefully preserving the unity of faith and fidelity to catholic doctrine.”
You don’t get to say THIS Catechism Trumps the Roman Catechism or Vice Versa. You cannot say it REPLACES the Douay Catechism or the Catechism of Pope St. Pius X, because these are ALL Valid Catechisms which are part of the Ordinary Magisterium which does NOT contradict itself.
So the CCC does not need to be my final reference. It does not abrogate other Catechisms.
ALL these Catechisms Teach clearly and concisely the fate of unbaptized children. TO say we don’t know is just ignorant. Study the history of the questions on limbo, and you will be in a better position to dialogue.
“Q. #100 - Where do infants go who die without Baptism?
A. - Infants who die without Baptism go to Limbo where they do not enjoy the sight of God, but also do no suffer. This is because having original sin, and it alone, they do not merit heaven, but neither do they merit purgatory or hell.”
-Catechism of Pope Saint Pius X, first published in 1910 AD.
- Q. Is Baptism necessary to salvation?
A. Baptism is necessary to salvation, because without it we cannot enter into the kingdom of Heaven…Think, then, what a terrible crime it is to willfully allow anyone to die without Baptism, **or to deprive a little child of life before it can be baptized! Suppose all the members of a family but one little infant have been baptized; when the Day of Judgment comes, while all the other members of a family-father, mother, and children-may go into Heaven, that little one will have to remain out; that little brother or sister will be separated from its family forever, and never, never see God or Heaven. How heartless and cruel, then, must a person be who would deprive that little infant of happiness for all eternity-just that its mother or someone else might have a little less trouble or suffering here upon earth. **
-Baltimore Catechism 4
Douay Catechism
APPROBATION.
WE feel pleasure in recommending to the faithful of our Diocese this edition of “An Abridgment of the Christian Doctrine, with proofs of Scripture on points controverted,” as we have found it essentially conformable to the Dublin edition of 1820, of the correctness of which we entertain no doubt.
Q. How is original sin taken away?
A. By holy baptism.
Q. Whither go infants that die without baptism?
A. To a part of hell, where they endure the pain of loss, but not of sense, and shall
never see the face of God.
Q. How prove you that?
A. Out of John iii. 5. “Unless a man be born again of water, and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.”
Catechism of the Council of Trent:
"If, then, through the transgression of Adam, children inherit original sin, with still stronger reason can they attain through Christ our Lord grace and justice that they may reign in life.
This, however, cannot be effected otherwise than by Baptism."
“The Church has shown by her teach and practice that she knows no other way apart from baptism for ensuring children’s entry into eternal happiness.”
-Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, 1980 AD, with approval of Pope John Paul II
The Catechism of the Catholic Church is not infallible. Affirming it is not affirming dogma, because obviously, you can’t affirm any dogma outside its interpretation.
Do you submit with all your heart to this DOGMA:
Council of Florence
“The souls of those who die in mortal sin or with original sin only, however, immediately descend to hell, to be punished however with disparate [disparibus] punishments.”
And this: Coucnil of Trent, Session 5, Canon 4.
- "If any one denies, that infants, newly born from their mothers’ wombs, even though they be sprung from baptized parents, are to be baptized; or says that they are baptized indeed for the remission of sins, but that they derive nothing of original sin from Adam, which has need of being expiated by the laver of regeneration for the obtaining life everlasting,–whence it follows as a consequence, that in them the form of baptism, for the remission of sins, is understood to be not true, but false, --let him be anathema. For that which the apostle has said, By one man sin entered into the world, and by sin death, and so death passed upon all men in whom all have sinned, is not to be understood otherwise than as the Catholic Church spread everywhere hath always understood it.** For, by reason of this rule of faith, from a tradition of the apostles, even infants, who could not as yet commit any sin of themselves, are for this cause truly baptized for the remission of sins, that in them that may be cleansed away by regeneration, which they have contracted by generation. For, unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God." **
I am sorry if you dont like it or can’t take it, but there it is. Unbaptized Children do not enter the beatific vision is the constant teaching of the Church and is Dogma, based on florence. Infants die in original sin alone, and thus, they cannot see God. That is the faith.
