What is so wrong with the hymn "Gift of Finest Wheat"?

[Elizabeth779]

While I’ve heard many complaints about other hymns, “Gift of Finest Wheat” is actually one of the few “newer” hymns that rarely (if ever) receive complaints - at least in the the “real” world. But this thread is actually the first time I’ve read of any kind of problem with it.

I don’t mind the hymn. It’s not my favorite, but it has a pleasant-enough melody and most people can sing it. The congregations at the parishes where I sing usually don’t have a problem with it. The only “problem” I heard from my voice students and others in the pews was the tendency to do a lot of scooping with the piece because of how it’s composed. The scooping can make it sound really cheesy, but you can make any melody, even the most beautiful, sound cheesy and trite when you scoop. That can be remedied, though, as I cured that habit with my students.

Hi Sarabande – would you describe please what is scooping? I’m wondering if I do it when I sing…

 

[pnewton]

If there is one complaint for the song, it is that I don’t like the harmony of the 4-part choral arrangement when I learned this song. I think I’ll be doing my own choral arrangement of this. Hehehehe!

• flies away! :thankyou:

I heard a really cool male baritone part for this once on a tape that was better than that which was written. I wish I still had it.

FYI - I plan on using this next week.

 

[Elizium23]

Hi Sarabande – would you describe please what is scooping? I’m wondering if I do it when I sing…

Scooping is the act of sliding (usually upwards) the pitch of what you sing, towards the desired pitch in the music, rather than hitting it square on. Scoops are often undesirable in singing because they indicate that the singer is inexperienced and has trouble anticipating the pitch before he applies air to sing it. The human voice scoops easily because it is a variable-pitch instrument, that is, we aren’t limited to any particular discrete scale like a saxophone is, where scooping is a desirable technique that must be learned.

 

[davetv]

If a song is in the Catholic hymnal there is nothing “wrong” about it. Not everyone has the same musical tastes, that’s all.

I can think of at least one song that is heretical in a Catholic hymnal and it grates me every time I hear it. The melody is catchy so it’s used a lot but the lyrics ARE NOT Catholic and I needs to be rewritten or banned.

 

[quilisma]

I’ve never cared for “Gift of Finest Wheat” just because it seems ungrammatical (a pet peeve of mine). Shouldn’t it be “You satisfy the hungry heart with A gift”… or maybe “YOUR gift”… or something? It always seemed as if a word was missing in there.

The odd syncopation has always grated on my nerves, too. (I’m referring to the way it sounds as if there is a missing beat between “wheat” and “come give to us”) When we were kids, my brother used to say, “I’m going to buy that organist a metronome!” every time it was played. It wasn’t until I became a church musician myself that I realized it was WRITTEN that way… and I still don’t like it.

Regarding “On Eagles’ Wings”, it always bothered me that the melody begins on the major seventh of the scale… not an easy note to “find” from the introduction, either for the singer (if not already familiar with the piece) or for the hapless congregation member trying to “participate”.

I’d rather have Mozart any day… or Gregorian chant!

 

[Sarabande]

Hi Sarabande – would you describe please what is scooping? I’m wondering if I do it when I sing…

Hi Elizabeth! Elizium gave you a good answer of what scooping is. A lot of untrained singers do it…and even some trained singers do it due to bad habit that was never corrected. What I find with my voice students and just from listening to people is that a lot of people scoop because they think they are putting expression into the music. It gives some pieces an over-the-top sentimentality. Sometimes, though, it is done because they just can’t find the pitch. Some opera singers, especially those who sing mostly mid to late 19th century repertoire, do it, too, althouh sometimes you can make it work, but it’s not really desirable because it often makes it sound sloppy. You never, ever do it for vocal music written in earlier periods. It’s a HUGE no-no.

One of the best examples I can think of where people love to “sentimentalise” it up with scooping is the early 20th century religious song, “Mother at your Feet is Kneeling”. It was a popular piece for funerals when people of a certain generation began to pass away. It was also popular for the Presentation of the Blessed Mother during that same generation, then their granddaughters used it for a while as a sentimental piece in remembrance for their grandmothers. My actual computer is not working anymore so when I have a chance, I’ll search for a good example of it.

 

[Phemie]

Personally I’d prefer a spoken Mass to one with many of the modern hymns (you think English is bad, most of the modern French hymns are even worse).

I agree.

Other than at Notre Dame in Paris last year where I heard a chanted Latin Gloria I hadn’t heard since Vat. II, I haven’t been to a French Mass in decades where a true ‘Gloria’ has been sung. GIRM 53 be damned, they always sing a paraphrased song for this. They also often mess with the Sanctus and the Agnus Dei regardless of the fact that it’s forbidden to change the words.

 

[Contarini]

And felt banners still seen in our churches would be another. There is no accounting for individual taste in music, and the masses will never agree, but I personally find most of the music in the OCP banal, insipid and unworthy of the ceremony we are celebrating.

Pardon my venting, but the ones I dislike the most are “On Eagles Wings” and “Gather the People.” I close my lips when we are to sing “here we become what we eat.” Really?? Even when not taken literally, it smacks of a certain new-age phraseology to me.

It’s a concept right out of the Fathers. The fact that you don’t recognize it indicates that something is seriously lacking in traditional Catholic piety and that the post-Vatican-II liturgical renewal, however goofy it may have been at times, was desperately needed.

I think it’s sloppy to say that something “smacks of new-age phraseology.” As in this case, often people reject perfectly orthodox ideas because they think they sound “new age.” Say what is actually heretical about it or leave it alone.

Edwin

 

[CruceSignati]

Look out! Another crazy “Traditionalist” joining the thread! :whackadoo:

I am not partial to “Gift of Finest Wheat”, or many of the other ahem modern hymns that are used in some parishes today. My mother absolutely despises “Lord of the Dance”, but likes “On Eagle’s Wings”. As one of the three musicians who plays and sings for Mass every third week, I have to not only pick suitable music, but also please the people (I am white but the parish is a Native mission, and there have been problems with white folks there before). I end up using Catholic Book of Worship III for pretty much everything. The Psalms coming from there are kind of spotty, so if the Psalm for a certain Sunday if difficult to sing I will find another arrangement or make somthing up.

I have the instrumentalist copies of Spirit and Song 1 and 2, but I almost never use them. Would you believe that they have a section for rap, but no Latin or Gregorian chant?! I also found an old CBW II kicking around at church so I brought it home and I am trying to learn the Mass parts in Latin. It only has Mass XVI, but I suppose that is enough for me to start with.

 

[ProVobis]

Regarding “On Eagles’ Wings”, it always bothered me that the melody begins on the major seventh of the scale… not an easy note to “find” from the introduction, either for the singer (if not already familiar with the piece) or for the hapless congregation member trying to “participate”.

I’d rather have Mozart any day… or Gregorian chant!

Here too. My organ hymnal has it in Db and I don’t even bother transposing with it. If they want it that badly, let them sing it in F or whatever key they end up without me.

 

[Phemie]

Look out! Another crazy “Traditionalist” joining the thread! :whackadoo:

I am not partial to “Gift of Finest Wheat”, or many of the other ahem modern hymns that are used in some parishes today. My mother absolutely despises “Lord of the Dance”, but likes “On Eagle’s Wings”.

“Lord of the Dance” made its appearance in the United Church of Canada hymnal around the mid 70s. My FIL, who sang in the choir of his local UCC church, despised it and thought it was one of the most vile things he’d ever been asked to sing.

As one of the three musicians who plays and sings for Mass every third week, I have to not only pick suitable music, but also please the people (I am white but the parish is a Native mission, and there have been problems with white folks there before). I end up using Catholic Book of Worship III for pretty much everything. The Psalms coming from there are kind of spotty, so if the Psalm for a certain Sunday if difficult to sing I will find another arrangement or make something up.

I’m not sure we’re even supposed to use the psalms in CBW III since the translation is different now. As far as I can see, the folks at Novalis, who bring us “Living with Christ” and the “Sunday Missal” only use one composer’s settings for the new psalms (Gordon Johnson’s), since they market his 3-volume “Psalms for the Liturgical Year”.

Our choir has sung most psalms on the same psalm tone for the last 16 years. It works. Sometimes repetition is good. Pick a psalm tone and stick with it. Obviously the tune for the refrain changes from week to week but at least you don’t have to learn a new psalm every week.

I have the instrumentalist copies of Spirit and Song 1 and 2, but I almost never use them. Would you believe that they have a section for rap, but no Latin or Gregorian chant?! I also found an old CBW II kicking around at church so I brought it home and I am trying to learn the Mass parts in Latin. It only has Mass XVI, but I suppose that is enough for me to start with.

I can believe that from Spirit and Song. They wanted to buy that for our parish when they had a ‘hip’ Sister and another new musician in the choir. It was around 2005 and I was aware that a new translation of the Mass was coming down the pipe so I asked if it was wise to spend so much money and still not be able to use all of the book when the new translation arrived. Luckily it was agreed that perhaps that purchase needed to wait.

We still have CBW II in the pews in my parish and use it from time to time. Sometimes that’s good because it means we are using the old words for old hymn (old lyrics of “Immaculate Mary”, for example, or lyrics that have not been gender neutralized) but sometimes it’s bad because it means we are using hymns they were wise enough not to include in the CBW III.

If you want to learn Latin settings download “Jubilate Deo”.

 

[OraLabora]

I agree.

Other than at Notre Dame in Paris last year where I heard a chanted Latin Gloria I hadn’t heard since Vat. II, I haven’t been to a French Mass in decades where a true ‘Gloria’ has been sung. GIRM 53 be damned, they always sing a paraphrased song for this. They also often mess with the Sanctus and the Agnus Dei regardless of the fact that it’s forbidden to change the words.

Which Gloria was it, do you recall?

If you managed to drop in at the abbey for Mass on a Sunday or feast, you’ll hear the appropriate Latin Gloria from the Graduale Romanum (and the correct Kyrie, Sanctus, etc., and the correct propers for the day…). But you knew that

I believe Notre Dame do at least one Mass in Gregorian chant?

 

[Phemie]

Which Gloria was it, do you recall?

If you managed to drop in at the abbey for Mass on a Sunday or feast, you’ll hear the appropriate Latin Gloria from the Graduale Romanum (and the correct Kyrie, Sanctus, etc., and the correct propers for the day…). But you knew that

I believe Notre Dame do at least one Mass in Gregorian chant?

When we planned our trip we made sure to be in Venice for the Sunday Mass at San Marco and in Paris for Sunday Mass at Notre Dame.

In Venice, Mass was in Italian and in Paris it was in French but in both cases the Ordinary was chanted in Latin. Which settings, I couldn’t tell you as I’m not that familiar with chant. It was this Gloria.

Presently in Orleans (helping out DD who recently gave birth to our second grandson). Hoping to return home via St. Benoit du Lac (a slight ‘detour’ ) in the next few weeks.

 

[Phemie]

If you managed to drop in at the abbey for Mass on a Sunday or feast, you’ll hear the appropriate Latin Gloria from the Graduale Romanum (and the correct Kyrie, Sanctus, etc., and the correct propers for the day…). But you knew that

You know, I was just thinking. It’s pretty sad when, before last summer’s trip, the only Greek Kyrie I’d heard since the 60s was from Enigma’s 1980s hit “Mea Culpa”, a decidedly less than Catholic song, which includes it in the background. I remember being hit by that song while in a record store in PEI in the late 80s. All I could make out were the Greek lyrics in a setting I remembered from a distant past. When I finally saw the video and read the other lyrics I was not amused.

 

[OraLabora]

You know, I was just thinking. It’s pretty sad when, before last summer’s trip, the only Greek Kyrie I’d heard since the 60s was from Enigma’s 1980s hit “Mea Culpa”, a decidedly less than Catholic song, which includes it in the background. I remember being hit by that song while in a record store in PEI in the late 80s. All I could make out were the Greek lyrics in a setting I remembered from a distant past. When I finally saw the video and read the other lyrics I was not amused.

Maybe this gem will make up for it

Orbis Factor

Something lost at Trent I’m afraid, but beautiful nonetheless…

 

[Oneofthewomen]

You know, I was just thinking. It’s pretty sad when, before last summer’s trip, the only Greek Kyrie I’d heard since the 60s was from Enigma’s 1980s hit “Mea Culpa”, a decidedly less than Catholic song, which includes it in the background. I remember being hit by that song while in a record store in PEI in the late 80s. All I could make out were the Greek lyrics in a setting I remembered from a distant past. When I finally saw the video and read the other lyrics I was not amused.

You just hit the nail on the head, Phemie, as to why ***I ***do not find Gregorian Chant to be “best suited for the Liturgy”.

Back in the mid-80’s to early '90’s,as a teen & young adult who was not practicing my faith- I loved the music of Enigma, and some of the Chant CD’s that were also popular at the time. As a fantasy war-gamer (D&D, Warhammer, etc) these were the things we played during our marathon gaming sessions, along with lots of Wagner!!

Now, when I hear Gregorian-style chant, this is what I think of- not very spiritual!

I do love more simple styles of chant, especially Taize, but Gregorian is not for me.

And, to the OP- I love “Gifts of Finest Wheat”, and have never heard anyone complain about it, except for those who don’t like “schmaltzy music” and would prefer silence or chant.

 

[Phemie]

Maybe this gem will make up for it

Orbis Factor

Something lost at Trent I’m afraid, but beautiful nonetheless…

Bookmarking this. Thanks!!

Have to admit that my favorite rendition of a vernacular Kyrie is this Gaelic one in the refrain of this song. OK, it’s less than liturgical.

 

[OraLabora]

When we planned our trip we made sure to be in Venice for the Sunday Mass at San Marco and in Paris for Sunday Mass at Notre Dame.

In Venice, Mass was in Italian and in Paris it was in French but in both cases the Ordinary was chanted in Latin. Which settings, I couldn’t tell you as I’m not that familiar with chant. It was this Gloria.

Presently in Orleans (helping out DD who recently gave birth to our second grandson). Hoping to return home via St. Benoit du Lac (a slight ‘detour’ ) in the next few weeks.

Gloria VIII “de Angelis” or Mass of the Angels. Some don’t consider it “Gregorian” due to its relative recency, but it is the most well-known Mass setting at the parish level.

 

[Phemie]

Gloria VIII “de Angelis” or Mass of the Angels. Some don’t consider it “Gregorian” due to its relative recency, but it is the most well-known Mass setting at the parish level.

Is it the one in Jubilate Deo? I was looking at the notation to see if it was similar.

 

[Phemie]

You just hit the nail on the head, Phemie, as to why ***I ***do not find Gregorian Chant to be “best suited for the Liturgy”.

Back in the mid-80’s to early '90’s,as a teen & young adult who was not practicing my faith- I loved the music of Enigma, and some of the Chant CD’s that were also popular at the time. As a fantasy war-gamer (D&D, Warhammer, etc) these were the things we played during our marathon gaming sessions, along with lots of Wagner!!

Now, when I hear Gregorian-style chant, this is what I think of- not very spiritual!

I do love more simple styles of chant, especially Taize, but Gregorian is not for me.

And, to the OP- I love “Gifts of Finest Wheat”, and have never heard anyone complain about it, except for those who don’t like “schmaltzy music” and would prefer silence or chant.

For me it was my memory of that particular Gregorian chant that attracted me to the Enigma song and not vice versa. To each his own, I guess.

Though “Gift of Finest Wheat” is not my favorite, I’ll take it over some of Carey Landry’s stuff any day.