"What is the age of the earth?"

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Hello bkayw,

Honestly, it doesn’t require astrophysics to explain the cosmology of the Ancient Near East and how well it’s duplicated in Genesis, and even more so in Job. While there’s no physical analogue to the star-embedded firmament holding back the waters, I could cite works running from the Enuma Elish to the Eridu Genesis across a period of 1900 years prior to the writing of Genesis that contain the same elements.

The attempt to draw out a description of creation from these texts is wrong-headed in my view. It’s clear to me that the writers were using the cosmology of the time that “everyone knew” in order to tell a story about their gods, and the writers of Genesis continued this tradition, replacing the earlier creators from Enki to Marduk with the Hebrew god. When you read the midrash, the ancient commentaries that accompanied these texts, it’s quite clear that the original audience wasn’t looking for lessons in cosmology, let alone literal interpretations. Genesis itself contains two widely divergent views of their god in chapters 1 and 2, and it was the aspects of this god as a creator that concerned them, not the creation itself.

Ross is an interesting fellow, but his rejection of biological evolution is unacceptable, and is yet another example of a scientist embarrassing himself by writing outside his field of expertise. His localized flood that nevertheless encompassed all of humanity is not merely blind to the origins of the tale, but false to fact. Humans have never been gathered together inside a single river valley within the geological record. Anatomically modern humanity traces back about 200,000 years to its origins in south central Africa, from which it spread out eastward across the continent from there before crossing out of Africa into the ANE some 150,000 years later. Geographically dense populations didn’t exist until after the invention of agriculture some 10,000 years ago, and even then were spread out across three separate flood plains, including Mesopotamia, the Nile, and the Indus valley civilizations. You don’t learn about this by studying astrophysics, and Ross would be well advised to look beyond astrophysics before he chooses to write about this again.

I’m far more impressed with scholars such as Ken Miller (a Catholic just by the way) who begin with the acknowledged science and then draw out their theology without first backing up 2500 years to put on the ill-fitting suit of a primitive and since rightly displaced cosmology. I recommend to you his book, Finding Darwin’s God.

As ever, Jesse
Gen 1 and 2 are complementary texts. The first is the order of Creation. The second is the importance of man.

There is much more in Genesis that meets the eye.

Genesis as Dialogue - I do not agree with everything thing in the book but it is fascinating. Give it a read.

Also take a look at The Toledoths of Genesis to see how we it came about.

"This article is all about the true structure of the Book of Genesis; a structure that is so simple and straightforward - as the reader is going to discover - that even a child would have no trouble understanding it in its basic form. The chief credit for having laid bare this structure in all its profound simplicity belongs to the British scholar, P. J. Wiseman(1), upon whose thesis the following article will be based. "

Miller is trying to force fit evolution into Catholic Theology. TE is an untenable position as atheists continually point out. His “junk DNA” has fallen by the wayside as we have found they have function. (he needs to rewrite his text book)
 
Jesse,

I’ll defer to Ross’ reasoning on the Creation event sequencing in Scripture vs. other religions’ holy books. He discusses the several he investigated (using his knowledge of astrophysics as a guide).

I have listened to a few of the Ross’ clips concerning biological evolution. I understood him to say that humanity has been on Earth for 60,000 years or more, but that Ross does not agree with Darwinian evolution.

Which, again. Answers to those questions must rely on supplied evidence. Darwin shows proof of horizontal evolution within the species, but little to no evidence of lateral evolution to tie all of the kingdoms together.

If I remember correctly, there’s also DNA mutation problems (which are explained in such technical language that I still don’t understand the range of those concerns).

Again, as I stated before, I’m open to the science and also to whichever belief system individual Christians are comfortable accepting.
 
Trying to use Genesis to argue anything about the age of the earth is futile. It is not what Genesis addresses. You cannot use it to argue either that the earth is 10,000 years old, or that it is billions of years old. If you try, then you are missing the point.
 
Genesis correctly sequences the creation of the Universe and the Earth.
 
According to Ross, an astrophysicist, it is.
I do not go to a theologian for information about the physical universe, neither should one go to an astrophysicist for exegesis. Lets have the astronomers stick with astronomy and theologians stick with theology.
 
I do not go to a theologian for information about the physical universe, neither should one go to an astrophysicist for exegesis. Lets have the astronomers stick with astronomy and theologians stick with theology.
Yet, if both are correct they will collaborate one another. If not, you must choose which to believe…
 
Ross is an astrophysicist and a Protestant minister (from aethism).

Through science, and because Sacred Scripture correctly sequenced the creation of the Universe and the Earth, Ross came to believe in the Trinity.

Ross has written many books on the intricate details of the creation event and how it was accurately described by God to Moses in Scripture.
 
Ross is an astrophysicist and a Protestant minister (from aethism).

Through science, and because Sacred Scripture correctly sequenced the creation of the Universe and the Earth, Ross came to believe in the Trinity.

Ross has written many books on the intricate details of the creation event and how it was accurately described by God to Moses in Scripture.
An astrophysicist AND a Protestant minister (and from the sound of it a Biblical fundamentalist). Oh yes that just SCREAMS of accurate exegesis. :rolleyes:
 
“An astrophysicist AND a Protestant minister (and from the sound of it a Biblical fundamentalist). Oh yes that just SCREAMS of accurate exegesis”

You sound like the Biblical fundamentalist.
 
“An astrophysicist AND a Protestant minister (and from the sound of it a Biblical fundamentalist). Oh yes that just SCREAMS of accurate exegesis”

You sound like the Biblical fundamentalist.
I absolutely reject the idea that the earth was formed in six 24-hour days. A biblical fundamentalist I am not. But I do take theology from a Protestant minister with a grain of salt.
 
Ross explains in scientific detail how the Creation event in Genesis correctly matches what cosmologists now know about the Universe and it’s creation.

He’s not rewriting the Bible, he’s explaining the Genesis account through earth science.
 
“I absolutely reject the idea that the earth was formed in six 24-hour days.”

Fine.

Some Christians are Old Earth, others are Young Earth.

Ross is Old Earth.
 
Genesis is not a chronological account
The Doctrines of Genesis 1-11

by Most Rev. Robert Francis Vasa
Bishop of Baker
Code:
			**The Doctrines of Genesis 1-11: *A Compendium and Defense of Traditional Catholic Theology on Origins***,  by Reverend Victor P. Warkulwiz, M.S.S., is a wonderfully researched  and thoroughly stimulating work. Father Warkulwiz, drawing on his very  substantial scientific background, walks us through the early chapters  of Genesis showing and giving testimony to the essential compatibility  between the literal account of Genesis, the understanding of the Fathers  of the Church and the modern day observations of natural science.
			 
			He very cogently points out that many of the accepted  scientific conclusions which contradict the days of creation and the  great flood are based on a variety of unproven premises which are  pillars set firmly on sand. Father very adeptly tackles the complex  issues of cosmogony, astronomy, astrophysics, mathematics, nuclear  science, evolutionary theory, geological uniformitarianism, radiocarbon  dating, big bang theory, and others to show that the observed phenomena  which they try to explain are just as readily, properly and easily  explained by such Genesis factors as direct creation by God and the  Genesis Flood. In doing so he opens a clear path for dedicated  Christians to read the Book of Genesis with a renewed and, to a certain  extent, unencumbered faith.
			 
			Saint Peter writing to the dispersed people says: "No one can  hurt you if you are determined to do only what is right; if you do have  to suffer for being good, you will count it a blessing. There is no need  to be afraid or to worry about them. Simply reverence the Lord Christ  in your hearts, and always have your answer ready for people who ask you  the reason for the hope that you all have' (1 Peter 3:13-15). Father  Warkulwiz provides ready answers for those who ask for the reasons which  underlie a deep Biblical faith, a faith which is too readily branded as  fundamental or naive.
			 
			The work is not, necessarily, easy reading but it is an  important work which needs to be studiously read, prayerfully considered  and kept on the shelf with Biblical commentaries for future reference.
			 
			*From the Back Cover*
About this Book
Today the Catholic Church has well-developed theologies of redemption and sanctification but no well-developed theology of creation. That is because so many of her influential thinkers have abandoned the sound creation theology of the Fathers and Doctors of the Church and have embraced instead the false principles of evolutionism. The purpose of this book is to help restore traditional Catholic theology on origins to its rightful place in the belief of Catholics. The traditional teaching of the Church on Creation, the Fall, and the Great Flood and its aftermath is clearly presented in the form of sixteen doctrines abstracted from the text of Genesis 1-11. The doctrines are defended on theological, philosophical and scientific grounds from assaults made on them from the sectors of biblical criticism and scientism. The author attempts to present a story of origins that evokes true and vivid images of the creation of the world and the primal history of the human species. Accurate, thorough and readable answers are given to many questions about origins that perplex the modern Catholic. The exposition is kept as non-technical as possible so that the book will be accessible to everyone. Not everyone will be able to understand everything that is presented, but every reader will find enough to set his thinking straight and to nourish his Catholic faith.
 
“But I do take theology from a Protestant minister with a grain of salt.”

Protestant faiths do extremely well bringing people to faith in God, even if from the Catholic perspective they work with limited Sacraments and a limited understanding of the Eucharist.
 
Nice diagram, but I will take the word of my Professors. The first chapter of Genesis is an account to show the orientation of creation towards Liturgy, and is not meant to reveal the “how” of creation.
Genesis has many layers to it.
 
zoominfo.com/search#search/profile/person?personId=33192410&targetid=profile

“Fr Warkulwiz is well qualified to write such a book. Not only is he a Catholic priest, but also he has a PhD in physics from Temple University and has worked in industry for a number of years. He has taught science, philosophy, history, astronomy, logic, chemistry, physics, mathematics and creationism versus evolution at Magdalen College in the U.K. He entered the priesthood late in life and received an M.Div. and M.A. in theology and was ordained in 1991. He is also theological reviewer for the Kolbe Center for the Study of Creation, 2 a Catholic young-earth creation organization.”
 
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