What is the appeal of Islam?

[hasantas]

Having studied Islam, Muhammad, the Qur’an, Hadiths, historicity, a certain amount about language {historic and current], the rationale and effects of taqyyia {‘holy deception’], and studied psychology at university; that the answer to why Islam holds sway in so many minds is multiplex.

I am firstly drawn to the passages in the Qur’an that are called the ‘Satanic Verses’, I am simultaneously minded of the Qur’anic surah, that claims the Jews as being deceptive, but that ‘Allah’ is the best/greatest of deceivers. These days many Islamic apologists claim that the passage speaks of ‘scheming/planning’, and not ‘deception’, but this is not so:
The Qur’an openly states many times that Allah is the ‘best deceiver’. The root word used in these verses is Makr which means deception.

Muhammad himself is claimed [in Islamic writings] to have said that war is [about] deception. That the world is for the present divided by and large into two areas, that of the dar al-Islam - the lands where Islam and the likes of Sharia hold sway - and the dar al-Harb - the lands of war, where Islam does not [as of yet] hold sway.

In Judeo-Christian tradition the attribute of ‘greatest/best deceiver’ goes to Satan - that God is Truth.

Most people hold that Islam is a religion, but a close study of the Islamic tracts points more towards it being mostly political in nature, and that the biggest part of the Qur’an refers to how Muslims should treat non-believers/kufrs {including the people of The Book - Jews and Christians], indeed in the latter part of Muhammad’s life such tracts have him railing at Jews and Christians in particular].

I have concluded that by and large it is tradition, ‘ignorance’, and fear of the consequences of being labelled as ‘apostate’ should they leave Islam, that keeps them ‘Muslim’. I also feel that many westerners who become Muslims are drawn to the façade of their moral code, while seeking something different to the ‘free licence’ so often practised in the secular modern world.

Islam have many inner gradations as moraly life but also Islam manage and design the material world. War is one of the fact of material world and Islam has some rules about war. Forexample if enemy is falled and crave for mercy then you cannot/must not kill him or persecute. In Hadiths it is mentioned that the war is artifice. So if you do not be awake then you can be routed easily. That is not about deceiving some one else but about the reality of war.

Like that there are some verses in which Allah stated that He deceive unbelievers. When unbelievers and evils plot to harm believers then God deceive them in their planing and God contreact. Indeed God means that He prevent evils especially when a prophet doing job. But that does not meant that God always prevent evils to be. That is for sake of exam. The world life is an exam to seperate the bad and good.

Islam allow Muslims to treat everybody. But Islam do not offer to be close friend with unbelievers and evils to prevent Muslims being effected by them in a bad manner.

If Islam had not got the reality then there would be many “apostates” and no one would could prevent that.

 

[Tomdstone]

It would be churlish and indeed problematic of me consider the consumption of alcohol as totally negative, since Jesus’ first recorded miracle at Cana involved a rather substantial amount of high class wine.

This is the Catholic teaching, which allows alcohol. The appeal of Islam is that it bans alcohol as statistics show that alcohol is associated with traffic fatalities, spousal violence, and many other crimes,.

 

[oldcatholicguy]

One thing that attracts people to Islam is that Islam bans alcohol, whereas Catholicism does not. Alcohol has been show to be at the root of many sins and many crimes. Yet, drinking alcoholic beverages is allowed in Christian and many other non-Islamic countries, as Catholicism and most Christian religions do not forbid the drinking of alcohol.
Alcohol would be banned under countries ruled by Islamic or sharia law.
“About 3 million violent crimes occur
each year in which victims perceive
the offender to have been drinking at
the time of the offense.”
“Two-thirds of victims who suffered
violence by an intimate (a current or
former spouse, boyfriend, or girlfriend)
reported that alcohol had been a
factor. Among spouse victims, 3 out
of 4 incidents were reported to have
involved an offender who had been
drinking.”
“In 1996 there were 17,126 alcohol related
traffic fatalities accounting for
40.9% of all traffic fatalities during the
year.”
bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/ac.pdf

Do you seriously think there isn’t any alcohol in Islamic countries or that Islamic societies don’t have issues with alcoholism?

 

[Tomdstone]

Do you seriously think there isn’t any alcohol in Islamic countries or that Islamic societies don’t have issues with alcoholism?

Go to Saudi Arabia and find out or ask someone who has been there. How many Muslim Imams have you heard of who have been treated at alcoholic rehabilitation centers. Contrast that with clergy of other denominations. Under Islamic sharia law, there are serious penalties for violating the law.
The question is what is the appeal of Islam?
Islam forbids the use of alcohol unlike many non-Muslim religions.

 

[Tomdstone]

Do you seriously think there isn’t any alcohol in Islamic countries or that Islamic societies don’t have issues with alcoholism?

I don’t think that you would find a thread in Islamic blogs discussing the topic about - which alcoholic beverages are your favorites?
But you do find such things on non-Muslim sites:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=951367
People who recognize the evils of alcohol and the fact that drinking alcohol never accomplished anything positive might be attracted to Islam which bans its use.

 

[Kaninchen]

I don’t think that you would find a thread in Islamic blogs discussing the topic about - which alcoholic beverages are your favorites?
But you do find such things on non-Muslim sites:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=951367
People who recognize the evils of alcohol and the fact that drinking alcohol never accomplished anything positive might be attracted to Islam which bans its use.

Walking around all day in a black tent still seems like a high price to pay.

 

[hasantas]

Well if the nature or God is an astonishment and indeed in some respects a mystery to the Angels, then what chance have we mere morals this side of the grave to fully know the workings and how of God?

As for the plurality of ‘persons’ in God, well the first reference in Hebrew uses the plural form - The Hebrew word translated “God” is the word El or Elohim. Elohim is the plural form of El. The plural form is used 2607 of the 2845 times the word “God” is used in the Old Testament. Not only is the word for God usually used in the plural form, but several verses refer to God as “Us”

There are plural statements in Koran too. Sometimes God do not say “I” but say “we”. Here some examples:

1. Nor can a soul die except by Allah’s leave, the term being fixed as by writing. If any do desire a reward in this life, We shall give it to him; and if any do desire a reward in the Hereafter, We shall give it to him. And swiftly shall We reward those that (serve us with) gratitude. (Sura Al-Imran)
2. We have indeed created man in the best of moulds, (Sura At-Tin)
3. We created the heavens and the earth and all between them in Six Days, nor did any sense of weariness touch Us. (Sura Qaf)

In verses like above God do not mean that there are more than one God because God frequently mention that God is unique. Islamic scholars state that verses in some way:

a) God use “I” for His High Holy personality and use “we” for His attributes.
b) God use “we” to witness angels for His actions.
c) God use “we” for majesty of Himself. Many people use “we” instead of “I” for esteem and respect.
d) If there are intermediary through action of God then God use “we”". Forexample revelation is being sent by Gabriel(angel). So God use we:
9. We have, without doubt, sent down the Message; and We will assuredly guard it (from corruption). (Al-Hijr)

So in previous scriptures there might be some plurality statements for God but that actually do not meant that there are plural gods.

 

[oldcatholicguy]

Go to Saudi Arabia and find out or ask someone who has been there. How many Muslim Imams have you heard of who have been treated at alcoholic rehabilitation centers. Contrast that with clergy of other denominations. Under Islamic sharia law, there are serious penalties for violating the law.
The question is what is the appeal of Islam?
Islam forbids the use of alcohol unlike many non-Muslim religions.

-So clergy being treated at alcoholic rehabilitation centers is the metric by which to measure the linkage between a faith’s position on alcohol usage and alcoholism? Ok, so prior to the invention of alcoholic rehabilitation centers alcoholism didn’t exist?
-Also, you don’t think that maybe the severe punishment under SA law and the SA religious police being “up in everyone’s business” might, just might, result in Muslims in SA not actually seeking treatment for alcoholism because doing so would force them to admit to a rather “in your face” religious police and government that they are breaking not only secular law, but religious law?
-From my own personal experience in Iraq, which under Saddam didn’t have such an oppressive “in your face” religious police force when it came to making sure Muslims were “good Muslims”, alcoholism and the ready access to alcohol isn’t unknown in Islamic cultures or societies. What it is is kept behind closed doors with most people turning a blind eye to it.

 

[7_Sorrows]

There are plural statements in Koran too. Sometimes God do not say “I” but say “we”. Here some examples:

1. Nor can a soul die except by Allah’s leave, the term being fixed as by writing. If any do desire a reward in this life, We shall give it to him; and if any do desire a reward in the Hereafter, We shall give it to him. And swiftly shall We reward those that (serve us with) gratitude. (Sura Al-Imran)
2. We have indeed created man in the best of moulds, (Sura At-Tin)
3. We created the heavens and the earth and all between them in Six Days, nor did any sense of weariness touch Us. (Sura Qaf)

In verses like above God do not mean that there are more than one God because God frequently mention that God is unique. Islamic scholars state that verses in some way:

a) God use “I” for His High Holy personality and use “we” for His attributes.
b) God use “we” to witness angels for His actions.
c) God use “we” for majesty of Himself. Many people use “we” instead of “I” for esteem and respect.
d) If there are intermediary through action of God then God use “we”". Forexample revelation is being sent by Gabriel(angel). So God use we:
9. We have, without doubt, sent down the Message; and We will assuredly guard it (from corruption). (Al-Hijr)

So in previous scriptures there might be some plurality statements for God but that actually do not meant that there are plural gods.

Thank you for your post. Very informative.

 

[Tomdstone]

-So clergy being treated at alcoholic rehabilitation centers is the metric by which to measure the linkage between a faith’s position on alcohol usage and alcoholism? Ok, so prior to the invention of alcoholic rehabilitation centers alcoholism didn’t exist?
-Also, you don’t think that maybe the severe punishment under SA law and the SA religious police being “up in everyone’s business” might, just might, result in Muslims in SA not actually seeking treatment for alcoholism because doing so would force them to admit to a rather “in your face” religious police and government that they are breaking not only secular law, but religious law?
-From my own personal experience in Iraq, which under Saddam didn’t have such an oppressive “in your face” religious police force when it came to making sure Muslims were “good Muslims”, alcoholism and the ready access to alcohol isn’t unknown in Islamic cultures or societies. What it is is kept behind closed doors with most people turning a blind eye to it.

That’s because they have not been successful in establishing sharia law in many countries which have a Muslim majority. Many people believe that the use of alcohol accomplishes nothing positive. Others will want to lead discussions on which alcoholic beverage is your favorite. The appeal of Islam is that it teaches that alcohol should be forbidden as the imams recognize the dangers of alcohol and how it has harmed so many families.

 

[oldcatholicguy]

That’s because they have not been successful in establishing sharia law in many countries which have a Muslim majority. Many people believe that the use of alcohol accomplishes nothing positive. Others will want to lead discussions on which alcoholic beverage is your favorite. The appeal of Islam is that it teaches that alcohol should be forbidden as the imams recognize the dangers of alcohol and how it has harmed so many families.

Which all very nice, but it doesn’t actually address my points about your rather flawed usage of SA and the lack of alcohol treatment centers. Perhaps you can now address my points?

 

[Tomdstone]

Having to walk around in a black tent all day seems rather a high price to pay for avoiding drunks.

Not if you are the battered wife in a bikini who is being regularly beaten by your drunken husband. How many non-Muslim women have been taken to the emergency room with life threatening injuries inflicted on them by their drunken husbands under the influence of alcohol?

 

[hasantas]

To me, Islam seems like a very simplistic, easy to follow religion. Simply follow the 5 pillars, say your prayers, and know the Koran. There is no bureaucracy or magisterium, unlike the Catholic Church. I’m pretty sure that there’s no priesthood, either.

If you mean with “simplistic” for Islam to be understood easily that may be true. But that never mean that Islam has no deep inner moraly values.

There have been millions Avliya who are very high in morality. Some of Avliya can see angels. Some can see Heavens and Hell with moral discovery. Some can be seen in many places at the same time. Some can understand what people will ask them… There are many examples and all Muslims know that.

Muslims have Koran which is directly is speech of Allah. If some regard Koran then he can see that Koran cannot be words of Muhammed. You can never see a statements in Koran which imply that Muhammed had said it by Himself. Because if some one speak instead of God then he will betray himself at once. Muhammed cannot read or write. He never had got education. To learn the main princples of a religion you must spend many years. But Muhammed suddenly did that and He never took from His connection. People around Him knew Muhammed very well. Muhammed cannot learn something different while others cannot do. Muslims can see the fact very obviously so they have not so doubts in their faith.

With enlightenment by Koran and prophet Muhammed Muslims can see the facts in Christianity and Judaism too. Islam do not reject others to support itself. Ofcourse Islam inform that others have some wrongs but that is not rejection.

If some would live through a general community of Muslims then He could see many facts in Islam. But from remoteness a mountain appear like a stone.

 

[Darryl_B]

Not if you are the battered wife in a bikini who is being regularly beaten by your drunken husband. How many non-Muslim women have been taken to the emergency room with life threatening injuries inflicted on them by their drunken husbands under the influence of alcohol?

What is the appeal of Islam? That is the question. The question is not how Puritan are you?

Alcohol is not the problem, people are, and people can be lost.

 

[Tomdstone]

What is the appeal of Islam? That is the question. The question is not how Puritan are you?

Alcohol is not the problem, people are, and people can be lost.

One appealing feature of Islam is that it bans alcohol.

 

[Thorolfr]

One appealing feature of Islam is that it bans alcohol.

But some of us like to have a glass of wine or a beer now and then, so maybe it’s not such an appealing feature.

 

[Tomdstone]

Alcohol, like many things in life, is only legitimate if taken in moderation and appropriate circumstance.

That is the problem. You claim that the moderate use of alcohol is legitimate. But what is your definition of moderate use? Would it be one glass of vodka, or two, or three or four or what? Some people have a problem knowing what moderate use is. They will claim that they drank moderately, while their wife who has been beaten up, or the child who has been hit by a drunk driver, lying in the hospital with life threatening injuries will say that the driver was not drinking moderately. Moderately is a vague concept which lends itself to being stretched way out of proportion.
Under Islamic law, alcohol is banned, and that solves the problem we are seeing in the west of drunken drivers running over innocent children or of driving over bridges in Chappaquidick with the terrible result of harming innocent people. Families have been destroyed by alcohol.
Terrible crimes have been committed by people under the influence of alcohol.
The appeal of Islam is that it teaches that people should not drink alcohol. Alcohol is banned under sharia law.

 

[MartinJordan]

Alcohol, like many things in life, is only legitimate if taken in moderation and appropriate circumstance.

It would be churlish and indeed problematic of me consider the consumption of alcohol as totally negative, since Jesus’ first recorded miracle at Cana involved a rather substantial amount of high class wine.

Smoking is allowed in Islam. Apparently that’s not life threatening like alcohol. Now that’s appealing.

MJ

 

[7_Sorrows]

If you mean with “simplistic” for Islam to be understood easily that may be true. But that never mean that Islam has no deep inner moraly values.

There have been millions Avliya who are very high in morality. Some of Avliya can see angels. Some can see Heavens and Hell with moral discovery. Some can be seen in many places at the same time. Some can understand what people will ask them… There are many examples and all Muslims know that.

Muslims have Koran which is directly is speech of Allah. If some regard Koran then he can see that Koran cannot be words of Muhammed. You can never see a statements in Koran which imply that Muhammed had said it by Himself. Because if some one speak instead of God then he will betray himself at once. Muhammed cannot read or write. He never had got education. To learn the main princples of a religion you must spend many years. But Muhammed suddenly did that and He never took from His connection. People around Him knew Muhammed very well. Muhammed cannot learn something different while others cannot do. Muslims can see the fact very obviously so they have not so doubts in their faith.

With enlightenment by Koran and prophet Muhammed Muslims can see the facts in Christianity and Judaism too. Islam do not reject others to support itself. Ofcourse Islam inform that others have some wrongs but that is not rejection.

If some would live through a general community of Muslims then He could see many facts in Islam. But from remoteness a mountain appear like a stone.

But if there is no rejection of Judaism and Christianity, why are they called infidels? Why are they not allowed to practice their religions in Muslim countries?

 

[oldcatholicguy]

If you mean with “simplistic” for Islam to be understood easily that may be true. But that never mean that Islam has no deep inner moraly values.

There have been millions Avliya who are very high in morality. Some of Avliya can see angels. Some can see Heavens and Hell with moral discovery. Some can be seen in many places at the same time. Some can understand what people will ask them… There are many examples and all Muslims know that.

Muslims have Koran which is directly is speech of Allah. If some regard Koran then he can see that Koran cannot be words of Muhammed. You can never see a statements in Koran which imply that Muhammed had said it by Himself. Because if some one speak instead of God then he will betray himself at once. Muhammed cannot read or write. He never had got education. To learn the main princples of a religion you must spend many years. But Muhammed suddenly did that and He never took from His connection. People around Him knew Muhammed very well. Muhammed cannot learn something different while others cannot do. Muslims can see the fact very obviously so they have not so doubts in their faith.

With enlightenment by Koran and prophet Muhammed Muslims can see the facts in Christianity and Judaism too. Islam do not reject others to support itself. Ofcourse Islam inform that others have some wrongs but that is not rejection.

If some would live through a general community of Muslims then He could see many facts in Islam. But from remoteness a mountain appear like a stone.

Are all Muslims literate in Arabic?