What is the Beatific Vision?

[TrueLight]

I have heard the term “beatific vision” used many times on this forum.

What is the beatific vision?
Did the Saints of the New Testament see the beatific vision upon death??
Has Satan seen the beatific vision?
Do the angels see the beatific vision?
For those who die and go to heaven, do they see the beatific vision?
What are the references for the beatific vision?

Thanks.

 

[Little_One0307]

Hi,

The beautific vision is seeing God as he is, the Trinity.

I am pulling this from the Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma.

The blessed in heaven possess an immediate intuitive knowledge of the Divine Essence - De fide

They, the blessed in heaven which includes the saints and the Angels, see the divine essence by an untuitive vision and face to face so that the divine essence is known immediately, showing itself nakedly clearly and openly, and not mediately through any creature.

The most apposite passage in Holy Writ is 1 Cor. 13, 12 in which the Apostle contains the mirror-like, enigmatical and pecemeal knowledge of God in this world with the immediate and clear knowledge of God in the other world: “We see now through a glass in a dark manner: but then face to face. Now I know in part : but then I shall know even as I am known.” St. John describes the future state which is prepared for the children of God on earth with the words: “We shall be like to Him: becuase we shall see Him as He is”

The older Fathers using the simple words of Holy Sciprutre, teach that the angels and saints are couchsafed a real vision of God, and hbehold HIm face to face.

Object of the Immediate Vision of God

1. The primary ovject of the immediate vision of God is the Infinite Divine Essence in its Triune fullness of personal life. [wow that is cool].

The next De Fide dogma states this.

“The soul for the Immediate Vision of God, requires the light of glory.”

K In the Council of Vienne 1311-1312 The following was declared to be an error.

That any intellectual nature in its own self is naturally blessed, and that the soul does not need the light of glory raising it so see God and to enjoy Him beautifically.

I say this becuase of your question asking whether Satan saw the Beautific Vision. I only submit is as a consideration, as I believe that the answer cannot be known.

Hope this helps.

Little One0307

 

[I_love_rocks]

There was one saint that I’m certain of who saw the beautific vision - it was St. Lucia in the last vision of Fatima, but there have been others. And Fatima was in 1911? 1914? I think…- can’t remember without looking it up. The great theologians, St. Thomas Aquinas, St.Augustine… both explained it much better than I could, and that was long before Fatima - in Medieval times.
I see in the beautiful art you posted with your question that it is a vision of Christ Jesus crucified, but there is more to it. The beautific vision is God the Father, Christ crucified, and the Holy Spirit. When our souls will gaze upon this vision in heaven it will fill us with indescribable and eternal joy.
I do not know if the evil one has seen it. I would hazard a guess that he has not.
I believe I’ve been taught that though our angels are with us thoroughout life, they always have sight of God at all times. I believe this may be the beautific vision… I’m not sure but I can’t wait to find out!
Some saints have reportedly seen the beautific vision at the hour of their death. I couldn’t say which off hand. Others will respond, I’m sure who are far and surpassingly more knowledgeable than me.
And the only other part I can’t answer because I don’t understand the question is - what are the references. I’m not sure what type of referenes you mean…

 

[JimG]

From a perspective of philosophical psychology, human beings never know things directly. That is, we cannot get any external object directly into our minds. We know rather by means of ideas, whereby the accidentals of an object are disregarded, and the mind forms an immaterial idea of the essence of the object.

So we know by means of abstracting the accidents of an object and forming an immaterial idea, which represents, (but is not in itself) the essence of the object known.

In the Beatific Vision, we are given the power to know God, not through forming even a perfect idea of him, but rather by having his essence in direct contact with our intellect and will.

This is only possible through divine grace. Without grace, direct contact with the divine essence would overwhelm our own nature.

 

[Joe_5859]

In a nutshell, the Beatific Vision is simply the theological term for seeing God “face to face” (as St. Paul says in 1 Corinthians 13:12) in Heaven.

The Old Catholic Encyclopedia describes it fairly succinctly:

Beatific Vision

The immediate knowledge of God which the angelic spirits and the souls of the just enjoy in Heaven. It is called “vision” to distinguish it from the mediate knowledge of God which the human mind may attain in the present life. And since in beholding God face to face the created intelligence finds perfect happiness, the vision is termed “beatific”. For further explanation of the subject, see HEAVEN.

 

[Lancer]

First…see the Catechism…Heaven 1023-1029. Below 1027 &1028 review.

1027 This mystery of blessed communion with God and all who are in Christ is beyond all understanding and description. Scripture speaks of it in images: life, light, peace, wedding feast, wine of the kingdom, the Father’s house, the heavenly Jerusalem, paradise: "no eye has seen, nor ear heard, nor the heart of man conceived, what God has prepared for those who love him."603

1028 Because of his transcendence, God cannot be seen as he is, unless he himself opens up his mystery to man’s immediate contemplation and gives him the capacity for it. The **Church calls this contemplation of God in his heavenly glory “the beatific vision”: **

How great will your glory and happiness be, to be allowed to see God, to be honored with sharing the joy of salvation and eternal light with Christ your Lord and God, . . . to delight in the joy of immortality in the Kingdom of heaven with the righteous and God’s friends.604

​

Lastly, we do not know if any person this side of eternity…who has seen the Beatific Vision…no Church validation of this happening. I doubt it will ever happen… to anyone in his/her life regardless of how holy/saintly he/she might be…it just seems like a metaphysical non-starter for God to do that…could if he wanted to…but I just doubt that He would ever do it.

Pax Christi

 

[JDaniel]

I have heard the term “beatific vision” used many times on this forum.

What is the beatific vision?
Did the Saints of the New Testament see the beatific vision upon death??
Has Satan seen the beatific vision?
Do the angels see the beatific vision?
For those who die and go to heaven, do they see the beatific vision?
What are the references for the beatific vision?

Thanks.

Welcome TrueLight:

From what I have gleaned from The Teaching of the Catholic Church,Vols. I & II, the Beatific Vision is that “object” of sight and thought that is so profoundly beautiful that its perception suffices, for the subject, for the rest of eternity. Nothing else is needed to be seen or contemplated. Theologians think that there are three (at least) levels of Heavens: the top-most level is the Vision level, wherein God resides and shows Himself to those chosen for, and capable of, seeing Him face to face, so to speak. The next level down is referred to as the Angelic level, or, the level of the angels. This is where the angels reside, primarily, unless called by God to the top level. The third level down is called the earthly level. That’s where we are. Angels can roam between the second and third levels, but do not roam into the first level unless ready to view God and are called, i.e., willed, to it.

From what I understand, Saints are immediately called to the 1st level.

Satan has not seen the Beatific Vision. Seeing himself as all that was necessary for his Eternity is precisely what put him in Hell.

Some angels do, some do not. An angel must be not only called to “see” God, but also, must be ready to View Him.

Some do, some don’t. Certainly Saints do. In order to go to the 1st level, one must be completely pure, i.e., without any blemish of sin, without any blemish of pridefulness, without any absence of unrestrained love, without any restraint of one’s will prior to being called, to “see” God, without any preference for another interest.

In the absence of some of these, there is Purgatory. That is where the impure are purified. That is where blemishes are completely repaired.

It is my belief, which may not be completely right, that because of our earthly trials and travails, upon attaining a purified state, and brought to the Father by His Son, humans are called to the Vision.

Some references are: I Cor., xiii, 2-5, I John, iii, 2, John, xvii, 24, Matt., xviii, 10, and Apoc., xxii, 2-5., The Teaching of the Catholic Church, Ch. XXXV, among others.

God bless,
jd

 

[levinas12]

Some angels do, some do not. An angel must be not only called to “see” God, but also, must be ready to View Him.

Certainly Saints do.

JD,

What do you think of the following argument? Because the Second Person of the Trinity assumed human nature, we humans have access to the inner Life of the Trinity. But angels do not because the Second Person did not assume an angelic nature (there was no reason for Him to do so).

This is the Holy Exchange reiterated everyday in the offertory of the Mass (God became man so we could “share in divinity”).

We will not become God (in the sense of assuming divine nature) but, with Christ, we will be taken up into the Trinity itself.

Angels do not have this privilege. Some have argued this was why Satan rebelled.

 

[levinas12]

In the Beatific Vision, we are given the power to know God, not through forming even a perfect idea of him, but rather by having his essence in direct contact with our intellect and will.

This is only possible through divine grace. Without grace, direct contact with the divine essence would overwhelm our own nature.

What do you think of the following argument? Because the Second Person of the Trinity assumed human nature, we humans have the privilege of entering “inside” the Trinity itself. Because the Second Person did not assume an angelic nature (there was no reason to do this), angels cannot enter “inside” the Trinity although they can still see God.

This teaching is reiterated everyday in the offertory of the Mass. God became man so that man can “share in divinity”. This does not mean that we humans assume divine nature - but, nonethless, in some way, we are taken up into the Trinity itself.

The angels don’t have this privilege. Some have argued this was why Satan rebelled.

 

[Little_One0307]

What do you think of the following argument? Because the Second Person of the Trinity assumed human nature, we humans have the privilege of entering “inside” the Trinity itself. Because the Second Person did not assume an angelic nature (there was no reason to do this), angels cannot enter “inside” the Trinity although they can still see God.

This teaching is reiterated everyday in the offertory of the Mass. God became man so that man can “share in divinity”. This does not mean that we humans assume divine nature - but, nonethless, in some way, we are taken up into the Trinity itself.

The angels don’t have this privilege. Some have argued this was why Satan rebelled.

Hmmm. I am not sure if you can reach the conclusion you posit, but it does make for an interesting point to consider. The angels that are confirmed in grace are taken up into the Trinity without assuming divine nature. They stand in the presence of God. They are in union with God and His Will. Some in some sense they are one with God.

What do you think of this? I may have been grappling here.

Little One0307

 

[MindOverMatter2]

From a perspective of philosophical psychology, human beings never know things directly. That is, we cannot get any external object directly into our minds. We know rather by means of** ideas**

Ideas? Surely we perceive the essence of the object before we form an idea of it. Do we need an idea of essences before we can known them? If so then where do we get the ideas from in the first place?

Its seems to me, that in-order for us to have a rational bases for the existence of ideas, we must first form our ideas out of the “knowledge” (experiential knowledge) that we already have. knowledge begins with perception, not ideas. Knowledge begins with information, not abstractions. Also I don’t see how we could have a finite “idea” of the beatific vision. We would have to perceive it directly, because there is no idea that can contain the experience.

 

[JimG]

Ideas? Surely we perceive the essence of the object before we form an idea of it. Do we need an idea of essences before we can known them? If so then where do we get the ideas from in the first place?

Its seems to me, that in-order for us to have a rational bases for the existence of ideas, we must first form our ideas out of the “knowledge” (experiential knowledge) that we already have. knowledge begins with perception, not ideas. Knowledge begins with information, not abstractions. Also I don’t see how we could have a finite “idea” of the beatific vision. We would have to perceive it directly, because there is no idea that can contain the experience.

It’s an old Thomistic axiom that all knowledge begins in the senses, and I agree with that. We begin with sensory (name removed by moderator)ut. Sensory (name removed by moderator)ut is integrated in the brain. Of course, it is at that point already one or two steps removed from “outside reality.” We don’t really get outside reality into our brain, only the sensory (name removed by moderator)ut from our senses, which is in part dependent on the physical range of our sense perceptions.

But as a non-materialist who considers the mind primarily spirit not matter, I go a step beyond that.

Sense perception, even as integrated in the brain, remains material, individual, and specific. Our intellect abstracts from that individuality to the general. That is, I recognize not just “this” cat, but the general idea of cat. That process of abstraction is what I mean by ideas produced by the mind. It’s how we know most things. I can’t get the actual essence of a particular cat into my mind because that would leave the actual cat dead and without its essence.

Theologians speculate that the angelic nature obtains knowledge through direct intuition rather than sensory (name removed by moderator)ut and abstraction. And yes, that is how we will ultimately know God. But to do it that way without divine help would explode our minds.

 

[levinas12]

Hmmm. I am not sure if you can reach the conclusion you posit, but it does make for an interesting point to consider. The angels that are confirmed in grace are taken up into the Trinity without assuming divine nature. They stand in the presence of God. They are in union with God and His Will. Some in some sense they are one with God.

What do you think of this? I may have been grappling here.

Little One0307

I’m not sure. The good angels do behold God.

But Mary, the human being, is Queen of Heaven which would suggest that she is “higher” than the angels.

And we, as the sons and daughters of the Lord, can call the First Person of the Trinity “Father”. I don’t know if the angels can do that.

We humans can do it only because we are “in” Jesus - as said in the final doxology in the Mass (“through”, “with” and “in”) - with the sequence of the prepositions intensifying the unity we have with the Son.

Only because the Son has access to the Father, can we, in the Son, have access.

I don’t know if the angels are “in” Jesus the way we are; and I don’t know whether they have the same access to the Father.

 

[Little_One0307]

I’m not sure. The good angels do behold God.

But Mary, the human being, is Queen of Heaven which would suggest that she is “higher” than the angels.

And we, as the sons and daughters of the Lord, can call the First Person of the Trinity “Father”. I don’t know if the angels can do that.

We humans can do it only because we are “in” Jesus - as said in the final doxology in the Mass (“through”, “with” and “in”) - with the sequence of the prepositions intensifying the unity we have with the Son.

Only because the Son has access to the Father, can we, in the Son, have access.

I don’t know if the angels are “in” Jesus the way we are; and I don’t know whether they have the same access to the Father.

Hi,

Hmmm maybe the angels can call God the Father as He did create them out of nothing like he did us. God is a Father to all he created I suppose in that sense.

And Mary is higher than the angels. That we can know from dogma as well I believe. I am too lazy to go and see if it is in there, which I am sure it is. But if you want me to go and look for it I will edit this post and post the dogma.

I am going to go and read some up on the Summa about the angels and see if I can find some stuff in there to shed some light on this conversation. It is a most interesting topic to me.

I shall do some research on this before going to bed tonight and post something on it if I find anything tomorrow. Have a great night.

Little One0307

 

[levinas12]

Hi,

Hmmm maybe the angels can call God the Father as He did create them out of nothing like he did us. God is a Father to all he created I suppose in that sense.

Little One0307

Our calling God “Father” goes beyond His status as Creator. We can use “Father” because the Son uses “Father”. We are also sons and daughters, but adopted. Because we are “in” the Son. This goes beyond a creature-Creator relationship.

The angels cannot use “Father” in this sense.

 

[Little_One0307]

Our calling God “Father” goes beyond His status as Creator. We can use “Father” because the Son uses “Father”. We are also sons and daughters, but adopted. Because we are “in” the Son. This goes beyond a creature-Creator relationship.

The angels cannot use “Father” in this sense.

Ahhh. I should have fleshed out my meaning. Yes I know the angels cannot use Father in the sense of adoption. Thanks for doing it for me. :thumbsup:

Little One0307

 

[levinas12]

Ahhh. I should have fleshed out my meaning. Yes I know the angels cannot use Father in the sense of adoption. Thanks for doing it for me. :thumbsup:

Little One0307

There’s an interesting article which addresses the issue of “sharing in divinity”:

people.bethel.edu/~rakrob/files/THEOSIS2.html

This article may have some rough spots (it is not done from the Roman Catholic perspective) - but especially its discussion of Orthodox theology raises some good points.

Let me know what you think of it.

 

[jenny05037]

I’m nobody and I am less than nothing; in November 2010 I was praying I was given a vision by God. And I think it may be called Beatific Vision.

 

[zro_x]

I have heard the term “beatific vision” used many times on this forum.

What is the beatific vision?

As I understand it, the beatific vision occurs after we die and are allowed into heaven. It is the source of eternal Joy we have there.

I have to say, I’m a little skeptical of the people on this thread who claim that they may have experienced the batific vision, or that saints have experienced it. As long as we remain on Earth, we are still actively choosing whether or not to serve and love God, and this test doesn’t end until death. In Exodus, Moses apperently sees the back of God. I don’t know what the official interpretation is, but I interpret this as a watered down beatific vision. After this, Moses had to go around wearing a veil. I think god actually says somewhere, “No one can see the face of God and live.”

Did the Saints of the New Testament see the beatific vision upon death??

possibly, though it is difficult to say. I personally think they didn’t, and probably still don’t. It will prabably wait until after we are reunited with our bodies during the end of the world.

Has Satan seen the beatific vision?
Do the angels see the beatific vision?

Remember that while God is timeless, the angels and heavenly saints still exist in time. At some point in the distant past, All the angels, Satan included, were allowed to accept or reject God. Those that accepted him now see the beatific vision, and those that rejected him never have.

 

[zro_x]

And Mary is higher than the angels. That we can know from dogma as well I believe. I am too lazy to go and see if it is in there, which I am sure it is. But if you want me to go and look for it I will edit this post and post the dogma.

ummm, I’m pretty sure that can’t be true. As great as Mary is, she’s still just a human. There is a heiarchy of cration. first you have the unliving things, then living things in order of complexity and sophistication (from microorganisms to chimpanzees), then humans, then angels (also in order of sophistication), then archangels, and finally lucifer. C.S Lewis points out that the higher up on the scale, the more good and evil one is capable of. So, it stands to reason that the angels in heaven are higher than Mary. Perhaps a more accurate title for her is queen of all humans in heaven.