What is the best approach when someone mentions "bad things" done by the Catholic Church?

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For example, the Inquisition. When I pressed someone on the actual facts of the Inquisition, he ended up responding to the effect of “it sounds like you are just trying to give excuses.”

So it seems, sometimes, actual facts aren’t that helpful because they’re too specific and don’t seem to address the person’s real accusation (e.g., in general, “the Catholic Church has done evil things”).

What is the most effective way to address alleged or actual evil acts done by the Catholic Church?

As a Catholic believer, I know how to distinguish between evil done by the institution vs. the actual existence of the Catholic Church itself, as Christ’s body made up of imperfect members. But how do you talk to someone who only sees the Church as an institution, but not also as a sacred sacrament?
 
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RealisticCatholic said:
For example, the Inquisition.
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Well the best approach is to know something about those things that people often say are “bad things” done by the Catholic Church. I’ve seen so many people try to defend things that never even happened, or that someone never even said.

The second thing you can do is ask for specificity. Often people parrot things they’ve heard. They don’t have good knowledge. So, what specifically was “bad” and who did what, and drill down into the facts.
RealisticCatholic said:
it sounds like you are just trying to give excuses.”
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My response would be, “No, I"m trying to understand your position.”
RealisticCatholic said:
So it seems, sometimes, actual facts aren’t that helpful
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Actual facts aren’t helpful when the person you are talking to doesn’t want to actually listen or learn. In those cases, Jesus had an answer: shake the dust off your sandals.
RealisticCatholic said:
But how do you talk to someone who only sees the Church as an institution
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Well, you might not be able to.
 
As you’ve alluded to, a good strategy is parsing out who in the Church has done bad things.

I notice when people say they were hurt by “the Church” or “the Church” did bad things, they are usually talking about an individual or small group. For example, a particular bishop or priest or parish, or the parish secretary. Just because people in the Church have done bad things doesn’t make the Church less holy.

And it is quite right to point out the actual facts of events like the Inquisition. That’s not an excuse, that’s how things actually happened. It’s not fair to misrepresent a historical event and then call the Church evil because of it.
 
Well, you might not be able to.
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Thanks, good advice. But as for this one, regarding the Church as an institution, I still want to be able to find a way to say that institutions do bad things because people are imperfect can be bad. But somehow when it comes to the Church, people conflate that to meaning the institution itself is evil or prone to evil.

Trying to untangle that takes a mixed effort, like you said. Facts are important, but so are other things like why the person is even going after the Church, in the first place.
 
BTW, I don’t want this thread to be about the Inquisition.

BUT. I do have this question: Why, in the first place, is it something that is always one people’s minds when it comes to the Catholic Church? Out of all the 20 centuries of Catholic history, why does this stand out? Is there a reason it has received so much emphasis?
 
Perhaps Monty Python made the Inquisition well known to the public? 😀

Seriously, I think it stands out because people like to think of the Church as a big, authoritarian, oppressive body, and the Inquisition fits the narrative.

If someone wanted to talk to me about bad things (any bad things) done, or alleged to be done, by the Catholic Church, I would first determine if they were talking about real things the Church did/ was involved in, such as the Inquisition or the clergy sex abuse scandal, or if they were talking about complete myths such as Catholics sacrificing children at the order of the Pope. Obviously if a person is focused on some crazy thing they think or were taught that the Church did, then my best strategy is to ask them to provide me with a reliable source, when they can’t do it I tell them it didn’t happen and get away from them as graciously as I can.

If, on the other hand, we establish the person is referring to real events and is asking in relatively good faith, I would say that humans sin, the Church is made up of humans, some of them have made mistakes or even grievously sinned, we have learned from these situations, and doing our best to avoid such bad practices now. I would further ask if they are aware of or pay attention to any of the good things done by the Church or are they focused only on the bad things. If they are not having a balanced view then I would end the discussion and tell them we will resume after they learn a bit more about good things the Church has done over the centuries, which are many.
 
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RealisticCatholic said:
BUT. I do have this question: Why, in the first place, is it something that is always one people’s minds when it comes to the Catholic Church? Out of all the 20 centuries of Catholic history, why does this stand out? Is there a reason it has received so much emphasis?
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It stands out due to centuries of anti-Catholicism, mainly fueled by Protestants. The early Protestants looked for things in the Church to criticize, and the Inquisition was something that stood out. While in some ways a dark time in Catholic history, there are a lot of misconceptions about the Inquisition and it’s a much more complicated issue than people realize. It doesn’t help that Protestants have wildly over exaggerated the events of the Inquisition, making things much worse and making it much more difficult to separate truth from fiction.
 
Admit to it and repent. Trying to gloss over it or make excuses for sin is always the wrong move to be made by the Church. Say, we sinned, we broke God’s command, and we suffered because of it (loss of faith of those whom we persecuted as well as those within the Church who were troubled by what we did). Then point to the cross. Our unfaithfulness though doesn’t change the message of Christ, which is that he died for our sin, he reconciles all sinners to God just as he does you (referring to your audience), and that he calls us to repentance and obedience through the power of the Holy Spirit. The same can be said about the clerical abuse controversies today.
 
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Answer to original post:

Mention something that a King of Israel or one of his officers did that was bad.

Ex: Moses murdered; King David murdered to cover up an adulterous relationship and to save his own life from stoning
 
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I will have to re-check the facts here, but I recently read that Protestant England in a single year put to death more people for general crimes than the Spanish Inquisition did over its many years.
 
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I was replying to a post talking about history of anti-Catholic Protestantism.

So in that context, it’s worth pointing it out. It’s not as if Catholicism is unique, is the point.
 
I’m not sure what this is in reference to re: this thread. Can you clarify?
 
You have spoken the truth. For those whose minds are closed, nothing will suffice, other than prayer and deference to the Holy Spirit. This person has shown that they are not seeking reasons for belief, but reasons to disbelieve.

Ask him to name a human institution which has not, sooner or later, done evil. Then ask him about the faith and moral teachings of the Church. I am betting that you get a blank stare.
 
goout said:
Doctors murder people and go to work drunk, and abuse drugs, and cheat on their wives. Ask your friend if he has abandoned medicine.
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Our US Presidents have done all sorts of rot. Two were impeached, one was forced to resign, one died mysteriously in the midst of major scandals. Let’s not even talk about all the rot legislators have done. While we’re at it, some Supreme Court Justices in the past were forced to resign as well. Perhaps we should get rid of the inherently evil Government of the United States.
 
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Tis_Bearself said:
It really doesn’t matter if they killed 10,000 and we killed 10.
Killing anybody is bad.
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I agree that killing anyone is bad, but I also think it’s important to have the facts straight. It seems rare that anyone has their facts right when talking about the Inquisition.
 
The problem with fact-based arguments in this context is that most people who want to talk “inquisition” (or “sex abuse scandal” or any other awful thing) are coming at it from a very emotional perspective. Trying to argue facts with such people just makes them start yelling and accusing you of making excuses for evil ol’ Church. It rarely works unless the person is a very calm, rational academic type.
 
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