What is the best argument to promote the TLM?

[tradboy]

I have been the main mover behind starting a TLM in my parish. We have a great group of people but we are struggling to grow.

What in your experience is the best argument to support the TLM?

 

[antiphrasis]

Actually, the International Society of Scholastics is offering a course on this on March 20th. You can view the schedule and a description of the course here: societyofscholastics.org/crashcourse/crash_course3_002.htm

 

[palmas85]

I have been the main mover behind starting a TLM in my parish. We have a great group of people but we are struggling to grow.

What in your experience is the best argument to support the TLM?

I would contact the Traditional Mass Society at Saint Annes Church in San Diego. This group of remarkable people kept the Traditional Mass alive and growing for many years. For a long time the Masses were held in a cemetary mauseleum chapel. The crowds got so big that there was not enough room in the Chapel and the people spilled out into the passageways amongst the tombs. A very unique experience. many people came just for the experience of that alone. Quite a few of them stayed and became regulars. We were lucky in that we had a Bishop who supported us and even celebrated some Masses there. Eventually, as the result of years and years of Rosaries requesting that we be given our own Church, we got not only a Church, but a fully traditional Parish.

Talk with the Society. They can give you very very good advice.

 

[Malleus_01]

I have been the main mover behind starting a TLM in my parish. We have a great group of people but we are struggling to grow.

What in your experience is the best argument to support the TLM?

Malleus:First spread Devotion to the 15 Mystery Holy Rosary of the Blessed Virgin Mary - St Louis Marie De Montfort method as outlined in the " True Devotion to Mary." First and foremost.

Review the “Council of Trent” and “Quo Primum” by Pope St Pius the V and encourage others to understand why this Mass was Codified and why its use will always be Valid no matter what time period the Church enters.

Be steadfast in your faith IE a good example to others .

Remember this - the Early Church grew 40% per year despite being outlawed by the Roman Empire and a death sentense on the heads of every Christian.

But in 300 years - Rome became the Holy Roman Empire. The Canon of the TLM is the same since those days.

GOD’s Grace converts the non believer and it will help your fellow Catholics see the beauty in the Traditional Rites as well.

The Church has always been successful in every age with the TLM. Including ours. By the fruits shall you know.

pax

 

[wraithx]

Actually, the International Society of Scholastics is offering a course on this on March 20th. You can view the schedule and a description of the course here: societyofscholastics.org/crashcourse/crash_course3_002.htm

Having done some of the ISS crash courses, I recommend them without hesitation. The classes are fascinating and the price ($15) is pretty unbeatable. I haven’t been able to find any other group on the net providing classes in sound Catholic doctrine with a special charism for tradition.

 

[tradboy]

Thanks Palmas85, I have heard about your chapel in San Diego.

I am interested to hear about arguments that give people reasons to come to the TLM or that explain how and why the TLM is different.

We have drawn in what I would call the natural TLM crowd.

I also find that as abuse lessens people are not driven to the TLM purely as a reaction to get away from abuses in the NO. That was what drove me from the NO many years ago. I am not sure without that push and then years of “exile” during which the TLM seeped into my soul that I would be getting up early in the morning and driving for an hour to attend the TLM.

 

[Onegin]

Malleus:First spread Devotion to the 15 Mystery Holy Rosary of the Blessed Virgin Mary - St Louis Marie De Montfort method as outlined in the " True Devotion to Mary." First and foremost.

Review the “Council of Trent” and “Quo Primum” by Pope St Pius the V and encourage others to understand why this Mass was Codified and why its use will always be Valid no matter what time period the Church enters.

Be steadfast in your faith IE a good example to others .

Remember this - the Early Church grew 40% per year despite being outlawed by the Roman Empire and a death sentense on the heads of every Christian.

But in 300 years - Rome became the Holy Roman Empire. The Canon of the TLM is the same since those days.

GOD’s Grace converts the non believer and it will help your fellow Catholics see the beauty in the Traditional Rites as well.

The Church has always been successful in every age with the TLM. Including ours. By the fruits shall you know.

pax

These are all very good suggestions, and I heartily echo the suggestion to read “True Devotion to Mary”. An excellent choice.

As for encouraging people to attend the TLM, the best argument I can think of is just to go! Give it a chance. Talking about the TLM and attending are two totally different things and until you are actually there experiencing it, you will not have a good understanding of why you should be there and what the substantive differences are.

I think of experiencing the TLM as being loosely correlated to the example of the hypothetical person who lives their entire life in a black and white room. They can obtain a PhD on the history, characteristics and nature of colour but until they see a rose or a rainbow they won’t really understand what colour means and why it is so important. So too it is with the Traditional Latin Mass.

To foster interest in your parish, why not start a parish Latin Mass Society? As part of the society’s efforts, you can read some of the excellent material that Malleus suggested or watch a short clip of a TLM like this one to introduce people to the Mass:

youtube.com/watch?v=HtaPaQwSQPA

Many people who are interested in tradition and the TLM simply haven’t been exposed to it - they don’t know what they are missing. For those of us who do know about it, we have the duty to share this with others! The interest will not create itself, you need to encourage and make available opportunities for people in your parish to learn about the TLM. If you have a parish Priest who is willing to support you in these efforts then you are already off to a great start! Start out by hosting a TLM “question and answer” session. Bring a few video clips, a missal, some book suggestions and be prepared to answer a lot of questions! People are curious and they’ll want to know why the TLM is different from what they are used to, why the Priest faces away from them, why there is chanting during the prayers, what the people are supposed to do, whether they are supposed to know Latin, how to follow along in the Missal, etc etc. Again, if your Priest is favorable to tradition and is willing to help, so much the better!

Remember, Tradition isn’t just about the TLM. Give people opportunities to learn about the whole richness of Catholic tradition and the rest will follow.

 

[antiphrasis]

Tradboy,

I, too, am interested in hearing *convincing *arguments regarding the differences between the two forms of the Mass. All too often, one hears praise for either the Ordinary or the Extraordinary form of the Mass simply because it “feels good.” It really is hard to counter or even discuss on that level because feelings are so subjective.

 

[tradboy]

Many people who are interested in tradition and the TLM simply haven’t been exposed to it - they don’t know what they are missing. For those of us who do know about it, we have the duty to share this with others!

Thanks for those suggestions, we already do a lot of what you have suggested. We have a regular TLM. I am in a parish that has both forms of the Mass. The NO is not offered in a reform of the reform style but it is a say-the-black do-the-red Mass.

The problem is that taking that to the next level and appealing to the people who are not naturally drawn to the TLM. How do you do that? They find the TLM boring, they want external participation.

People in my parish already pray the rosary etc. I have a parish relatively free of any abuse.

Summorum Pontificum has given a lot more people access to the Mass. It has also lifted the TLM out of the ghetto and in so places put it alongside the NO mass. In this situation a few people love it, but the majority remain indifferent.

How do we reach a whole new audience of people who are not traditionally inclined, but just good Catholics? They are not hostile to the TLM they just can’t see what makes it so special. On an aesthetic level, for example, they have been brought up in the pop-culture and like the hymns of that culture. That is their tradition. So Gregorian chant isn’t decisive. They like it but they also like the Celebration Hymnal.

 

[Timothysis]

The problem is that taking that to the next level and appealing to the people who are not naturally drawn to the TLM. How do you do that? They find the TLM boring, they want external participation.

Perhaps you can discover if anyone at other parishes have expressed an interest in the TLM and can be directed to you and your group. I personally think that many, if not most, people will have no interest or desire to celebrate the TLM until they can truly learn and understand just exactly what it is. I see that as being the biggest hurdle because you then have to organize some kind of educational presentation on the TLM, though I really don’t know the answer to your question. Good luck!

 

[awatkins69]

I have been the main mover behind starting a TLM in my parish. We have a great group of people but we are struggling to grow.

What in your experience is the best argument to support the TLM?

The best argument in my book is the fact that most likely the saint who your parish is named after went only to the TLM throughout their entire lives.

 

[pro_multis]

Tradboy,

I, too, am interested in hearing *convincing *arguments regarding the differences between the two forms of the Mass. All too often, one hears praise for either the Ordinary or the Extraordinary form of the Mass simply because it “feels good.” It really is hard to counter or even discuss on that level because feelings are so subjective.

There is no more convincing argument that can be made than just going to both masses and observing. Almost like two different religions!

 

[Chatter163]

From the website of the Latin Liturgy Association:

The use of the Church’s traditional language of worship has the following important benefits:

1. It is a sacral language, associated with the single, exalted purpose of the worship of God. The use of Latin in this way should not surprise us for a sacral language is a feature of all the major world religions: classical Arabic in Islam, Sanskrit in Hinduism and, of course, Hebrew in Judaism - the language in which Our Lord would have prayed.
2. Latin helps us overcome limitations of time and place, and helps us participate in the universal reality of the Catholic Church, linking us with the generations who have worshiped before us.
3. The use of Latin in all countries and across the centuries is a powerful symbol of the Church’s unity.
4. The use of Latin enables also the use of the great liturgical music of the Church, particularly plainchant and polyphony. Vatican II said: “The treasury of sacred music is to be preserved and fostered with great care.” (Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy, 114)

 

[ProVobis]

From the website of the Latin Liturgy Association:

The use of the Church’s traditional language of worship has the following important benefits:

1. It is a sacral language, associated with the single, exalted purpose of the worship of God. The use of Latin in this way should not surprise us for a sacral language is a feature of all the major world religions: classical Arabic in Islam, Sanskrit in Hinduism and, of course, Hebrew in Judaism - the language in which Our Lord would have prayed.
2. Latin helps us overcome limitations of time and place, and helps us participate in the universal reality of the Catholic Church, linking us with the generations who have worshiped before us.
3. The use of Latin in all countries and across the centuries is a powerful symbol of the Church’s unity.
4. The use of Latin enables also the use of the great liturgical music of the Church, particularly plainchant and polyphony. Vatican II said: “The treasury of sacred music is to be preserved and fostered with great care.” (Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy, 114)

Taking the stairs sometimes can be more pleasant and scenic than taking an elevator.

 

[JustaServant]

What is the best argument to promote the TLM?

The weight of Catholic tradition
The ritual and symbolic superiority of the Old Mass
The theological magnificence of the old prayers
The poetic beauty of the old Latin in the prayers vs. the English translations.
The fabulous old offertory vs. the new and more empty offertory
The traditional canon vs. the modern Eucharistic prayers
The incredible integration of the Gregorian Chants with every Mass of the whole liturgical year vs. the abominable folk Masses and adopted Protestant hymns.

The list could go on and on.

 

[At_Trent]

Single best argument I can make is it’s novelty proof, having it’s strict rubrics, and it builds Faith. You could also point out how H.H Paul IV wept after realizing what he had signed without reading.

 

[m134e5]

What is the best argument to promote the TLM?

The ritual and symbolic superiority of the Old Mass

Talking about superiority of the old Mass will push people away from it (and would get you in trouble with your pastor, I imagine). No one likes to hear “our way is better than yours, regardless of how much you may like it, so throw your way down and join ours”.

The theological magnificence of the old prayers

That could be effective, if done so properly. That is part of what interests me about the TLM.

The poetic beauty of the old Latin in the prayers vs. the English translations.

The fabulous old offertory vs. the new and more empty offertory

The traditional canon vs. the modern Eucharistic prayers

The incredible integration of the Gregorian Chants with every Mass of the whole liturgical year vs. the abominable folk Masses and adopted Protestant hymns.

Again, you seem to be saying how great the Traditional Latin Mass is and how horrible the Novus Ordo Mass is. That’s not going to win people over who don’t agree with you. Also, not every Traditional Latin Mass has Gregorian chant- some have polyphony, and some have no chant- only hymns, and some even have no music at all. Also, not every schola sounds like the monks at Solesmes. I’ve heard some absolutely dreadful-sounding Gregorian chant at Traditional Latin Masses before. It isn’t always so good.

 

[m134e5]

You could also point out how H.H Paul IV wept after realizing what he had signed without reading.

Can you give a source that says he did this?

Personally, I think it’s best to start small. There were very devout Catholics for centuries who had nothing but the Tridentine Mass- that alone, I would think, would make it worthwhile at least to be a bit familiar with the Tridentine Mass & how people in the past became “devout”.

 

[Timothysis]

I’m sorry but I thought that the OP was asking how he and his group could help promote the celebration of the TLM at his parish, not asking the old, stale "why our mass is better than your mass…"

 

[Lujack]

I don’t think you should make your argument as the EF vs. the OF. I think you should simply make the argument that the EF should be there, and that you should argue this:

“This form of the Mass is a part of our history. It is a beautiful rite, it is deeply linked to the Catholicism of our parents and grandparents, and everyone should have the opportunity to experience it, and to attend it if you so choose. Even if you don’t plan to become a regular attendee of the Latin Mass, you should come at least once, to see what its like.”

Then you can elaborate on any aspect of it you find particularly impressive, spiritual or beautiful. That’s hard to argue against, and better yet, it won’t upset anybody who loves the OF Mass. They might even become interested in it.